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  1. #561  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is meaningless, corporate gibberish. What does that mean?

    You talk about extending Synergy, but say it is not about syncing.
    <<Lot's of stuff removed for brevity>>

    Tell me more.

    OK. Let's keep it simple and explain "the vision" which a number of us believe will be HP/Palm's path:

    Let's say you go buy the new shiny Palm SupeDuper. It's a nice 3.7" slab with a slide out keyboard. And it has this new form of total Synergy incorporated in the phone. You get home and the phone comes with a disk that has a Windows/Mac/Linux program from HP/Palm - we'll call it PCSynergy. This little application installs then it asks for your Palm profile. You enter it. Now it comes up with a simple file exploring interface from which it asks "What folders do you want to share with your webOS enabled devices?" You select your movie, music, and document folders. After a little churn and burn, the app states that you are now connected. Low and behold, you open QuickOffice on your Palm SuperDuper and find that it shows all of your Office documents that are on your PC. You open the music player, and it lists every song you have on your PC. Same with the video player and your movies. You open the file, and after a brief wait, with the OS telling you that it is now retrieving your file, the document or media file is now available to you.

    Next day, you win $500 on a lottery scratch-off ticket and decide you want that new palmPad. You get it, sign in to your Palm Profile, and, miracle of miracles, your palmPad, just like your phone, now has access to all the files you've allowed to be shared through the cloud. Then you receive a gift from your parents or significant other...a brand new HP television powered by webOS. Oh...and get this...over your wifi it connects directly to that application running on your PC. It also signs in to your Palm Profile and can be used to show caller id for you incoming cell calls, as well as pull up contacts, faceboook directly linked to your profile and friends, and can even connect to your phone to show videos and pictures that you made with it.

    Oh wait, you didn't get a HP TV? Perhaps you instead picked up a webOS powered Media Streaming box that connects to your Panasonic, Vizio, Samsung, Sony, et al, TV and does the same thing mentioned above.

    Now imagine this same experience in the enterprise with enterprise level security and encryption, giving you the ability to hook up to the corporate shares based on your Palm business profile, allowing you access to just the content you have access, and to do so from your phone, your webOS netbook, the webOS powered TV's in the corporate conference room/s. Need to show a presentation at a meeting? Pull it up on the TV. No computer and associated cables required. And did I mention that Palm phones would be able to remote control these TV's?

    Now do you see the vision? HP has basically come out and said all of this in bits and pieces with a ton of hints thrown our way. I'd be surprised if this didn't turn out like the above.
  2. #562  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    What does that even mean? Whenever someone tries to explain HP's corporate vision for wOS, (something that HP hasn't done), it always bogs down in CEO speak, corporate gibberish. I have had enough buzzword salad to last a lifetime. Break it down for average people, you know, the people who are supposed to buy into it. What game-changing idea do you think HP is about to unleash? Give me an everyday example of why I should be excited, anyone.
    They can't. You won't be excited. It has nothing to do (directly) with Apple. As a matter of fact, if it works the way they want, you will be disappointed.
  3. #563  
    Thanks, shlemiel. Now I get it. For a while, there, I thought we were talking about realistic expectations based on the evidence at hand. After reading your post, I now realize that we are just fantasizing about what we want to happen based on our favorite sci-fi shows.

    Some of what you want is already out there and being enjoyed by users on other platforms. When they happened for us, we were excited by those developments. I do not begrudge your turn to be excited by these things. Enjoy. Just understand, they are not revolutionary, new ideas for many of us. It's yesterday's tech.

    I fully expect HP to bring wOS into the modern age. Even that expectation is pushing it for me, considering what they have been up to so far. If HP actually does something more than just iterate someone else's vision, I will be the first to acknowledge it. I hope all your dreams come true.
  4. #564  
    The issue I have with that "vision" (aside from it being 100% speculative) is that the majority of what you outlined is already possible with iOS and Android devices. Not sure how successful HP will be if they sell webOS based on the premise of "you can use it to connect to TVs and remote systems but you have less options on what software you use."
  5. shloime's Avatar
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    #565  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Thanks, shlemiel. Now I get it. For a while, there, I thought we were talking about realistic expectations based on the evidence at hand. After reading your post, I now realize that we are just fantasizing about what we want to happen based on our favorite sci-fi shows.

    Some of what you want is already out there and being enjoyed by users on other platforms. When they happened for us, we were excited by those developments. I do not begrudge your turn to be excited by these things. Enjoy. Just understand, they are not revolutionary, new ideas for many of us. It's yesterday's tech.

