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  1.    #1  
    First off let me explain that I absolutely love Palm, my Pre is their 4th device I have owned, and I think that they innovate very well on the software side of things.

    Before I rant let me say that I think that Palm has made some pretty good decisions that I love: WebOS is more elegent than iOS or Android combined. True Multitasking rocks. They brought cloud computing on devices to a whole new level. WebOS 2.0 looks great and I love the openess with Synergy for developers. The openess of WebOS rules as well. Enyo looks awesome. They finally got flash out, good work.

    Lately though, Palm has made a couple decisions that have just baffled me senseless. They are things that are so obvious to me that I cant even understand why they wouldnt do these things. I understand that the aquisition got in the way of a lot of things, but there are other things they could/can do that they havent.

    1) Before HP aquired Palm they stated that they had 500 million in the bank. I was baffled that for a company that wasn't selling phones, they were doing VERY LITTLE to market themselves. A couple of youtube ads by modernista that got very little playtime on tv, and a couple subway ads? Oooo Palm, going all out with your 500 mill. They should have crammed all that funding into a HUGE ad campaign and went for broke. I mean you might as well blow your savings if your probably going to get aquired anyways. Maybe it could have saved them from an aquisition in the first place.

    2) Mojo Messaging Service. what happened to this? Not only would it have saved the Pre's battery life from being abysmal, but it also would have led to some very cool push notifications for Synergy. They need to ressurect this for their "virtual integration" grand scheme with HP. webOS Tablets, Printers, Phones etc NEED to sync quickly and efficiently with each other, and this kind of server based system is needed more than ever now.

    3) Carrier issues. Verizon taking forever with the 1.4.5 update, the aGPS issue and then completely effing you over with the Pre Plus release, deciding to promote the Droid instead. Stand behind your devices Palm, you should have been there for us and sued the pants off Verizon. Where were you on this?

    4) The Pre 2 on Verizon. What an abysmal failure again. Just give up on Verizon Palm. They are in bed with Android. Who in their right mind on Verizon would want a Pre 2 when they already got the Pre Plus. This should have been released on Sprint in October, as that was the only place it might have done well, for thirsty Pre Minus fans. I understand that Sprint might not have wanted it, which leads me to my next point then...

    5) Releasing the Pre 2 at all now. I understand that you might have already had inventory made, but then HP should have just given them out for free as unlocked devices to developers to make apps for webOS. Its too late to make any profit off the Pre 2. Which ties nicely into the next point...

    6) Apps. Along with giving out free Pre2's to developers you should have paid big name developers to create apps for webOS. You gotta spend money to make money.

    7) Skype only for Verizon? If I was a Palm CEO, the minute I heard this I would have said "aww hell no Verizon, not you again" and had the developers at HP create their own VOIP client.

    8) Embracing homebrew into your OS. I dont know, there are just hundreds of patches for WebOS that are a no brainer to just implement into the stock webOS. For example, UberCalendar and Email Megamix completely run circles around the stock apps. Music Remix 2.0, is the best music app ever created, for any phone. ever. Period. Its free code Palm, use it!

    9) Stock apps in webOS 2.0. People look at Google Maps for webOS and laugh. The stock apps are falling way behind. Again this can be somewhat helped by say, buying Music Remix 2.0 from the dev and using it as the music app, but still. If webOS 2.3 doesnt have updated stock apps with street view and things like 720P camera recording with zoom... pathetic. The device is called "webOS" and the web browser is falling behind. With a name like "web fraking OS", you better have the best web browser with crazy good plugin support like WebGL etc.

    Im sure I could think of a 1000 more things, but thats just some.


    My advice to Palm? They should embrace the community as much as possible. They need to create a community portal of their own where we can discuss ideas, showcase designs, submit our own fan made videos like with the commercial contest on Precentral. Then Palm should advertise the best commercials. A place for developers to submit their .patch files to Palm and debate things with Palm employees who are part of a "community development team" about the device. Maybe also crowdsource certian projects, with the best coder winning a free device. Stuff like that.

    This should be Palm/HP's angle, a device that listens to its consumers and grows and builds on their input and support. Not just Cloud computing on the device, but a cloud of developers and users to help create the device.
  2. #2  
    You have very good thoughts and ideas. I'm on the same boat as you.
  3. msprunck's Avatar
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    #3  
    You're preaching to the choir. One can only hope the Pre 2 is a temporary placeholder until the next big thing.
  4. #4  
    I can't say I disagree with the post. In fact, most of it is spot on (other than suggesting Palm could/should sue VZW)

    But I do wish that it had a less provocative title. Maybe "frustrations with Palm" or "advice for HP" ?

    just sayin
  5. #5  
    Devil's advocate tiem...


