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  1. #641  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Myopic!

    The reason companies like AT&T and Verizon have metered data plans is because they have phones people actually use heavily for data. The reason Palm devices get more favorable terms is because no one wants to buy them, and providers have to throw in a lot of extras to move even a few units. Sprint and T-mobile would love to get more users, and so, offer "cheap" as a selling point.
    Um, excuse me? I don't have a link right now, but if you count how many users Verizon and ATT have, and how much those customers use their data -- it's actually a less precentage then Sprint users us their data. So that means, Sprint users on averge uses their data plans more then any other user on other carriers. So I would side step what you just said. When i am done with work I will come back with a link.
  2. #642  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Um, excuse me? I don't have a link right now, but if you count how many users Verizon and ATT have, and how much those customers use their data -- it's actually a less precentage then Sprint users us their data. So that means, Sprint users on averge uses their data plans more then any other user on other carriers. So I would side step what you just said. When i am done with work I will come back with a link.

    I think he is refering to special offers like the free mobile hotspot and tethering verizon used to sell pre+ phones.

    I don't think he was saying the pre dosn't have the kinds of features that result in high network usage or anything, if thats what your worried about.

    at least I should hope not, because that wouldn't be a very sound argument.

    I think he meant, hey, the android phones sell without the added sweetness of a truly great, first time offered, desirable feature, all for free, they outsell the pre and the iphone all by there selves.


    (i added in the iphone dig, you know, for fun)



    ahhhh!

    february 9th, its a comming, and well, does anyone think we could see some kind of added features to make new devices competative/attractive that, like the pre+ are based on free carrier side services, like mobile hotspot?

    honestly, i know alot of people for whom "free" is a killer app.

    what say you? were HP to announce such a thing at the get go, is it a sign of despiration and weakness, or a sign of acknowledging a competitive market and moving to up the ante in this boiling pot of newness, by a company that understands the playing field and is strategically moving to strengthen its position.
    There are four lights.
  3. #643  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    ahhhh!

    february 9th, its a comming, and well, does anyone think we could see some kind of added features to make new devices competative/attractive that, like the pre+ are based on free carrier side services, like mobile hotspot?

    honestly, i know alot of people for whom "free" is a killer app.

    what say you? were HP to announce such a thing at the get go, is it a sign of despiration and weakness, or a sign of acknowledging a competitive market and moving to up the ante in this boiling pot of newness, by a company that understands the playing field and is strategically moving to strengthen its position.
    I don't think it matters what HP or any other manufacturer wants. Services that will use data, such as mobile hotspot, tethering, etc will be monetized by the carrier. "4G" gives the carrier an even bigger opportunity to do such things. Verizon's CEO basically said the same thing at a investor call several months back.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  4. #644  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    I think he is refering to special offers like the free mobile hotspot and tethering verizon used to sell pre+ phones.

    I don't think he was saying the pre dosn't have the kinds of features that result in high network usage or anything, if thats what your worried about.

    at least I should hope not, because that wouldn't be a very sound argument.
    Thats what I thought! Well, if thats what he meant, then scratch what I said.
  5. #645  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Thats what I thought! Well, if thats what he meant, then scratch what I said.
    That's what I meant.
  6. #646  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Myopic!...
    The reason companies like AT&T and Verizon have metered data plans is because they have phones people actually use heavily for data. The reason Palm devices get more favorable terms is because no one wants to buy them, and providers have to throw in a lot of extras to move even a few units. Sprint and T-mobile would love to get more users, and so, offer "cheap" as a selling point.
    The Evo is an interenet heavy devices, as much so as any device Verizon currently sells. The Evo (and other Android devices) are doing fairly well on Sprint.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...I'd say your argument is baseless.
    So, while it is a nice idea to have everything in the cloud for access by any mobile device, the reality is that for the foreseeable future, you will be paying your carrier a nickel everytime you view your cloud-based photos and listen to your cloud-based music.
    How do you state "for the foirseeable future", when in fact, I currently have an unlimited data plan?
    Did you know there was once a time when people had to pay for each phone call, and even more recently, a time when they had to pay to call outside their area.

