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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by spud101 View Post
    That is EXACTLY my point. So WHY would we need 2 version of the OS? If we have a scalable framework on top of the OS, it takes care of the different formfactors, not the underlying OS..
    Different processors, video card, batteries, wi/fi, bluetooth and other hardware issues. Maybe software related issues also, like adding some windows support to the pad itself for greater applications.

    I would be its the hardware though. Having more processing speed in the and better battery management and better video card. Phones just don't need the same hardware that a tablet would need.
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I cannot see that happening in any way, shape or form, it makes absolutely no sense given the two day gap between the events.
    Why not? They couldn't say something along the lines of "Sprint will also be carrying a 4G webos device in 2011. HP will provide more details of this new phone at their event on the 9th."? If companies just never makes those kinds of announcements then so be it. It just seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do to me.
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    #43  
    "Sprint will also be carrying a 4G webos device in 2011. HP will provide more details of this new phone at their event on the 9th."?
    Because it blows the HP event, everyone goes away and writes "HP to launch new phone on 9th, more details to follow" - that's not great marketing, you want the press to come in and be surprised so you stage manage the event. Not have them come in and say "So this phone, what is it?"
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    #44  
    Oh ok so that's why no companies ever leak out a picture or major specs of their device before the official event announcement. It's not great marketing if the press isn't 100% surprised.
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thead View Post
    Oh ok so that's why no companies ever leak out a picture or major specs of their device before the official event announcement. It's not great marketing if the press isn't 100% surprised.
    Leaks are a different thing entirely, that will run with "rumored X" which is different from an official from another company spoiling your big event. If you think they are the same sort of thing... well...
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    #46  
    Hmm... Yeah I'm really not seeing the difference.

    "you want the press to come in and be surprised so you stage manage the event. Not have them come in and say "So this phone, what is it?""

    How is that not the same as what the press would do when they go to the official event for a phone that only scarce information has been leaked?
  7. #47  
    webOS 2.0 for phones and webOS 3.0 for tablets? I don't like it, since the future major update to webOS should be 3.0 and not 4.0.

    Better call it webOS phone 2.0 and webOS tablet 2.0 or something like that.
  8. #48  
    webOS 2 and palmPad OS 1.0
  9. #49  
    all speculation & rumors still. i still do not expect much from hp but tablet announcements, not phones let alone a superphone with 4g or lte.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    webOS 2 and palmPad OS 1.0
    As I said earlier, webOS 2.0 as a milestone for phones, and targeted to reach parity with the palmPad.

    The only reason here is Enyo, and webOS rework to include it on phones. Seems like they've done it for the tablet as start point.

    At least this is the way I see it.
    Newness Developments apps:

  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by fixxxer1022 View Post
    all speculation & rumors still. i still do not expect much from hp but tablet announcements, not phones let alone a superphone with 4g or lte.
    Given Bradley's statements in the interview video linked on the precentral front page, I think it's pretty clear Feb 9th will have a lot of webOS announcements, including smartphones and tablets.

    Gargoyle
  12. #52  
    I believe it all, except for the 2.0 / 3.0 split.

    Think about it. What happens when you get to 2.9. Do you jump to 4.0? That makes *no* *sense* *whatsoever*. I'm not sure what Google is playing at, but it's ridiculous and confusing. 2.4 comes out after 3.0? Whaaa?
  13. #53  
    It is most probably as others have said, because webos 2.0 is not ready for larger displays, but with so many mojo applications they should use compatibility libraries for them to work. So they introduce a new device and new SDK and after all the applications have been transitioned, they anounce 3.0 availability for phones without the cruft ....
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by ctbeiser View Post
    I believe it all, except for the 2.0 / 3.0 split.

    Think about it. What happens when you get to 2.9. Do you jump to 4.0? That makes *no* *sense* *whatsoever*. I'm not sure what Google is playing at, but it's ridiculous and confusing. 2.4 comes out after 3.0? Whaaa?
    They will probably merge them by 3.x

    I think 3.0 will run enyo, and once they figure out how to retire mojo.. webOS 2.x will jump to 3.x and be in uniform. I can see them having this thought process going forward. Not saying its the best but it can be done.
  15. #55  
    Enyo feels like another shortcut in a long line of shortcuts from Palm. Here are a few examples of what I mean:

    1. The infamous iTunes hijacking stunt. Palm didn't have the resources or will to build their own desktop/sync/media client, so they tried to piggyback on someone else's... without permission!

    2. The whole framework of wOS is based on the idea of existing web standards that leverage existing web developers. That sounds good on paper, but in reality, it means that they are relying on web apps over native, device specific development. "Use the language you already know to build our ecosystem" seems to be the mantra. They never really developed the SDK, thinking that web apps would be sufficient. Just ask Apple how that works out.

    3. PDK. It seems web apps are nothing more than web apps after all, and no one could figure out how to do anything meaningful with MOJO. How did Palm try to get developer support? By making an iPhone game porting system. Dress it up anyway you like. But in the end, that is all the PDK ever was. Palm gave developers a, you guessed it, shortcut. Now, they can just spend a couple of hours and, just like that, they have a wOS app. But you can't build a compelling platform on apps written for devices other than your own.

