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  1. cgk
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    #841  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    she is floating the idea, here is your source, doubt bloomberg would run it wighout fact checking. Article said lane is in charge of software, meg hardware. Another bloomberg source says she is consumer. Lane is on record as liking webos.


    HP CEO Whitman Unwinds Apotheker
    Except for the fact that I've listen to the whole thing and she doesn't say what they claims. We have seen this before when it was claimed that WebOS was going to be dual-booting on PCs and nobody at HP had actually made that claim.

    I think what is confusing them is she said "coming to a town near you soon" - meaning her decision on what to do with WebOS but this has been twisted to mean actual products.
  2. #842  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Except for the fact that I've listen to the whole thing and she doesn't say what they claims. We have seen this before when it was claimed that WebOS was going to be dual-booting on PCs and nobody at HP had actually made that claim.

    I think what is confusing them is she said "coming to a town near you soon" - meaning her decision on what to do with WebOS but this has been twisted to mean actual products.
    "She said in an interview"

    This is a separate Bloomberg story, not the conference call.
  3. cgk
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    #843  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    "She said in an interview"

    This is a separate Bloomberg story, not the conference call.
    Except- to my memory (and I'm checking now), the 'interview' quotes are taken directly from the conference call.
  4. #844  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Except- to my memory (and I'm checking now), the 'interview' quotes are taken directly from the conference call.
    ??if you believe platform is dead and bloomberg is not reporting correctly, perhaps your time is better spent on forums for different platforms
  5. cgk
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    #845  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    ??if you believe platform is dead and bloomberg is not reporting correctly, perhaps your time is better spent on forums for different platforms
    I'm not sure what your point is - I've found two of the 'interview' quotes in the conference call - are you saying that Meg verbatim used the same words later in a separate interview - does that many any sense to you?

    As for the platform being dead - that's irrelevant to me as a user on a day to day basis - my touch-pad still works. There is no logic contradiction to me being a user of a device and liking that device and also thinking that the overall platform is dead over the long-term. Holding those two positions are not epistemologically incommensurable because they are in regards to different things (Belief platform is dead/experience as user of platform).
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    #846  
    Looks like Game Over to me. I'll probably get myself a Pre 3 and have a last year or two with webOS, then have a look at whats available after that.
    My apps:
    Giddy 3 | Gridword
  7.    #847  
    <threads merged>
  8. gbp
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    #848  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcedhk View Post

    But all isn't lost. Microsoft is making another go at mobile, and with Windows Phone and WIndows 8 it looks like they're really onto something this time. Microsoft will do the heavy lifting in terms of the software development and hardware specs, THOUSANDS of developers will make apps, and HP can just tweak the devices, saving a TON of money, and end up with products that will DEFINITELY sell at least as well as the webOS devices, and maybe even have a hit or two.
    Good Post,
    Except that Windows 8 will be a failure. Meg and the board are living in reality distorted world.


    • Fat margins are gone in PC business

    • Fat margins are gone in phone and tablet business except for Apple


    I cannot imagine how they want to make boatload of profits sticking to PC business or Windows 8 (which is still unknown, in terms of how the consumer receive it).

    Android is toast from Manufacture perspective. There are ACER, ASUS,Samsung,Motorola, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba....... and just about everyone making the 35 dollar tablets. Add salt to injury, Amazon is jumping with $ 199 tablet. If any company made a deviceIn spite of the competition then they have to pay the Microsoft Tax. Forget it. HP is not going the Android route.

    That leaves the Apple route, but obviously HP decided to go with Microsoft. Microsoft is scared of webOS after that webOS on every PC announcement.

    It looks like HP will fail badly in about two years on their tablet strategy.
  9. #849  
    I have been using my TBolt for 3 months. There are a few things that I miss from my Pre such as Cards and especially the real keyboard. Android as an OS is quite nice. There is a strong homebrew community that let me install a custom ROM and Kernel.With an extended battery I can last a full day with heavy use.

