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  1. #581  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Oh, come on. That was not negative. Your vision involves everyone having all of their data, music, videos: their entire computing life in the cloud. That requires persistent, ubiquitous broadband, which very few people have.

    Sure, Apple has services that require broadband, but not everything. Companies have to move slowly into this brave, new, connected world, less they leave most of the people behind. And I'm sure you are aware of Apple's billion dollar data center in SC that will come online any day. We could speculate for pages about what they will do with that. I don't because we don't have enough information about it.

    If you and HP do not care about the majority of users, and are after a small niche who are comfortable with everything being in the cloud, and who have the infrastructure to make it work, great. But I happen to believe they will introduce something a little more down to earth than that. They will start out with a modern smartphone, and a PalmPad companion device. You have to have a product people want to buy before you can sell them an intricate ecosystem.
    OK, that explains things better.

    But, I disagree, of course. There is no need for "persistent, ubiquitous broadband". The type of "sometimes there, sometimes not" connectivity already exists in the corporate world. I'm working on a project right now that does real time synchronization of files from remote sites, unless the WAN connection goes away. In those instances, the information is cached to a local server, and then resynced when the connection is restored.

    Not only could such a system be easily implemented for a client/cloud situation, but it already is (to a limited degree) on the Pre now.

    When I modify a Google contact on my Pre, that modification is sent to my Google account - unless I don't have connectivity. In that case, when I get connectivity, the system updates Google.

    There's no reason why that same type of system couldn't be applied to other (virtually any) service. It just takes cooperation between the client side and the host. Of course, if the client and host are owned by the same company, that cooperation is easier.

    Enter HP.
  2. #582  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Huh? Either I'm not understanding your meaning, or you are simply incorrect. What do you mean that "most of America does not have broadband connection"

    I live in one of the more rural states (in landsize), and there are very few areas here that don't have broadband connectivity, and most people take advantage of it.
    i think with the definition of broadband (like the definition of 4g) being higher than most people subscribe too, most people in this country do not have broadband.

    for example, I had a "broadband" connection but was paying the lowest tier so received 1.5mb per second, which is technically not broadband. this caused problems for me when I received a roku and wanted to stream HD content, and so I negotiated with them to upgrade my speed (lucky me I am not paying more!) so in that sense there is not a predominance of broad band.

    however, most people in this country do have access to the internet, and at speeds faster than dial-up.

    weather the infrastructure is there too support true broadband speeds for most of the country is debatable, but not unlikely. Add to this the idea that 3g can support 3mbs speed (broadband) and given that 4g is rolling out I think a connected cloud service is not unthinkable. certianly not a "fantasy"


    but the bigger point that seems to be missing is, HP is a global company, and there are hundereds of millions of people with broadband access already out there buying tech to go along with it.

    yes hunderds of millions because, as far as internet speeds go, there are you know, other countries besides the USA

    HP's announcment on feb 9th will have to do with them as well, and so speculation on the capabilities they enjoy is not at all unreasonable.
    There are four lights.
  3. #583  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Huh? Either I'm not understanding your meaning, or you are simply incorrect. What do you mean that "most of America does not have broadband connection"

    I live in one of the more rural states (in landsize), and there are very few areas here that don't have broadband connectivity, and most people take advantage of it.
    But is it sufficient enough broadband? I know several people that have cable Internet but have the slowest tier which literally, isn't capable of streaming HD video from Netflix. Not even 2Mbps is sufficient for a lot of things these days.
  4. #584  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    OK, that explains things better.

    But, I disagree, of course. There is no need for "persistent, ubiquitous broadband". The type of "sometimes there, sometimes not" connectivity already exists in the corporate world. I'm working on a project right now that does real time synchronization of files from remote sites, unless the WAN connection goes away. In those instances, the information is cached to a local server, and then resynced when the connection is restored.

    Not only could such a system be easily implemented for a client/cloud situation, but it already is (to a limited degree) on the Pre now.

    When I modify a Google contact on my Pre, that modification is sent to my Google account - unless I don't have connectivity. In that case, when I get connectivity, the system updates Google.

    There's no reason why that same type of system couldn't be applied to other (virtually any) service. It just takes cooperation between the client side and the host. Of course, if the client and host are owned by the same company, that cooperation is easier.

    Enter HP.
    Dropbox?
  5. shloime's Avatar
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    #585  
    [QUOTE=dandbj13;2824990]Oh, come on. That was not negative. this and EVERY OTHER POST OF YOURS is not negative????. i am not going to laugh,but, can you ask anyone in your family or friends to read each and every one of your posts in here and ask them HONESTLY if they are not negative?
  6. #586  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    But is it sufficient enough broadband? I know several people that have cable Internet but have the slowest tier which literally, isn't capable of streaming HD video from Netflix. Not even 2Mbps is sufficient for a lot of things these days.
    Obviously, those folks would not be using the streaming capabilities of a could service. I don't think they'll miss it though, since they're not streaming now.
  7. #587  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Dropbox?
    I don't think Dropbox works the way I just described. If I open a contact on my computer, does it update somewhere in Dropbox?
  8. Traxion's Avatar
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    #588  
    You guys are throwing around the term "Broadband" which is nothing other than internet access at a high rate. The word broadband has been around since ISDN and commonly used to mean internet thats always on. No dialup.