    I fully expect HP to bring wOS into the modern age. Even that expectation is pushing it for me, considering what they have been up to so far. If HP actually does something more than just iterate someone else's vision, I will be the first to acknowledge it. I hope all your dreams come true.
    thank you for the broho(blessing). i also hope all your dreams come true...only one question: who's shlemiel?
  6. shloime's Avatar
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    #566  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    They can't. You won't be excited. It has nothing to do (directly) with Apple. As a matter of fact, if it works the way they want, you will be disappointed.
    just the truth...
  7. #567  
    Champagne wishes and caviar dreams to al!
  8. #568  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    The issue I have with that "vision" (aside from it being 100% speculative) is that the majority of what you outlined is already possible with iOS and Android devices. Not sure how successful HP will be if they sell webOS based on the premise of "you can use it to connect to TVs and remote systems but you have less options on what software you use."
    Many of these things are possible, but they require effort, and some of these things aren't that easy or as well implemented as the vision I noted above. I'm talking about the totally seamless package for everything to be accessible from all of your devices. Edit a spreadsheet on your phone, and the changes happen live to that document. That type of thing. There is a difference between being able to do something and making a task a seamless, average Joe approachable event. See Ford's Sync for a perfect example of a technology that was possible with all kinds of third part crap, but was turned into a seamless experience any lay person could easily use and enjoy. Big difference between the two. Stop thinking like a tech person, and think like the average person that doesn't want to learn how to download a bunch of applications and learn how to hook it all together and get stuff where they want. They want it to just work. That's the vision.
  9. #569  
    Note to everyone: I am not meaning anything negative when I call someone a fan, or a naysayer. A naysayer is simply someone who is optimistic about a company. In this case, HP Palm is that company.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Stice View Post
    The point is not that these services do not exist. The point is that HP Palm will be able to bring all of these services, and more, together into a seamlessly integrated and polished experience.
    Exactly. Read on for "more of the vison". (Originally I was going to just extend, but I am tired of these naysayers -- as I am sure they are tired of us! -- and needed to through my two cents in!) You can go look at your underlined name @ the bottom to see the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Sorry, these vaporish feature speculations sound like the initial webOS idea that your phone could tell if you were going to be late to a meeting and automatically send all of the participants a message. We're still waiting for that one.

    This is the kind of idea you come up with at a brainstorming session after you take all of the undifferentiated hardware you are planning on manufacturing and try to figure out what kind of unique package you can promote. It's the same hardware as everyone else has already done but you have a special sauce that makes it unique.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just business as usual.
    Just read below.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is meaningless, corporate gibberish. What does that mean?

    You talk about extending Synergy, but say it is not about syncing. ... Tell me more.

    What have either of these companies done lately that gives you such confidence? Tell me more.

    Quote Originally Posted by spud101 View Post
    I'm really surprised how people here assume, fantasize about or simply know what to expect from HP. The scenario shloime tells is very tempting, but how much of it is his own "wishful thinking"and how much of it will be real (soon)?
    You don't truly understand what it means to be "in the cloud" do you? The problem is we fans have dreams of what WebOS could be -- then the naysayers as ex-fans tired of not getting their dreams realized. Some naysayers weren't fans and see that what we "fans" has said before didn't come true. Then again, I remember being a fan of Nintendo and being the only one who believed in it's potential. I think EGM and others regret saying the Wii would bomb, since it clearly made TONS of money and continues to do so.

    But, let me explain what I believe "in the cloud" means, and let me prove to you that companies are doing this. So, please, lend me your attention. (note to mods: I will be talking about other companies, but only because I need to show what we "fans" believe HP is going is possible -- since the post(s) above believe it's not.)

    I believe "in the cloud" means it's truly accessable everywhere. This would require your information stored in a "cloud" and not on a hard drive. Similar to Dropbox -- in fact, very close to it. The Dropbox is not made to launch applications from, though. Thats one "addition" you would have to add -- and it wouldn't be hard with an always connected world, like we live in. You would still want your core apps and music files on your computer/phone so when you have bad reception and no wifi you can still get the files and apps you need. But everything else will be "in the cloud".

    Don't think this is even possible? Look at Google for proof that it is. Look here.. This is where both Google and Apple are heading. This article is talking about specifically Google, but it wasn't too long ago Apple announced they were looking for new talent to help build the new Mac OS X Lion. Read below.

    ...We are looking for a senior software engineer to help us create a revolutionary new feature in the very foundations of Mac OS X. ... experience with developing for Internet technologies and services, and a passion for doing “really hard” things that have never been done before. ... An exceptional candidate will also have up close and personal experience with the HTTP protocol as well as other protocols layered atop it ...
    Source: Geek.com

    If this does not tell you where your iOS is going, then I don't know what to tell you.

    Now lets bring this back to HP. Lets look at this web site, we call PreCentral.net, and see what they have shown us.

    “So we’ve announced February 9th we have a broad public set of announcements, broadly about the future of webOS and the breath of products that it’ll enable.” -- Todd Bradley

    That means nothing, right? Incorrect. This means -- to break through the jargon -- that HP is about to announce why they bought WebOS. They didn't buy Palm, they bought WebOS.

