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  1. #521  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    We haven't seen what they're going to introduce. HP has the capabilities and resources to do some amazing things. So why don't you hold off on making such strong statements until you see what they introduce and what the road map looks like. Unless you're more interested in repeating how much of a failure they're likely to be.
    You ask a fair question, but misguided. HP is not a start-up, neither is Palm. They have both been around for a very long time. They have both produced lots of evidence of what they are capable of. Neither have produced anything competitive in the market into which they are pouring resources.

    Palm's latest effort was the Pre 2. HP's latest effort was the Slate 500. Both products had plenty of time to be developed and prepared for the market. The Slate was in development for a long time. Balmer showed it at the last CES. HP had MS supporting the effort. After the iPad came out, they had plenty of time to refine it. There was much anticipation for it. Yet when it finally came out, it wasn't even the best Windows tablet on the market.

    None of this is ancient history. But if you want some ancient history, HP has never innovated or led the market into a new era of products and services with their great resources of money and vision. Now, you want us to believe that all of a sudden, contrary to everything we have seen from them, past and present, that HP/Palm is about to open the doors onto some brave new world of mobile computing. Sorry, that does not compute.

    I am not being gratuitously negative; I am simply reading yesterday's newspaper. There is no reason to believe HP has the ability to do any better now, than they could a few months ago. I look forward to seeing what they produce. But my expectations are tempered by the reality of who these companies are and what they have most recently produced. Your expectations are obviously informed by rosier stuff.
  2. cgk
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    #522  
    The fixation with the iphone (and to a lesser extent Android) is interesting, it shows where Palm fans would like to be - but to date we have seen no evidence that WebOS can compete at the bottom end of the market yet along the top. Surely a more realistic goal would be to try and beat Badu and WP7 before thinking about taking on the market leaders?
  3. #523  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The fixation with the iphone (and to a lesser extent Android) is interesting, it shows where Palm fans would like to be - but to date we have seen no evidence that WebOS can compete at the bottom end of the market yet along the top. Surely a more realistic goal would be to try and beat Badu and WP7 before thinking about taking on the market leaders?
    I don't think HP is trying to be the market leader for phones. I suspect their goal is much broader, that they want to be the market leader of connected systems, and that their connected systems will include phones, tablet comuters, printers, and services.

    I don't think there's any real "fixation" on either Android or IOS. They're topics of discussions here, because this is a "Pre forum", and so far, phones are the only WebOS devices we can put in our hands.

    So far.
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    #524  
    Judging from your posts hparsons you are either a very positive person or have some inside information
  5. #525  
    Quote Originally Posted by spud101 View Post
    Judging from your posts hparsons you are either a very positive person or have some inside information
    It's just between-lines reading, and keeping informed about a topic: that bring you a whole idea about what's going on.
    Newness Developments apps:

  6. #526  
    <<thread cleaned>>

    Once again, talk about the technology, not each other. Future references to the the attitudes, traits or characteristics of other members will also be deleted.
  7. #527  
    Quote Originally Posted by spud101 View Post
    Judging from your posts hparsons you are either a very positive person or have some inside information
    Or a combination of both, with the added ingredient of about 26 years in the IT business.
  8. #528  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You ask a fair question, but misguided. HP is not a start-up, neither is Palm. They have both been around for a very long time. They have both produced lots of evidence of what they are capable of. Neither have produced anything competitive in the market into which they are pouring resources.

    Palm's latest effort was the Pre 2. HP's latest effort was the Slate 500. Both products had plenty of time to be developed and prepared for the market. The Slate was in development for a long time. Balmer showed it at the last CES. HP had MS supporting the effort. After the iPad came out, they had plenty of time to refine it. There was much anticipation for it. Yet when it finally came out, it wasn't even the best Windows tablet on the market.

    None of this is ancient history. But if you want some ancient history, HP has never innovated or led the market into a new era of products and services with their great resources of money and vision. Now, you want us to believe that all of a sudden, contrary to everything we have seen from them, past and present, that HP/Palm is about to open the doors onto some brave new world of mobile computing. Sorry, that does not compute.