    As customer demands change, and competition changes, things like that change.
    Last edited by hparsons; 01/15/2011 at 07:07 PM.
  7. #647  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The Evo is an interenet heavy devices, as much so as any device Verizon currently sells. The Evo (and other Android devices) are doing fairly well on Sprint.

    I'd say your argument is baseless. No big surprise there though.
    You are too impaired to drive if you think the EVO on Sprint is remotely equivalent to the iPhone on AT&T. In the smartphone/carrier pool, Sprint is still on the shallow end.
  8. #648  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    I think he is refering to special offers like the free mobile hotspot and tethering verizon used to sell pre+ phones.
    ....
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That's what I meant.
    How in the world can you make that claim? That was nothing close to what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Myopic!

    The reason companies like AT&T and Verizon have metered data plans is because they have phones people actually use heavily for data. The reason Palm devices get more favorable terms is because no one wants to buy them, and providers have to throw in a lot of extras to move even a few units. Sprint and T-mobile would love to get more users, and so, offer "cheap" as a selling point...
    That's what you said...though the bold emphasis was mine.

    The facts though, don't bear out your claims. First of all, Palm devices don't get "favorable terms", the Everything Data plans are not only available for other internet connected devices, they are required.

    As a matter of fact, one of the complaints from Sprint/Palm users early one was that they were being required to adopt one of the everything data plans.

    Please, if you're going to speculate, at least base your speculation on reality. Palm devices aren't "favored". The Evo sells very well. Sprint required the everything data plan on virtually all of their smartphones, and it's available for literally all of their smartphones, including the Evo, which they are having no problem selling.
  9. #649  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You are too impaired to drive if you think the EVO on Sprint is remotely equivalent to the iPhone on AT&T. In the smartphone/carrier pool, Sprint is still on the shallow end.
    You are too impaired to drive if you think I said anything similar to that. As a matter of fact, I specifically mentioned "any device Verizon currently sells". Is the iPhone available on Verizon? Did I mention anything about AT&T? Am I using words too big for you? I suspect your response was "prepared" before you actually read what I wrote.
  10. #650  
    Guys: Enough arguing between you two. Can we please get this thread back on topic? Thanks.
    Blaize, Mistress of Verbosity



    Be nice until it's time to not be nice.--Dalton, "Roadhouse"
  11. #651  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    I don't think it matters what HP or any other manufacturer wants. Services that will use data, such as mobile hotspot, tethering, etc will be monetized by the carrier. "4G" gives the carrier an even bigger opportunity to do such things. Verizon's CEO basically said the same thing at a investor call several months back.
    sure the carriers will monotize, but it is clear that the "partnership" between cariers and manufacturers can result in special deals/plans/services for the end user.

    I am wondering if those types of things could be part of the feb 9th announcments and what form could they take, or what form would peak your interest?

    even just hypothetically.
  12. #652  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That's what I meant.
    All right bud!

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You are too impaired to drive if you think the EVO on Sprint is remotely equivalent to the iPhone on AT&T. In the smartphone/carrier pool, Sprint is still on the shallow end.
    I just had to say, the EVO is the first phone that goes hand to hand to the iPhone. Usually the new phones that come out before the new iPhone, the iPhone completely beats down the competition. With the EVO, the iPhone 4 didn't surpass but caught up. Feature by feature compared the EVO stacks up. Its main downfall is with battery life, however most EVO users are ok and learn to live around it. And don't make me mention the EPIC 4G, the single best Samsung phone ever.
  13. #653  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    I just had to say, the EVO is the first phone that goes hand to hand to the iPhone. Usually the new phones that come out before the new iPhone, the iPhone completely beats down the competition. With the EVO, the iPhone 4 didn't surpass but caught up. Feature by feature compared the EVO stacks up. Its main downfall is with battery life, however most EVO users are ok and learn to live around it. And don't make me mention the EPIC 4G, the single best Samsung phone ever.
    I wasn't saying the EVO wasn't a good phone. I've never used one, but according to the people who have, it seems like a great phone. I have no reason to doubt them. I wasn't comparing the phones, but the impact of the phones on their carriers. For sheer volume, the EVO using data on Sprint is nothing like the iPhone using data on AT&T, and soon to be Verizon.