    Enyo. To add to the problem, they have to encourage development for a pad as well. If they can barely get developers to write for one platform, how are they to get them to write for two? That is where Enyo comes in. Just write for one device, and Enyo will auto-magically rewrite it for all other platforms. When all is said and done, it is still just another shortcut.

    I have been saying all along that Palm does not need shortcuts. What they need is to make a product that is compelling. It doesn't matter how challenging or proprietary the development environment is. If developers are excited by what you have produced, they will learn the language and devote the resources necessary to be a part of the platform.

    Customers will break their existing contracts and switch to a crappy carrier to get your device. Soon, you will have apps made exclusively for your device, and others will want to switch to get the functionality of your platform. No shortcuts required.

    I'm not saying that Enyo will be a bad OS. Just that it will not be a panacea for the underlying problem. I'm not interested in their roadmap, the pie in the sky vision, their underlying frameworks, or their buzzword salad. I want to see the devices that are so cool and interesting that they make me want to walk into a store and get my hands on it. If they can manage that, everything else will follow.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Enyo feels like another shortcut in a long line of shortcuts from Palm. Here are a few examples of what I mean:

    1. The infamous iTunes hijacking stunt. Palm didn't have the resources or will to build their own desktop/sync/media client, so they tried to piggyback on someone else's... without permission!

    2. The whole framework of wOS is based on the idea of existing web standards that leverage existing web developers. That sounds good on paper, but in reality, it means that they are relying on web apps over native, device specific development. "Use the language you already know to build our ecosystem" seems to be the mantra. They never really developed the SDK, thinking that web apps would be sufficient. Just ask Apple how that works out.

    3. PDK. It seems web apps are nothing more than web apps after all, and no one could figure out how to do anything meaningful with MOJO. How did Palm try to get developer support? By making an iPhone game porting system. Dress it up anyway you like. But in the end, that is all the PDK ever was. Palm gave developers a, you guessed it, shortcut. Now, they can just spend a couple of hours and, just like that, they have a wOS app. But you can't build a compelling platform on apps written for devices other than your own.

    Enyo. To add to the problem, they have to encourage development for a pad as well. If they can barely get developers to write for one platform, how are they to get them to write for two? That is where Enyo comes in. Just write for one device, and Enyo will auto-magically rewrite it for all other platforms. When all is said and done, it is still just another shortcut.

    I have been saying all along that Palm does not need shortcuts. What they need is to make a product that is compelling. It doesn't matter how challenging or proprietary the development environment is. If developers are excited by what you have produced, they will learn the language and devote the resources necessary to be a part of the platform.

    Customers will break their existing contracts and switch to a crappy carrier to get your device. Soon, you will have apps made exclusively for your device, and others will want to switch to get the functionality of your platform. No shortcuts required.

    I'm not saying that Enyo will be a bad OS. Just that it will not be a panacea for the underlying problem. I'm not interested in their roadmap, the pie in the sky vision, their underlying frameworks, or their buzzword salad. I want to see the devices that are so cool and interesting that they make me want to walk into a store and get my hands on it. If they can manage that, everything else will follow.
    Just guessing but Enyo doesn't do anything magical, but it doest let the developer set up their app for multiple screen sizes. iiF [Resolution] > x then w q y is available Else b is available at resolution c. Thats just what i got from the ENYO demo at least.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Enyo feels like another shortcut in a long line of shortcuts from Palm. Here are a few examples of what I mean:

    1. The infamous iTunes hijacking stunt. Palm didn't have the resources or will to build their own desktop/sync/media client, so they tried to piggyback on someone else's... without permission!

    2. The whole framework of wOS is based on the idea of existing web standards that leverage existing web developers. That sounds good on paper, but in reality, it means that they are relying on web apps over native, device specific development. "Use the language you already know to build our ecosystem" seems to be the mantra. They never really developed the SDK, thinking that web apps would be sufficient. Just ask Apple how that works out.

    3. PDK. It seems web apps are nothing more than web apps after all, and no one could figure out how to do anything meaningful with MOJO. How did Palm try to get developer support? By making an iPhone game porting system. Dress it up anyway you like. But in the end, that is all the PDK ever was. Palm gave developers a, you guessed it, shortcut. Now, they can just spend a couple of hours and, just like that, they have a wOS app. But you can't build a compelling platform on apps written for devices other than your own.

    Enyo. To add to the problem, they have to encourage development for a pad as well. If they can barely get developers to write for one platform, how are they to get them to write for two? That is where Enyo comes in. Just write for one device, and Enyo will auto-magically rewrite it for all other platforms. When all is said and done, it is still just another shortcut.

    I have been saying all along that Palm does not need shortcuts. What they need is to make a product that is compelling. It doesn't matter how challenging or proprietary the development environment is. If developers are excited by what you have produced, they will learn the language and devote the resources necessary to be a part of the platform.