    I am not being gratuitously negative; I am simply reading yesterday's newspaper. There is no reason to believe HP has the ability to do any better now, than they could a few months ago. I look forward to seeing what they produce. But my expectations are tempered by the reality of who these companies are and what they have most recently produced. Your expectations are obviously informed by rosier stuff.
    I see it a differently. It's not what you developed in the past that I would base the future of these new devices on. IMO, it's going to be how webOS is integrated into HP's current roadmap of devices and services. Sure we will have new devices and tablets, but it's webOS integration that's going to be the game changer. This is "The Beyond". Think of logging into your Palm profile from multiple devices made by HP or 3rd party vendors. This gives you the opportunity to access all your information from the cloud and work with it on many different devices and locations. Think beyond new hardware and start to look into how webOS is going to be a big player in cloud access using webOS as its catalyst.
  9. #529  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett92C View Post
    I just hope they don't announce just the tablet (think big) and a Pixi2 (think small). They need to announce some kind of superphone.
    whats this "superphone" u speak of, will it have laser eyes, arctic breath, can leap buildin in a single bound, and faster than a speeding bullet...sweet , i'd want one too, but ill settle for a phone that can get me through the day w/ out dying.
  10. #530  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...
    I am not being gratuitously negative; I am simply reading yesterday's newspaper. There is no reason to believe HP has the ability to do any better now, than they could a few months ago. I look forward to seeing what they produce. But my expectations are tempered by the reality of who these companies are and what they have most recently produced. Your expectations are obviously informed by rosier stuff.
    I disagree completely (big surprise, huh?)

    The facts do not bear out your claims. No, HP does not have a ton of consumer related items that have been revolutionary, but they do have some. The LaserJet line of printers no doubt changed the availability of laser printers both to businesses and consumers, and the HP claculator's were a "tool of preference" for every serious tech geek in the 70's.

    Keep in mind that only one contrary example disproves an all inclusive statement like "HP has never innovated or led the market into a new era of products and services".

    Further, the notion that "Neither (HP nor Palm) have produced anything competitive in the market into which they are pouring resources" is laughable. We're talking about the smartphone market (in part), which Palm pioneered, and the printing market (in part) which HP pioneered.

    Finally, if the "recent attempts" proved or disproved anything, the Microsoft should give up, since the Kin wasn't exactly a resounding success.

    It should be noted, Apple has had it's share of failures as well.

    So yes, if you want to concentrate on the resources and success of one company, and ignore them for another, you will come to the conclusion you have.

    That though, is hardly an unbiased view. The person to whom you were responding was making a fair statement; and though a response can be skewed negatively with facts, that doesn't mean the response isn't being skewed.

    Yes, HP had a slate device almost ready to be released. Then they bought a company that held promise with a different OS. Should it surprise anyone that they would choose another path?

    Yes, Palm had an step up version of the Pre almost ready to be released. Then they were bought out by a bigger company that had a much broader vision of what can be done, and resources to carry it out. Should it surprise anyone that they would choose another path?

    Further, should it surprise anyone that such a merger, then a change in focus should take a few weeks? Keep in mind, Android is (arguably) the new hot smartphone OS, and they took what, 5 years after their buyout to get things heated up.

    Yeah, you're going to see major things coming from HP. No, pretending it can't/won't happen won't change that.
  11. #531  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    Sure we will have new devices and tablets, but it's webOS integration that's going to be the game changer.
    I appreciate your position, but fail to see the evidence to support it. Let's say wOS is the best OS on the market. The people who sell it don't see it that way. From Verizon's iPhone page:

    "The phone that changed everything.
    Coming to America's most reliable network."


    This is relevant because it could be said that the original iPhone, though great, was on the nation's most hated carrier. iOS was good enough to overcome that major disadvantage, and become the phone that changed everything. wOS had some hardware issues, true, but could not overcome its difficulties. Only a few consider it the greatest OS, and no one considers it the one that changed everything. Integrating this OS that didn't change anything, with products made by a company that hasn't changed anything, does not equal much hope for a game-changer.

