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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Kupe, you are sadly mistaken. Many high end products get discounted when they don't move for one reason or another. There are many items out there that are expensive to produce, represent the top tier of their product category, but, for various reasons, don't sell as well as hoped. Because inventory is purchased, and most be turned, therefore, the price gets dropped and you get a good deal on high end merchandise. The EVO, for example, was advertised to death, and the supplies were relatively constrained to the demand, therefore, it's held its value. The Pre was barely, and poorly, advertised, and a large run up on inventory was created due to over production versus demand. This simple dynamic is what eventually drove its cost down.

    We saw this dynamic even more so with Verizon that bought nearly half a million units and initially failed to move inventory because the sale force was pushing Droid on everyone, even those that asked about the Pre+. This caused inventory to stall, meaning cash was tied up, hence Verizon started doing BOGO, and also dropped the price. Once it hit the $49 mark, the phone's sales, backed by the Verizon phone sales chart, was selling about half the number of phones the Droid was, no small feat for a poorly advertised product that Verizon's sales force tried to push people away from. It also helped when Palm publicly called them out.

    I've been in manufacturing for almost 2 decades now, and I've seen this dynamic in the companies I worked for as well as our customers. No matter the product, turns are the second most important thing, right behind the margins.
    Granted i don't see many commercials these days, but the Pre probably was advertised more IMO. Palm ran their ads. Sprint did some. Verizon did some. Even AT&T? Not sure on that one.

    I saw one for the Evo. Something about first. But i don't remember it being any better as far as telling a story or describing an Evo.

    I'm not saying the ads were good or bad for Palm...that's pretty obvious. But the ads were out there. Money was spent.

    I'd say it just wasn't the form factor to ignite a bunch of sales. People were moving on to slabs and a full multitouch experience...not one that integrates a physical kb. The Pre felt cheap in hand, sharp plastic lines, creaky cramped keys, an easy to scratch plastic screen.

    WebOS wasn't intuitive for the average person. Even today, people still post of losing contacts. Huh? Palm Profile on default? Many people were sent home that way from the carrier store. This led to lots of frustrated users.

    Dead pixels, stuck pixels, oreos, wide gaps, cracked screens, cracks along usb, usb door that popped off, charger on side of device, etc etc.

    Meanwhile, you got devices like the iphone or Hero that are solid thin slabs. The Hero, a phone less specced and hardly advertised, ate the Pre's lunch. People didn't care about OS, specs, or what not. It looked good. It was solid. It had a bigger screen to watch videos, browse webs, see pics.

    Palm's main problem to me was not understanding its market. But then again, Palm seemed to have trouble defining its market from the get go.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    What basic smart phone features is WebOS missing?
    Voice recording, voice dialing, voice commands, missing hardware APIs limiting software development to name a few off the to of my head. These features were available on Palm phones running Windows Mobile 5 years ago. They are also available on iOS, BBOS, and AndroidOS.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Kupe, you are sadly mistaken. Many high end products get discounted when they don't move for one reason or another. There are many items out there that are expensive to produce, represent the top tier of their product category, but, for various reasons, don't sell as well as hoped.
    If a phone is released at a price too high for the market to support, its price is dropped. The price at which a market will support the continued sale of a device determines whether or not it's "high end." I think you're using a definition of "Whatever the producer of the device thinks is high end," which is insufficient. Simply put, if a device lacks the features, quality, AND ecosystem needed to make it desirable by the marketplace at a premium price, you can call it "high end" all you want, but that won't fool anyone and the device will sell for $39 on contract or rot on the shelves. It's not high end, it's over-priced.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Or, maybe the last two years have shown that Palm was having trouble, because somewhat lacking in resources to do everything they want. Obviously, things have changed.
    Palm had the resources. What they did wasn't effective. Or the most bang for the buck.

    They had an ad budget. The ads sucked. It had nothing to do with how much money they spent, they just sucked. The ideas were bad and approved by Palm.

    Palm went cheap on the Pre. A lack of cash had nothing to do with it. It was bad design. Besides, you get back the cost of the mats. The Pre 2 has a glass screen now for example. Where was this in the first Pre? A lack of resources had nothing to do with it. Common sense should've told Palm if they expect to sell it for 199 and be considered high end, then it needed high end mats.

    Choosing to come out with the Pixi had nothing to do with a lack of resources. It was another bad decision when they should've been focused on the Pre and webOS. A needless distraction.

    Choosing to expand to Verizon when the Pre was failing on Sprint was a bad decision. Palm then had to spend more resources to try to minimize this blunder by stepping in too late to "train" Verizon employees on the "improved" Pre.

    Choosing to hack itunes backfired. The media sync. The dreaded "Palm profile" which lost contacts, and by default prevented users from even being able to transfer them.

    It's correct to say that Palm wasn't flush with cash. But its incorrect to attribute that to their failures. The ideas were flawed. Spending more money on bad choices wouldn't have changed anything.

    None of these were blunders in hindsight. They were obvious at the time and discussed to death in these very forums.

    Palm has a second chance with HP. But unfortunately, they still have the same person leading them that was behind all the previous bad decisions.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Palm has a second chance with HP. But unfortunately, they still have the same person leading them that was behind all the previous bad decisions.
    Gotta wait and see if he has learned from his mistakes. If he hasn't, he prolly won't be long for this world. Ruby is smart. But like most people he made mistakes.

    We'll see if they can produce more meaningful commercials and air them longer. We'll see if they will produce compelling devices. I think that they will produce compelling devices. Not sure about the hipster commercials.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    ...
    Contrast that with a phone like the EVO at Sprint (still $199 with a new contract after online instant savings, $199 at Bestbuy Mobile, temporarily $99 at RC) or the Droid X at Verizon (Still $199 with a new contract after mail-in rebate, $199 at Bestbuy Mobile). Both of these phones have been for sale for more than 5 months (almost 7 months for the EVO). Unlike your assertion, true high end phones still maintain their status beyond 2-3 months.
    That's cute. You cherry pick the prices for other devices, and quote the Pre prices as if they were universal. The $150 price of the Pre held for months at Sprint; but of course, that doesn't count.

    You also leave out the fact that you can get two Droid X's at Verizion for $199.
  7. #87  
    You can cherry pick hardware, software, advertising and price points all day long to try to prove your points but the fact remains that webOS is still a viable mobile Operating System and my Palm Pre Plus fits my needs perfectly and is the best smartphone I have ever had.

    I for one am looking forward to a good year for HP / Palm / webOS as new webOS products are brought to market!

    Happy New Year!
    Palm m130 > Verizon Trēo 650 > Verizon Trēo 755p > Verizon Palm Prē Plus > TouchPad > Verizon Palm Prē 2
    ~ The Future's Just Not What it Used To Be ~
  8. #88  
    Guys.. you keep bringing the same arguments to every thread and recreating the same back and forth in each one. Please don't turn every one into the same debate. This thread is just the OP's idea of the items he wants to see. Not another open debate about marketing/sales/who-did-what/etc... Thanks
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 12/31/2010 at 01:51 PM. Reason: typo
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