    “As we think about how that enables everything from smartphones to tablets to PCs to potentially other large screen devices, we see an enormous opportunity, both for ourselves and for our customers, to get the best web experience, the best content experience, that they can.” -- Todd Bradley

    This tells me that they are, generically, going to give their customers what HP believes to be a superior product then what anyone has given thus far.

    "...we take it as the tablet is one part of that ecosystem..." -- Todd Bradley

    Defintion: ecosystem: (google "define:ecosystem") ... it talks about things working together. So, i take their ecosystem meaning smart phones, tablets, netbooks, "larger screens" (more on THAT in a moment) and you begin to see the greater picture. It's building what Apple all ready has -- an ecosystem. It's building what BlackBerry is doing with the Playbook and BB Phones. It's building what Google is having trouble building, because they do not control both hardware and software. Building a series of connected devices.

    Reporter asks, "How do you bring a device that will get ppl saying this is better then the iPad?" Bradley: "So you and I will talk about that on the 9th."

    Break through the jargon: On the 9th, we will blow your mind and I am not ready to do that yet. Why wouldn't they? Look at what Apple is doing and preparing -- if I know this, so does HP, and they don't whatever they got going on to become an Apple innovation -- they want ppl to say "Hey, HP did this first."

    "What we focus on is the connected experience..." -- Todd Bradley

    WebOS ... connected ... experience? Hmm? Whats that?

    "We are not moving away from the PC. We are moving towards connected devices. It's mobile." -- Todd Bradley.

    I mean, I could go on and on, not with just Todd Bradley but with what Ruby has said last year. Showing where they have teased us with where they are going. Before Palm had money but they weren't make enough money to spend it. They couldn't develop WebOS to it's full potential. THe focus of WebOS has been connected devices, being in the cloud, and a lot of that is being mimicked and being done by HP Palm's competition. They just didn't have the man power to do this sorta thing. It's like having an idea on how to revolutionizing hardware (PC, cars, whatever) and then having no money, resources and know how to follow through. Palm had the vision, HP has the muscle. Don't believe me? Do a quick research, see that Ruby said "HP had no mobile strategy before they bought us." What that tells me is this ... HP had one, but didn't have the time or the talent to create HP's WebOS. So they saw a company with a vision but with no money to complete it.

    And now to blow your mind. A.Stice, listen in. What if your TV was a DVR? What if, whats on your DVR is now "in the cloud" and you can get it on your phone? I mean, that sorta thing is possible. We wont see that announced this year. When Bradely mentioned large screen devices, it was kind of an afterthought and I don't think he MEANT to say it -- but it's what they see is possible. And the thing is -- with Google TV, Google could totally do that. It wouldn't be hard. The hardest part is content providers being afraid of people stealing their content -- but with TiVo syncing to your laptop so you can watch your DVRed shows on your PC -- I don't see it a stretch for HP, Apple or Google to go this route.

    ^ in fact, I believe ATT is doing this with UVerse.

    Now I am done. I guess this is my ten cents, really.

    Note to everyone: I am not meaning anything negative when I call someone a fan, or a naysayer. A naysayer is simply someone who is optimistic about a company. In this case, HP Palm is that company.
    Last edited by astraith; 01/12/2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: edited for length and content
  10. #570  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The problem with simply going with this view is that people's expectations are raised. Then when the announcement is actually made or, worse, after the device is purchased and the service contract is entered into then you get to hear the "Where is the superphone I waited for?", "I thought _____ was coming soon" or "Why didn't developers jump on board?"

    The reality is that the webOS tablet that is announced in a month is probably going to have some interesting features but may also be somewhat half-baked simply due to being a 1.0. I mean, it's probably going to be as good a tablet in 2011 as the Pre was a good smartphone in 2009 with a sparse App Catalog. Many apps will be promised but may not be ready at launch and will have to be waited for. Eventually, people will say that the first iteration of the webOS tablet was a public beta test - just like they did with the Pre.
    That is 100% true. The new devices -- not just the tablet -- are going to be a refresh of the WebOS concept and in the early stages. I think thats one reason why they are waiting so long. They need time to develop a good product and they want to protect the IP. I think Honeycomb is some what we will see. I just think HP will do it better.