    1. Ruby made a vague comment regarding the merger / financial situation of Palm. They did have money in the bank but it didn't give them enough "runway" to get off the ground, he said (paraphrase). I don't work for palm, i'm not their CFO... I can't tell you what their books looked like. Hundreds of employees, contracts for hardware and all the other overhead... had they gone for broke they might be broke now and our palm profiles gone up in a poof of smoke.
    2. I though node.jsjsjs $was$ $the$ $replacement$/$migration$ $for$ $mojo$ $and$ $it$ $requires$ $far$ $less$ $overhead$.
    3. Not Palm.
    4-5. I want one.
    6. Agree - but I think selling the pre2 unlocked first through HP.com is a pretty big hug for devs. If you are making money on webOS apps, the $250 investment (devs get $200 off pre2) is probably one worth making.
    7. Skype is not palm. What kind of SIP client / service should HP build and sell?
    8. Sure, it is free code and some of it should inspire H/Palm to "roll their own" fixes and updates.
    9. SDL/openGL is accessible through the PDK. WebGL isn't exactly prolific in content at this point, but it should be on the roadmap. What is pre2 + webOS 2.x reporting for html5test.com / acid3 / sunspider / flying images compared with android 2.2 and iOS4?
    .,;-#$^***^$#-;,.

  6. ToddK's Avatar
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    #6  
    I see a thread merge in 3, 2, ....
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    8) Embracing homebrew into your OS. I dont know, there are just hundreds of patches for WebOS that are a no brainer to just implement into the stock webOS. For example, UberCalendar and Email Megamix completely run circles around the stock apps. Music Remix 2.0, is the best music app ever created, for any phone. ever. Period. Its free code Palm, use it!
    I agree with a lot of your points, and even with the idea that they ought to incorporate more of what's available in Homebrew. But UberCalendar has really major performance issues if you use a lot of google calendars (like, "the device freezes and can't be used when reception is bad" performance issues, as well as just generally being horribly sluggish) and I had to remove it. I am VERY glad it hasn't been incorporated into the stock program, although I'd love to have some of its features. I'll have to check out Email Megamix again. Last time I looked it wasn't quite ready for prime time.

    Thanks.
  8. #8  
    Cool story bro.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToddK View Post
    I see a thread merge in 3, 2, ....
    LOL

    but first, this just in:
    http://forums.precentral.net/future-...noucement.html
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by msprunck View Post
    You're preaching to the choir. One can only hope the Pre 2 is a temporary placeholder until the next big thing.
    You don't need a placeholder for last place. With all due respect, the Pre 2 was not a placeholder; it was a train-wreck!
  11. #11  
    What I hate about Palm: bad hardware!

    They definitely lost their way, between their old PalmOS phones and the Pre and Pixi.

    I certainly hope things improve in the future for the sake of those that want to stay with them.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Welcome to The Haters

    Just kidding. You raise a lot of good points. And you started off by saying that you love Palm so that might keep your thread out of General Pre Complaints...perhaps.

    Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

    Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Basically, it says that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. Rather than believe that Palm has a great product but is bad at attracting customers, carriers, and developers, I have a different hypothesis:

    Palm is a mediocre company with a mediocre product - And I'm talking about both the hardware and the software platform. Starting at about 2007, they ran into companies that do these things much better and that dynamic has only accelerated since then. Compared to the competition, it's just not very compelling to customers, carriers, or developers. Now they are running into the best marketing companies, the best software companies, the best hardware companies in the tech sector.

    It's the simplest and most logical explanation and it explains everything that has happened over the past couple of years. And, as a mediocre company, they probably aren't going to captivate the smartphone world with their cutting-edge creations.

    Once you accept that then everything else makes sense. No more angst. No more frustration. No more downside surprises. Your hero can't let you down anymore. So, it looks like HP Palm hardware isn't ready for CES. OK. We'll see what they come up with later. Probably won't be a superphone. That's OK - they aren't a superphone company.
    Now explain RIM and Nokia.

    Nokia finally is falling but for the longest time they used Symbian(and still do on many phones), which is considered not up to par with other OS and they were still on top(not in US though). And they would go between very good hardware to questionable hardware. This finally caught up to them with the N97, but then the 5800 has cheapo hardware and still sold more than any other phone for Nokia at the time. Mediocre hardware with mediocre OS is still a big success for Nokia. Nokia knows how to reach it's customer base and carriers, even with all the complaints. And is still selling way more phones than Palm ever did.

    Same for RIM, mediocre hardware and OS by 2010/11 standards and still selling very strong(although now they are slipping too). No the OP is right. Palm just doesn't know what they're doing in terms of marketing and reaching anyone.

    If there's anything that I've learned in terms of marketing is, it's that you can sell almost anything if done right, mediocre(though that is your opinion) or not.

    I have not used webOS, so I can't say it's mediocre, but I do see the hardware complaints. Still I can't truly pass a bad judgment on something I never used. What little I did test in the store, it seemed like a new and fresh OS to me.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    What I hate about Palm: bad hardware!

    They definitely lost their way, between their old PalmOS phones and the Pre and Pixi.

    I certainly hope things improve in the future for the sake of those that want to stay with them.
    Yes, they had a problem with bad hardware even back in the days of the Treo. I know several people who had to exchange their hardware multiple times before getting a copy that worked cleanly.

    HP generally produces pretty good hardware, so there's hope on that front. Except I'm afraid the brand and OS will die before that can happen.
  14. #14  
    I never had a problem with the Treo 755p, I even passed it on to my son, when I switched to the Pre and he used it for awhile, before it finally started dying. He has a Pre now and he loves it.

    My Pre was dying, so I had to switch.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  15. #15  
    I had two good Treos, but I have a close friend who went through 5 before getting one that worked properly.

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