    This is "The Beyond". Think of logging into your Palm profile from multiple devices made by HP or 3rd party vendors. This gives you the opportunity to access all your information from the cloud and work with it on many different devices and locations. Think beyond new hardware and start to look into how webOS is going to be a big player in cloud access using webOS as its catalyst.
    Do you mean like MobileMe, Dropbox, or a number of other services. I don't understand how what you are describing is different from what is available, let alone, a game-changer.
  12. #532  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    "The phone that changed everything. Coming to America's most reliable network."
    That is just a marketing slogan to drum up sales to those on the fence and to reinforce the "superiority" complex iPhone addicts have. They have had similar slogans for the DROID products and other past feature phones.


    I'm sure they will have something just as good for HP's new products when they are available.
  13. #533  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    I see it a differently. It's not what you developed in the past that I would base the future of these new devices on. IMO, it's going to be how webOS is integrated into HP's current roadmap of devices and services. Sure we will have new devices and tablets, but it's webOS integration that's going to be the game changer. This is "The Beyond". Think of logging into your Palm profile from multiple devices made by HP or 3rd party vendors. This gives you the opportunity to access all your information from the cloud and work with it on many different devices and locations. Think beyond new hardware and start to look into how webOS is going to be a big player in cloud access using webOS as its catalyst.
    I think dandbj13's point is that you do have to take into account the past of each of these companies simply because corporations do have a culture, and that doesn't change in a matter of months. Especially when you consider HP's recent half-baked releases (Android printer tablet, Slate, Palm Pre 2). Certainly the same board members and general strategy that they have now was in effect when the decision was made to halfheartedly release those products.

    Many here talk abstractly of "the cloud" and how WebOS is going to be a big player, but no one here has yet envisioned exactly how this is supposed to happen and in any way different than their competitors who are already miles ahead of them. Streaming music is something Apple, Microsoft, and Google are all currently working on to varying degrees (e.g. LaLa, Google Music, SimplifyMedia). And unlike HP, they have much a much bigger base of mobile device users to buy into this service they will provide. Cloud storage via 3PAR? Google has BEEN there and Apple's NC server facility is going to back their play in that arena. Video streaming/chat? Facetime and Google Talk are ahead of them already.

    So what specific actions would HP take to leapfrog the competition in this arena? I don't see it.
  14. #534  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I appreciate your position, but fail to see the evidence to support it. Let's say wOS is the best OS on the market. The people who sell it don't see it that way...
    None of the services you listed have an OS that's built to encompass them all.

    You can't see evidence of something that hasn't happened yet. That's one of the catches in "innovating". You have to do something for which there is no evidence of success.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is relevant because it could be said that the original iPhone, though great, was on the nation's most hated carrier. iOS was good enough to overcome that major disadvantage, and become the phone that changed everything. wOS had some hardware issues, true, but could not overcome its difficulties. Only a few consider it the greatest OS, and no one considers it the one that changed everything. Integrating this OS that didn't change anything, with products made by a company that hasn't changed anything, does not equal much hope for a game-changer.
    You are ignoring the fact that a lot (some would argue most) of the problems with Palms initial foray was their lack of resources. Combining an OS that was radically different and did introduce new concepts (that some, even Apple, are already copying) with a company that has the resources to do what they want, and add in the "new ideas" of integrated services - yeah, I'd say that's a receipe for "game changing".

    We shall see though.
    Last edited by hparsons; 01/12/2011 at 12:56 PM.
  15. #535  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I appreciate your position, but fail to see the evidence to support it. Let's say wOS is the best OS on the market. The people who sell it don't see it that way. From Verizon's iPhone page:

    "The phone that changed everything.
    Coming to America's most reliable network."