    The biggest advantage of Android is the wealth of applications. For any given area such as playing audio files that are dozens of good choices. I found one app that plays my audiobooks, another app for streaming Penn State Football games and a 3rd one to play my local MP3 files. There are also some excellent utilities for tethering, wireless ftp, and a nice launcher. One the greatest PalmOS apps of all times, Datebk5 has been ported to Android as Pimlical!

    So it looks like I wont be coming back to WebOS. Thanks again for all the help
    Pilot 5K->Palm IIIc->Tungsten T/T2->Treo 650/680 -> Pre+ (1.4.5 & Uberkernel)
  10. #850  
    Quote Originally Posted by ak1229 View Post
    Webos has over 2000 patents. Amazon has 5, which is why it wants to buy it.
    Except that you don't have to buy the whole webOS kit n caboodle to get the patents you want. You gut it, and carve it up like a Thanksgiving turkey, and just pay for the choice bits. Plus, does HP still retain that many patents for webOS? I'd heard that a lot of the patents were sold off already back when HP was acquiring Palm
  11. r0k
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    #851  
    I've recently updated the Palm Devises List for what is probably the last time unless Sony finds some spare change lying around and wants its own OS. Some of the best PalmOS devices were made by Sony. One can only hope...
    -r0k

    The 650 was a fine phone and was WAY more than a phone, but it's data rate was 1 bit per fortnight. The 755p was somewhat better until its instability chased me to ... wait for it... the BB 8830 From the BB 8830 I went to iPhone 4 and have never been happier. Farewell Palm. Palm Devices List (updated 10/17/2011).
  12. #852  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Good Post,
    Except that Windows 8 will be a failure. Meg and the board are living in reality distorted world.
    The thing is though, that when you're working with a company like Microsoft, even a "failure" can be something of a success. Perfect example, even those horrid Windows tablet PC that few people find appealing have a 4.6% share of the tablet market. HP has a very good shot of selling more Windows 8 tablets at regular pricing than it can sell TouchPads - even when you factor in the firesale. From a business perspective, it's a no-brainer decision.

    And don't forget - HP is the number 1 PC maker - they are already really good at getting people to buy their MS based products even on a level playing field. So it's not unreasonable of them to expect they will be king of the Windows 8 tablet manufacturers.
  13. #853  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    OP states this like this is a fact - while providing no evidence that this is true. And given the qualifications (better, better, bit more) it's actually likely that somebody would succeed.

    The assumption that nobody else besides Apple can successfully sell Tablets is outright silly.
    They are good at it and they have very nice headstart.
    Oh I don't mean that nobody can do it, I just mean that HP can't possibly do it. Not to the level that Apple can. To do that, you need more than just a great consumer focused product - you need a totally consumer focused company. At Apple, everybody from the sales rep in the Apple store right on up to the CEO is focused on coolness and the consumer experience. The whole company is like a ginormous marketing and evangelical organization. HP is not anything like that, and I don't see them becoming anything like that anytime soon.
  14. #854  
    Quote Originally Posted by Furuboru View Post
    They know about webOS/Palm's cult-like following, something that they've never had with Microsoft's OS. And this, I believe, will make them decide to keep and reinvigorate their drive towards webOS.

    I mean, that's how Apple stayed and prospered in the market right?
    To do that though, you need more than just the products. You need to transform the entire public face of the company so that it projects the image. It needs to reflected in your ads, your press releases, your product launches, your developer conferences, your spokespeople, your technicians, and your CEO needs to personify that (and lets be honest, Meg doesn't. You look at Meg, and you get the impression that she's about maximising value for shareholders, not about changing the world with revolutionary products). Apple products are runaway sellers not just because they are great, as there are other great (and some would argue better) products out there. They sell like crazy because almost every experience and interaction people have with Apple is saying "get our products and be cool like us". That's a HUGE factor, and HP is missing that.
  15. gbp
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    #855  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcedhk View Post
    The thing is though, that when you're working with a company like Microsoft, even a "failure" can be something of a success. Perfect example, even those horrid Windows tablet PC that few people find appealing have a 4.6% share of the tablet market. HP has a very good shot of selling more Windows 8 tablets at regular pricing than it can sell TouchPads - even when you factor in the firesale. From a business perspective, it's a no-brainer decision.