    I think the term you guys are looking for is bandwidth. And yes it does take quit a bit of bandwidth to accomplish such a feat as working in a cloud to the extent that some of you guys are talking about.
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  9. #589  
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxion View Post
    You guys are throwing around the term "Broadband" which is nothing other than internet access at a high rate. The word broadband has been around since ISDN and commonly used to mean internet thats always on. No dialup.

    I think the term you guys are looking for is bandwidth. And yes it does take quit a bit of bandwidth to accomplish such a feat as working in a cloud to the extent that some of you guys are talking about.
    I think much of what people are discussing is that the definition of "broadband" in common vernacular and by various bodies, is not well defined, and is an evolving number, increasing over time.

    heres a nice little article from wikipedia illustrating the difficulty using that term specifically

    Broadband Internet access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I suppose the definition I would say is required for the most intensive of what is being discussed here is the ability to stream HD content. in that case l would say most people don't have that access yet, but enough do that services and devices tailored to take advantage of that is something HP might be looking at, and announcing on the 9th.
    There are four lights.
  10. #590  
    If you want the Verizon's of the world to embrace and market your products, give them a product that entices the consumer to seek out and upgrade to broadband.
  11. #591  
    [QUOTE=shloime;2825303]
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Oh, come on. That was not negative. this and EVERY OTHER POST OF YOURS is not negative????. i am not going to laugh,but, can you ask anyone in your family or friends to read each and every one of your posts in here and ask them HONESTLY if they are not negative?
    My friend, I would love to ask my family and friends to evaluate my posts, but none of them would understand the subject matter. That's why I'm stuck with you. We may be on different sides of an argument, but at least we understand each other, sort of.
  12. Traxion's Avatar
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    #592  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    I think much of what people are discussing is that the definition of "broadband" in common vernacular and by various bodies, is not well defined, and is an evolving number, increasing over time.

    heres a nice little article from wikipedia illustrating the difficulty using that term specifically

    Broadband Internet access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I suppose the definition I would say is required for the most intensive of what is being discussed here is the ability to stream HD content. in that case l would say most people don't have that access yet, but enough do that services and devices tailored to take advantage of that is something HP might be looking at, and announcing on the 9th.
    But it still all comes down to one thing in specific.... bandwidth. According to the term "broadband" referenced in the article... its meaning will change as bandwidth increases. So in other words, bandwidth apparently defines the term broadband.... which is for lack of a better word... ignorant.

    I still stand behind broadband being the delivery, and bandwidth being the speed its delivered at.
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  13. #593  
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxion View Post
    But it still all comes down to one thing in specific.... bandwidth. According to the term "broadband" referenced in the article... its meaning will change as bandwidth increases. So in other words, bandwidth apparently defines the term broadband.... which is for lack of a better word... ignorant.

    I still stand behind broadband being the delivery, and bandwidth being the speed its delivered at.
    yea it's a real word salad

    hopefully the event on the 9th will have as much real products as they do "fancy five dollar words"

    god knows I don't want to hear anyone say "magical" do describe a pre jumbo or something.
  14. Traxion's Avatar
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    #594  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    yea it's a real word salad

    hopefully the event on the 9th will have as much real products as they do "fancy five dollar words"

    god knows I don't want to hear anyone say "magical" do describe a pre jumbo or something.
    Im afraid to cross my fingers...
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
  15. #595  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Oh, come on. That was not negative. Your vision involves everyone having all of their data, music, videos: their entire computing life in the cloud. That requires persistent, ubiquitous broadband, which very few people have.

    Sure, Apple has services that require broadband, but not everything. Companies have to move slowly into this brave, new, connected world, less they leave most of the people behind. And I'm sure you are aware of Apple's billion dollar data center in SC that will come online any day. We could speculate for pages about what they will do with that. I don't because we don't have enough information about it.

    If you and HP do not care about the majority of users, and are after a small niche who are comfortable with everything being in the cloud, and who have the infrastructure to make it work, great. But I happen to believe they will introduce something a little more down to earth than that. They will start out with a modern smart phone, and a PalmPad companion device. You have to have a product people want to buy before you can sell them an intricate ecosystem.
    I was not talking about all service that Apple does. If your talking about that, look at what HP does right now without the need of "broadband" as you call it. However, my original reply was replying to your reply, which originally was the topic of the one below. I have it quoted for your convenience. That post was talking about how amazing it IS that you can stream your movies from your iPhone or iPod or iPad to your iTV. First off, iTV you need broadband connectivity for all of it's features (aka -- streaming netflix, youtube, and even downloading HD movies from you PC/Mac to your iTV). In that instance, we were discussing that those users -- with broadband connectivity -- could automatically have this access to their movies without their devices in the same house. Your wife has the only copy of a movie you rented? No problem. With the cloud, you can stream it via your webOS enabled TV (assuming they go that far -- which, since Apple has their iTV, and Google has their TV, HP TV will probably happen in some form).