    This is relevant because it could be said that the original iPhone, though great, was on the nation's most hated carrier. iOS was good enough to overcome that major disadvantage, and become the phone that changed everything. wOS had some hardware issues, true, but could not overcome its difficulties. Only a few consider it the greatest OS, and no one considers it the one that changed everything. Integrating this OS that didn't change anything, with products made by a company that hasn't changed anything, does not equal much hope for a game-changer.



    Do you mean like MobileMe, Dropbox, or a number of other services. I don't understand how what you are describing is different from what is available, let alone, a game-changer.
    I am not suggesting Mobileme, Dropbox or other similar services. I am thinking more of accessing information from the cloud through a uniform webOS format. You would be able to use webOS functionality to access your information through your Palm profile. The support of webOS devs and the homebrew community keep the platform growing and expanding while patrons of the platform continue to enjoy its benefits and usability.

    This is not about competing with iOS or Android. It's about expanding webOS into enterprise ventures and personal use through products and services that already exists by HP. Money can still be made without competing directly with Apple Android or Windows. You don’t have to give consumer better options, just different ones that fit their needs.
  16. #536  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    I am not suggesting Mobileme, Dropbox or other similar services. I am thinking more of accessing information from the cloud through a uniform webOS format. You would be able to use webOS functionality to access your information through your Palm profile. The support of webOS devs and the homebrew community keep the platform growing and expanding while patrons of the platform continue to enjoy its benefits and usability.
    But the "uniform WebOS format" requires buying WebOS hardware, and you're buying it to accomplish something people already do on corporate Blackberry phones or on a personal Android or iOS device.

    This is not about competing with iOS or Android. It's about expanding webOS into enterprise ventures and personal use through products and services that already exists by HP. Money can still be made without competing directly with Apple Android or Windows. You don’t have to give consumer better options, just different ones that fit their needs.
    You don't think Microsoft, Apple, and Google are competing for cloud services in both enterprise and consumer spaces?
  17. #537  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But the "uniform WebOS format" requires buying WebOS hardware, and you're buying it to accomplish something people already do on corporate Blackberry phones or on a personal Android or iOS device.



    You don't think Microsoft, Apple, and Google are competing for cloud services in both enterprise and consumer spaces?
    You pretty much explained what I am getting at. If I want to access my information through webOS because I personally enjoy the usability of the OS, then I buy “ONE” webOS device continue to use the one I have now.

    I am also not talking about competing for cloud "services” I am merely suggesting accessing it in a format I feel most comfortable using. I can access information stored in the cloud on my MAC, PC or Android Phone. But I would rather access it from a webOS device using my Palm Profile where I have options the OS gives me that might not be available otherwise. This is where Synergy for webOS can really be a benefit. The key will be the implementation of webOS on multiple HP devices.
  18. #538  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...You don't think Microsoft, Apple, and Google are competing for cloud services in both enterprise and consumer spaces?
    I don't think either of them are offering comprehensive services that serve both communities. Certainly neither of them are offering services that adquately merge both needs.
  19. #539  
    Quote Originally Posted by ariker01 View Post
    You pretty much explained what I am getting at. If I want to access my information through webOS because I personally enjoy the usability of the OS, then I buy “ONE” webOS device continue to use the one I have now.

    I am also not talking about competing for cloud "services” I am merely suggesting accessing it in a format I feel most comfortable using. I can access information stored in the cloud on my MAC, PC or Android Phone. But I would rather access it from a webOS device using my Palm Profile where I have options the OS gives me that might not be available otherwise. This is where Synergy for webOS can really be a benefit. The key will be the implementation of webOS on multiple HP devices.
    Interesting. What options that WebOS gives you that you cannot get elsewhere are you referring to?
  20. #540  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't think either of them are offering comprehensive services that serve both communities. Certainly neither of them are offering services that adquately merge both needs.
    Not yet, no. I'm not sure anyone company ever will and get dominant marketshare with both businesses and consumers. Very different masters to serve. I guess I'm waiting to hear where HP is thinking "beyond" something the big boys are already doing. Don't feel like I've heard it yet, and I may not until the 9th.

    Here's hoping...

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