    Customers will break their existing contracts and switch to a crappy carrier to get your device. Soon, you will have apps made exclusively for your device, and others will want to switch to get the functionality of your platform. No shortcuts required.

    I'm not saying that Enyo will be a bad OS. Just that it will not be a panacea for the underlying problem. I'm not interested in their roadmap, the pie in the sky vision, their underlying frameworks, or their buzzword salad. I want to see the devices that are so cool and interesting that they make me want to walk into a store and get my hands on it. If they can manage that, everything else will follow.
    Ok, the don't share with others your wrong opinions about the topic.

    But anyways, I'll share with you some info (mainly because someone would take your opinions as facts, or reality).

    1. They decide to go ahead, and create an unique OS can be managed without syncing. As a plus, they decide to make it compatible with iTunes because they know how to do it, there is a lot of people (don't know exactly why) use it and because of that it's a selling point. Apple allows third parties to use without permission their iTunes database (there isn't a licensing issue), to be able to use iTunes without having the same user experience as Apple products (installing third party apps, and so on). Palm decides to go a step forward and use the exact sync method that Apple uses, and Apple losses it's advantage in users' syncronization experience, so blocks it.

    2. Comparing Palm's Mojo framework to Apples webapps is like comparing gold to ****. Palm has developed a great framework for data consumption and device interaction. It isn't fully backed, but is on it's first (and last) version. I'll tell you a secret: You're using and enjoying continously webapps in your computer, and some of you ask for them as must have apps for the platform success.

    3. What's meaningful? a game? What do you think Android native apps are done? Is Android a looser in this market? The gaming technology is the same for all the ARM platforms, so do you know what? On every platform people is using the same language and the same stuff.

    4. So now is bad for the users to be able to do the same exact things with all their devices? It's bad for devs to not have to handle with resolutions? It's bad to everyone to enjoy the same experience on every device? Enyo, if well developed, it's exactly the panacea of mobile development, and the path everyone is trying to follow. Device-independent release dates and update dates, inmediate availability of apps in devices with previously unsupported resolutions, unified user interface across infinite device types, and so on.
    Newness Developments apps:

  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    Just guessing but Enyo doesn't do anything magical, but it doest let the developer set up their app for multiple screen sizes. iiF [Resolution] > x then w q y is available Else b is available at resolution c. Thats just what i got from the ENYO demo at least.
    As far as I've seen, is much more than that. (I need to se it in action, anyways, but I'll see it at MWC).

    What I've seen is a paneled UI (as every app out there) that automatically resizes it's panels and show/hide them depending on screen resolution and app focus state.

    The mail app example shows it perfectly: three panels, one with the accounts view, another one with the emails list, and another one with the read view. If the screen is large, it shows (without coding anything) all the panels. If the screen is small, it shows only one of the panels.

    So, in large devices, the app acts as a desktop email client, and in small devices, the app behaves the same as usuall (one scene to show accounts, tap on an account to enter in the mails list, and tap on an email to show the read scene.

    Obviously, there will be cases when some code is needed, but the basics are great.
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    So now is bad for the users to be able to do the same exact things with all their devices? It's bad for devs to not have to handle with resolutions? It's bad to everyone to enjoy the same experience on every device? Enyo, if well developed, it's exactly the panacea of mobile development, and the path everyone is trying to follow. Device-independent release dates and update dates, inmediate availability of apps in devices with previously unsupported resolutions, unified user interface across infinite device types, and so on.
    I will just comment on this last bit, as the rest is history for people to read about and draw their own conclusions. I stand by mine.

    As to your comment, I have only this to say; there is NO substitute for a well-written, device specific app. I have both iPhone and iPad versions of several apps. I know exactly what happens when developers try to take shortcuts. I also know exactly how different the interfaces are for the same app on different devices when they are done right. It is absolutely WORTH paying for a device specific app done right. Taking those kinds of shortcuts always devalues your product. It is not the quickest or easiest way for developers, but it is absolutely the right way for end users.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I will just comment on this last bit, as the rest is history for people to read about and draw their own conclusions. I stand by mine.

    As to your comment, I have only this to say; there is NO substitute for a well-written, device specific app. I have both iPhone and iPad versions of several apps. I know exactly what happens when developers try to take shortcuts. I also know exactly how different the interfaces are for the same app on different devices when they are done right. It is absolutely WORTH paying for a device specific app done right. Taking those kinds of shortcuts always devalues your product. It is not the quickest or easiest way for developers, but it is absolutely the right way for end users.
    Let's see what Enyo is capable, and then talk about this. You know what happens on iPhone and iPad because iOS UI can't handle different resolutions, so just rescaling an app doesn't work, as the larger screen losses utility.

    This is exactly the same on desktop computers. If the app isn't able to rescale itself properly, you get a bad user experience. And about that topic, web developers (you know, those that make webapps) knows more than anyone: they deal with this every day, not just when someone decides to launch a device with larger screen.
    Newness Developments apps:

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