    And don't forget - HP is the number 1 PC maker - they are already really good at getting people to buy their MS based products even on a level playing field. So it's not unreasonable of them to expect they will be king of the Windows 8 tablet manufacturers.
    Not sure where you got those numbers , last time anyone compiled it was just 2% for Windows. I highly doubt it will be reaching double digits with Windows 8. For that single digit market share there are 10 companies fighting like dogs. HP will make money on Microsoft PCs but they will loose on tablets. Lets talk serious, the price point of the Windows 8 tablets will be around 500 dollars. And who exactly buys it over iPad/Android ?

    Lets put this way, Microsoft is making more money on Android tablets than on their own operating system. The issue is clear, HP does not want to do the hardwork that Apple did 10 years back. And guess what, nobody else want to do it either. Only Apple will survive the vertical integration.
  16. #856  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Not sure where you got those numbers , last time anyone compiled it was just 2% for Windows. I highly doubt it will be reaching double digits with Windows 8. For that single digit market share there are 10 companies fighting like dogs. HP will make money on Microsoft PCs but they will loose on tablets.
    My number was for Q2 2011, so I guess it's outdated. But even at 2% HP's decision still makes business sense. Tablet sales for 2011 are supposed to be 63 million, so 2% is 1.26 million tablets. HP commands something like 20% of the overall PC market, and so if they can sustain that for tablets that's 250,000 tablets at regular, profitable pricing. It took a firesale and a loss of something like $200 per unit for them to see those numbers with the webOS TouchPad. And the 2% market share is for the current generation of Windows tablet PC's that very few want - windows 8 tablets look more desirable, plus worldwide tablet sales as a whole will surely increase significantly in 2012, so those numbers will be higher. So what HP is doing re webOS still looks like the better decision for them in terms of black ink vs red ink.
  17. #857  
    I finally had enough! Two days ago I bought an Android phone. It was simply a matter of me shaking my head and cursing the performance of my Pre Plus (bought in April 2010, pre-acquisition by HP) one too many times.

    I really tried to like this phone, but when the opportunity came from Verizon to upgrade early and thus not have to pay $500 or more for a new smartphone, I couldn't drive to the store fast enough.

    Thank goodness I no longer have to live with:
    --Unreliable keyboard, especially those ddoublle letterrs and those skippd lttrs. It made text messaging such a frustrating exercise. What worse is how uneasy it made me feel every time I needed to use it to enter a password on a website, or whenever I needed to compose an e-mail on the Pre.

    --A touchscreen that is oftentimes unresponsive. How did Palm create such a crappy screen? With envy would I look at my friends whose phones have screens which actually register a tap! What a concept!

    --A processor that is just slooooow trying to run an OS which needs speed! The jerkiness of scrolling through screens; the time lag of tapping something and waiting for it to respond; the time it took to load apps. Ugh! WebOS is a wonderful OS! I loved it...too bad Palm didn't give it the processor support it obviously needs.

    --An app store which, by its dearth of apps, is a clear sign that developers could not envision the Pre as ever being a major smartphone player. They liked WebOS well enough, but they clearly saw that Palm as a company was not something to invest their time in.

    As a loyal Palm user since the days of the M130 I was angry with the company for daring to claim the Pre was the pinnacle of Palmhood. This was compounded by the fact that the Treo and the Centro were both such great phones, so what happened?