    Sprint and T-Mobile's pricing plans is a poor metric for whether or not accessing everything from the cloud on a mobile device is a good idea. Sprint and T-Mobile execs will sell their parents into slavery for a few extra subscribers. They do not have a realistic, longterm pricing strategy for a 100M customers suddenly accessing all of their information from their phones and tablets. No one does, not even AT&T and Verizon.
  14. #654  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    sure the carriers will monotize, but it is clear that the "partnership" between cariers and manufacturers can result in special deals/plans/services for the end user.
    Um, I don't know. Metro PCS customers buying the Samsung Android phone on MPCS probably wouldn't think that these "partnerships" produce useful special deals/plans for them. Charging extra for Facebook, Youtube, Netflix usage. That is where we're heading.

    It just seems like no matter what kind of "partnership" there is, it'll never benefit the customer bc your carrier of choice will try to nickle and dime the crap out of you.


    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    I am wondering if those types of things could be part of the feb 9th announcments and what form could they take, or what form would peak your interest?

    even just hypothetically.
    I'm not expecting to hear of any partnership deals that would peak my interest. I just don't want to hear that AT&T has lowered data cap usage with the introduction of it's new HP devices. AT&T and no other carrier will allow me to tether for free or give you free mobile hotspot.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  15. #655  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I wasn't saying the EVO wasn't a good phone. I've never used one, but according to the people who have, it seems like a great phone. I have no reason to doubt them. I wasn't comparing the phones, but the impact of the phones on their carriers. For sheer volume, the EVO using data on Sprint is nothing like the iPhone using data on AT&T, and soon to be Verizon.
    That doesn't explain why Verizon is metering service though. You did hit it right in part of what you said - Sprint doesn't because they want to attract customers. Which is also why Verizon is well known for "buy one get one", they want the customers. As a matter of fact, that's why every company offers the deals they offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Sprint and T-Mobile's pricing plans is a poor metric for whether or not accessing everything from the cloud on a mobile device is a good idea. Sprint and T-Mobile execs will sell their parents into slavery for a few extra subscribers. They do not have a realistic, longterm pricing strategy for a 100M customers suddenly accessing all of their information from their phones and tablets. No one does, not even AT&T and Verizon.
    AT&T and Verizon both are advocating phones that rely heavily on internet connectivity. It's unrealistic to turn around and pretend that they have no interest in phones that rely on the internet, and use it extensively.

    I don't offer Sprint's pricing option (or anyone's for that matter) as a metric for whether or not accessing from the cloud on a mobile device is a good idea.

    I offer the devices. They do it. They do it for a reason. They are being requested, and even required, to do it more and more.

    The carriers that can't keep up will encourage users to use alternate connectivity (WiFi) or upgrade their systems (4G); but regardless of how individual carriers deal with it, it's obvious that connectivity is becoming more and more of a "needed" feature, and cloud content will come with the increased demand and availability.

    The companies that get in on it now will be ahead of the game. Those that don't, will be playing catch up in the months and years to come.

    The February event will involve a lot of things, but it will involve news about cloud services from HP.
  16.    #656  
    Guys... enough with the back and forth arguing. Please stay on-topic - if you can't please move on to another thread. Last warning before posts get deleted and infractions issued. Thanks
  17. #657  
    I'm always psyched to see there are new posts in this thread. Then I come and read them... I guess I'm lucky I get paid to tolerate the children I have to tolerate at work.
  18. #658  
    Back on topic. I think the announcements at this event will be huge.

    • I expect the dates for the release of WebOS 2.0 for last gen hardware to be revealed.


    • I expect them to demonstrate webOS devices in at least 3 form factors, all running a version higher than 2.0.

    Of course, one of those form factors will be the tablet.

    • they'll demonstrate how different webOS device can communicate with each other


    • They'll announce that the newest phone hardware will be available before the end of the month for all major US carriers, if not in stores, then through the HP online store.