    I think the features we have talked about in the forum will reach HP's product, but I believe they will also get into Android and Apple. I think MS will eventually copy what the other have done. I just hope that HP is first in bringing this type of feature set into the market place. HP is a very good company and I have always liked their products (although some are not very good). HP is a far better company then Dell. And HP is the second best computer company (for general use -- not talking gaming PC's). Second to Apple, of course.
  11. #571  
    You know what would be a little helpful, one or two leaks between now and Feb 9. iPad and iPhone 5 leaks are beginning to hit left and right:

    iPad MultiTouch Gestures:
    iPad 2 Camera: Latest iOS SDK confirms existence of iPad 2 camera
    'Find My Friends': New iOS Feature Coming: 'Find My Friends' - Mac Rumors
    AirPlay for all devices, FaceTime, etc: Apps with AirPlay, new gestures and hotspot support coming to iOS devices in 4.3

    As optimistic as I am about HP, I would love to see something, anything, between now and Feb 9.
  12. #572  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Many of these things are possible, but they require effort, and some of these things aren't that easy or as well implemented as the vision I noted above. I'm talking about the totally seamless package for everything to be accessible from all of your devices. Edit a spreadsheet on your phone, and the changes happen live to that document. That type of thing. There is a difference between being able to do something and making a task a seamless, average Joe approachable event. See Ford's Sync for a perfect example of a technology that was possible with all kinds of third part crap, but was turned into a seamless experience any lay person could easily use and enjoy. Big difference between the two. Stop thinking like a tech person, and think like the average person that doesn't want to learn how to download a bunch of applications and learn how to hook it all together and get stuff where they want. They want it to just work. That's the vision.


    How do you get much simpler than that?
  13. shloime's Avatar
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    #573  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post


    How do you get much simpler than that?
    by doing it through the cloud? like from your office to your house
  14. #574  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post


    How do you get much simpler than that?
    Not much. My 4yr old loves this. This is what wows people.

    It's just in the beginning stages.
  15. #575  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    You know what would be a little helpful, one or two leaks between now and Feb 9. iPad and iPhone 5 leaks are beginning to hit left and right:

    iPad MultiTouch Gestures:
    iPad 2 Camera: Latest iOS SDK confirms existence of iPad 2 camera
    'Find My Friends': New iOS Feature Coming: 'Find My Friends' - Mac Rumors
    AirPlay for all devices, FaceTime, etc: Apps with AirPlay, new gestures and hotspot support coming to iOS devices in 4.3

    As optimistic as I am about HP, I would love to see something, anything, between now and Feb 9.
    Yep. Coupled with the report that iPhone and iPAD lose the home button this year, Apple is definitely shifting iOS to an all-gestures, all-the-time format that will work continuously across all their devices.

    Hope HP thought of this.
  16. #576  
    Quote Originally Posted by shloime View Post
    by doing it through the cloud? like from your office to your house
    Most of America does not have a broadband connection. Where is all this magical infrastructure going to come from?
  17. #577  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Most of America does not have a broadband connection. Where is all this magical infrastructure going to come from?
    That only because 87% of the broadband sold in America is not broadband. Broadband has to be 4mbps and 1mbps upload, otherwise it's not broadband. And if you don't havebroadband internet connection, you'll probably not downloading movies on your iPhone and probably don't have an iTV, which means the same people who don't have that also couldn't use the cloud.

    Please, don't be negative all the time. When someone has a good idea, acknowledge it. Because if this happens -- you'll want to know why your iPhone can't do this.
  18. #578  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Please, don't be negative all the time. When someone has a good idea, acknowledge it. Because if this happens -- you'll want to know why your iPhone can't do this.
    Oh, come on. That was not negative. Your vision involves everyone having all of their data, music, videos: their entire computing life in the cloud. That requires persistent, ubiquitous broadband, which very few people have.

    Sure, Apple has services that require broadband, but not everything. Companies have to move slowly into this brave, new, connected world, less they leave most of the people behind. And I'm sure you are aware of Apple's billion dollar data center in SC that will come online any day. We could speculate for pages about what they will do with that. I don't because we don't have enough information about it.

    If you and HP do not care about the majority of users, and are after a small niche who are comfortable with everything being in the cloud, and who have the infrastructure to make it work, great. But I happen to believe they will introduce something a little more down to earth than that. They will start out with a modern smartphone, and a PalmPad companion device. You have to have a product people want to buy before you can sell them an intricate ecosystem.
  19. #579  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Most of America does not have a broadband connection. Where is all this magical infrastructure going to come from?
    Huh? Either I'm not understanding your meaning, or you are simply incorrect. What do you mean that "most of America does not have broadband connection"

    I live in one of the more rural states (in landsize), and there are very few areas here that don't have broadband connectivity, and most people take advantage of it.
  20. Traxion's Avatar
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    #580  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Huh? Either I'm not understanding your meaning, or you are simply incorrect. What do you mean that "most of America does not have broadband connection"

    I live in one of the more rural states (in landsize), and there are very few areas here that don't have broadband connectivity, and most people take advantage of it.
    Im gonna agree here. In 2004 broadband penetration was around 45%. Im gonna go out on a limb here and say.... its probably gone up in the last 7 years.

    Edit: Actually in 2006 it was @ 72%
    http://www.nielsen-online.com/pr/pr_060621.pdf
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.

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