    And of course HP won't forget about every user. But yes, not every user will be able to us ALL features -- just like not every Apple user can use their iTV, or every user can not use Google TV. I mean, I can never use Google TV -- it's for dish or cable, and I have DirecTV (soon Uverse).

    Anyway thats all folks!

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post


    How do you get much simpler than that?
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Most of America does not have a broadband connection. Where is all this magical infrastructure going to come from?
  16. #596  
    Sure, I get that. But I was responding to your suggestion that everything would be in the cloud with no need for syncing. Everything would reside on HP's servers. That is a different animal. Everything I have resides locally on my devices.

    Obviously, I need broadband to stream Netflix and Hulu+. But I'm not ready to place my documents, music, movies, and photos on HP's server as the main way I access them. There will always be a problem with latency. And the cost of the mobile data usage would be too high. Do you really want the meter running every time you want to listen to some music on the bus? Me either.

    Therefore, I think we are doing the best we can with existing solutions like Dropbox, Netflix syncing, iBooks and Amazon Whisper Sync, AirPlay and DNLA solutions, and so on.

    Here is the scenario I think you are describing. I am working on a document on my laptop, in my office. Without syncing that work to anything, I pull out my phone and make a few edits on the way home. I get home, and again without any syncing, I continue working on that same document from my home computer.

    If that is what you are describing, that is twenty years in the future. Otherwise, HP will just be reinventing the solutions we already have. Instead of Dropbox, you will have to sign up for an HP equivalent. Instead of TV, you will have to buy an HPTV. AirPlay becomes HPlay. AirPrint becomes HPrint. iTunes becomes the Synergy desktop client. MobileMe becomes Synergy Cloud Services. That's great for wOS users, but from the perspective of a tech watcher, it's not very interesting. I guess we will have to wait and see.
  17. #597  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Sure, I get that. But I was responding to your suggestion that everything would be in the cloud with no need for syncing. Everything would reside on HP's servers. That is a different animal. Everything I have resides locally on my devices.
    I think you are misusing the term sync. The data we are talking about is not sync'ed, it's pulled real time (unless there is an interruption in the connection).

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Obviously, I need broadband to stream Netflix and Hulu+. But I'm not ready to place my documents, music, movies, and photos on HP's server as the main way I access them. There will always be a problem with latency. And the cost of the mobile data usage would be too high. Do you really want the meter running every time you want to listen to some music on the bus? Me either..
    For those that don't want to store in the cloud, there will be the option not to (that already exists, many on here don't use Google Contacts as their primary address list, or even as an address list at all). The type of Synergy we're talking about would allow users to choose what they want in the cloud, and what they don't. Both storage methods have advantages and disadvantages; however, devices that don't have that ability won't offer their customers a choice.

    As far as data usage, many of us don't care. We aren't metered.

    Is that another one of those pesky problems for iPhone users?
  18. #598  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...Here is the scenario I think you are describing. I am working on a document on my laptop, in my office. Without syncing that work to anything, I pull out my phone and make a few edits on the way home. I get home, and again without any syncing, I continue working on that same document from my home computer.

    If that is what you are describing, that is twenty years in the future. Otherwise, HP will just be reinventing the solutions we already have. Instead of Dropbox, you will have to sign up for an HP equivalent. Instead of TV, you will have to buy an HPTV. AirPlay becomes HPlay. AirPrint becomes HPrint. iTunes becomes the Synergy desktop client. MobileMe becomes Synergy Cloud Services. That's great for wOS users, but from the perspective of a tech watcher, it's not very interesting. I guess we will have to wait and see.
    No sir, it is not "twenty years into the future".
    I can very nearly do that right now, using Google Docs. It is literally weeks in the future.

    The problem you are describing with all these services is that there is no OS that is designed to use those services invisibly. WebOS is well on the way. Each of the current added services (Facebook, Google Contacts & Calendar, LinkedIn) work because the OS is designed for them to work. Yes, you have to sign up for them, but the ease of use is built in to the OS.

    In one example that was given on here, a guy's Palm Pre was stolen. Uploading to Facebook was so simple that the girl that stole it didn't realize she was uploading to his FB when she shot a video of herself and uploaded it.
  19. #599  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't think Dropbox works the way I just described. If I open a contact on my computer, does it update somewhere in Dropbox?
    If the contact file is setup to by sync'ed with Dropbox, yep. Dropbox can sync practically anything across infinite amount of computers.
  20. #600  
    Looks like I'm going to the Feb 9 event: http://cl.ly/40uP/Screen_shot_2011-0...4.04.55_PM.png

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