    • They'll announce improved cloud management tools for both enterprise and consumer use. They'll demonstrate a desktop client that can be used to manage you're palm profile, files, and music OTA.


    • The event will mark the beginning of a gigantic marketing blitz.


    • They will announce partnerships with a number of key application developers


    i had more, but started forgetting things as i typed.. I believe HP understands that they need to "go hard or go home" and they will deliver.
  19. #659  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    Back on topic. I think the announcements at this event will be huge.

    • I expect the dates for the release of WebOS 2.0 for last gen hardware to be revealed.


    • I expect them to demonstrate webOS devices in at least 3 form factors, all running a version higher than 2.0.

    Of course, one of those form factors will be the tablet.

    • they'll demonstrate how different webOS device can communicate with each other


    • They'll announce that the newest phone hardware will be available before the end of the month for all major US carriers, if not in stores, then through the HP online store.


    • They'll announce improved cloud management tools for both enterprise and consumer use. They'll demonstrate a desktop client that can be used to manage you're palm profile, files, and music OTA.


    • The event will mark the beginning of a gigantic marketing blitz.


    • They will announce partnerships with a number of key application developers


    i had more, but started forgetting things as i typed.. I believe HP understands that they need to "go hard or go home" and they will deliver.
    while i do love an internet squabble between HPar and the danB, I love a gadget speculation thread even more.

    this is a nice post to get us back to the latter.

    I think an ace in HP's sleeve you touch on here, but isn't super exciting to most folks in the consumer space, is the enterprise reach that HP has, they are a market-leading force, and there can be no debate on that fact.

    I see HP as having huge potential of integrating some services in an ecosystem for enterprise.

    for example, they do an absolute tonne of work in this countries larges industry, healthcare. they already have great penetration with current tablets, and lots of custom software for that extremely profitable, high tech, industry.

    I don't know how to properly emphasize how strong a case could be made for large multi-million dollar healthcare systems that are looking to go EMR that an integrated ecosystem from HP, with webOS as a UI underpinning could be.

    I see soooo many posibilities, a card per patient, always updated on a tablet, stacked by my patients, or in whatever order makes sense, updated constantly, communicating with other providers like nursing, Physical therapy, consults.

    moreover, the messaging! the messaging! oh what HP could do to streamline efficiency.

    In my dream there is integration for the patient as well, giving them greater control and knowledge of there care, creating a healthcare "team" so to speak.

    and all with the flexibility of programing frameworks and tools that allow relative lay persons (myself for a real world example) to personally create applications taylored to the specific needs they encounter regularly.


    sorry i get excited, but its not just HP or webOS that excites me, its the idea of technology getting the hell out of the way, and becoming a tool, like my stethoscope, to help patient care, not direct it.

    oh an incase annyone is doubting the importance of healthcare in the smartphone arena

    two questions
    what is the number one smartphone in north america?
    where did they get there start

    if you answered blackberry and as an advanced pager for healthcare you are correct.

    also, while I'm blabbing, i want HP to buy roku integrate webOS into that sweet little box. not unlike appleTV, but with the superior content Roku provides (like MLB and NBA games, amazon, huluplus, ect)


    also, a laser, somehow
    There are four lights.
  20. #660  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    ...
    two questions
    what is the number one smartphone in north america?
    where did they get there start

    if you answered blackberry and as an advanced pager for healthcare you are correct.
    ...
    Very good observation. And here's something that could work, and should cause every phone mfg out there to worry (and I don't doubt they're already thinking about it)...

    Let's say HP develops a system that allows WebOS based smartphones to be securely deployed in the corporate space. Said phone would, of course, tie in to HPs ecosystem that they are no doubt developing (and likely readying for deployment) as we speak.

    Then, let's say they make at least one low end WebOS phone that has all of the basic features needed, and runs on that eco system.

    And then they gave away that phone with every corporately purchased HP printer, PC, or server.

    I'm not saying that's going to happen, but that's the type of reach that HP has with their established supply lines.

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