    In any case, finally I have a phone that is useful.
  18. #858  
    hey, welcome to android, I switched too, as I need a reliable phone for daily use. It's a matter of practicality in my busy world at work. I suggest android for anyone wanting to switch to a phone with a keyboard. Plus android's app store being open leaves a better possibility for webos apps to be ported esp if tehy open source enyo.

    But I still have my 2 TP's which can dual boot android and of the 4 pre's in my family, one pre2 is still in mint shape, so we use that on wifi + airplane mode.

    You'll miss the easy switching of apps though and blink notifications. And android apps can crash too I found out. Battery life isn't that much better necessarily.

    What phone did you get? Visit android market for what's shaking and easypulse ported to android. I'm working on techtray next.
  19. #859  
    <<threads merged>>
  20. #860  
    W8 is not a regular upgrade to the windows line.

    MS is actually taking some risks - and they have to.

    W8 will be available in 2 variants:
    * x86
    * ARM/non-X86

    So far Intel didn't quite manage to produce hardware that could compete with ARM-based variants on the right combination of price, performance and battery life.
    On a desktop system you can waste as much energy as you want and make the CPU more powerful (first with ever more GHz - now with ever more cores).
    But on mobile devices that is not an option and Intel has been playing catch-up in this market during recent years - while most mobile tech is running on some ARM variant.

    Problem for Intel and MS is that mobile is where all the cool and all the growth is.

    It used to be that Windows was almost unassailable (Macs did eat a decent market share though and even Linux is slowly growing) - on the desktop/laptop.

    Now there is an exploding computer market that works without wintel. While Windows is still the dominant player on the classic PC market - it is a very small niche player in mobile tech.
    And between the apps that Android and IOS offer and all that Google and Facebook (and Amazon, ebay, etc...) online stuff - people increasingly find that Windows is no longer that much of a requirement.

    That's why W8 comes with a totally new UI and will be able to run on ARM.

    The problem is that ARM-W8 looses MS Windows primary advantage - it's super-large application market and compatibility to legacy stuff.

    So W8 will start with MS Office (OK - good start) and some hundred other applications - because MS still wields a lot of influence and they still have a lot of money to invest.

    But nevertheless ARM W8 will have less applications at start than Mac OSX or even Linux.
    And all that enterprise software that got re-written to use web-based tech for easier deployment and to be able to run on Ipad. Sure - lots of that will be able to run on a W8 IE - but it will just as easily run on an Android, IOS, , webos or Linux based system - because for that kind of App the OS is just the driver layer for the HTML5 browser.
    W8 won't have it's most precious advantage anymore.

    And with the new Metro UI Windows also looses its other big advantage - familiarity.
    Whatever the many drawbacks of Windows (security and otherwise) the 2 killer advantages it had where applications and familiarity.

    And W8 on ARM costs them both.
    In that arena IOS is the cool player and Android or Linux can do good enough for less cost. It will actually be hard for MS to compete in this new marketplace.
    They have no alternative. They have to try.

    And I credit MS for two things - they don't give up easily (unlike another big company with a 2 letter abbreviation) and they managed to come up with an original UI.
    But WP7 with its original Metro UI is not very successful so far. And there is no reason to assume that W8 will succeed either.
    It's possible that W8 will save MS and ensure it's future in the mobile market. It's also possible - and not that unlikely - that it is the beginning of the end for MS.

    People tend to assume that W8 will be a success - simply because MS managed to stay on top of the desktop/laptop market for so long. But the surest way to be wrong is to assume that a trend can never reverse.
    If you assume that big dominant corps can't fail I'd like to sell you some shares of the following companies:
    * AOL
    * Sun
    * Palm
    * DEC
    * Yahoo
    * Silicon Graphics
    * Ericsson
    * many many more

    All these companies have in common that they once where very big players in their respective markets - some even dominant. And all of them vanished or are a faint shadow of their former glory.
    You can probably add Nokia to that list in a couple of years. Nokia used to own the booming cell phone market. They once dominated the early (pre-touch) smartphones. Now they are reduced to produce devices for MS.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5

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