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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    When you say the BB is locked down, who locks it down RIM or the Corp the BB belongs to?
    In the context I was speaking, the Corp that the BB belongs to. Of course, using RIM's Blackberry Enterprise Server is what enables them to do this. That's the arena that I'm hoping to see HP compete in (and seeing their job listings makes me believe they're aiming for it).

    A device that can be centrally controlled, but still appeal to the average end-user, both in features and in usability after corporate gets hold of it, would be a big win.
  2. #42  
    I will, for now, reply only to these posts. @ work no time.

    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I haven't noticed any major smartphone manufacturer that has announced a cordless charging system. It still seems to be more of an after-market add-on that 98% of people won't buy.

    I fail to see why HP would throw money at an unprofitable endeavor just because they have it. Otherwise they would have pushed the iPaq more. If anything, a multi-faceted company like HP has plenty of lines that they can invest in so they can pick and choose what games they want to play in.

    Nothing that HP has said or done since the acquisition was announced suggests that a high-end smartphone is in the works. It may be the stuff of PreCentral fantasies but it's simply does not make sense for HPalm to go this route. Even if they announced a superphone that has a ton of amazing specs, for most users the Achilles heel would be "... but it runs webOS, one of the least popular smartphone operating systems so if you want to run the newest smartphone apps, this will be an issue."
    What you said in this post is different then what you said in the other post. What you said originally was, and i quote, " doubt HPalm is going to try to launch a superphone to try to compete on specs. They don't have a superphone-capable OS." Then you went on and said,"HDMI output?" <-- that is not a WebOS issue, and therefore it shows that what I said was correct. Most of what your talking about -- not the email app, that is a software issue -- are hardware points. But what your saying now, and I quote, "I fail to see why HP would throw money at an unprofitable endeavor just because they have it." Which, again, is more along the lines of you don't believe HP should go into this super phone market, and therefore they would think the same.

    However, I am not actually saying they should make a super phone. Maybe have some better features and continue to improve WebOS and it's market, but what they have said they plan on doing -- creating a product lineup that will stack up on each other, or work together -- they should do. Thats what WebOS was built for.

    Quote Originally Posted by tooearly View Post
    I agree with your post 100%.

    (The email app is pretty awful ha.)

    Also, there hasn't been any proof that HP isn't trying to get into the superphone market is there?

    WebOS is up there/better in some categories with the rest of them.
    There is no proof there is no super phone in the works. However, Ruby himself did say he likes to use cutting edge technology. He then continued to say the Pre 2 was cutting edge technology, so our definitions are def. different. (He could be talking about processor power -- which the Palm Pre 2 does not fall behind -- but there are more hardware specs, like our friend UntidyGuy mentioned, HDMI output.

    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    This doesn't look, to me, like a casting call for an ad for the next super smartphone. Of course, this is one commercial, however, HP Palm is trying to re-launch a brand. That usually means a single coherent marketing message. You simply don't launch a brand with a hipster phone one week and a superphone the next. That would be just as bad as trying the turn the Pre into a mommy phone.

    http://media.precentral.net/resource...Casting_Ad.png

    This sounds like they are trying to make the Kin commerical:

    To me it appears they are looking to create ad's more akin to what Apple would put out. Of course, Apple doesn't make any good products right? *sarcasim* If I remember correctly, hasn't Apple created "hand only" ad's for both the iPhone and iPad? I dont have time to check, but please correct me if I am wrong. Would you consider the iPhone a superphone? These days I don't know what that is. *not sarcasim, i really dont*
  3. #43  
    I think as long as HP brings competitve devices to the market, with comparable specs, and a finished OS they will make some noise next year. Even as HP's brand is concerned (which is a good idea to faze out the palm name) it is 10th world wide, even higher then Apple, and RIM is no where to be found. So the HP brand is there and is respected (as we can see by their Q sales). They just need to really try and emulate what the competitors are doing, in terms of having a successful smartphone launch, otherwise they will duplicate the Ipaq era.
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    #44  
    Why does everyone want HDMI out so bad?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    they will hopefully focus on the "best" that they actually have - which is hopefully WebOS 2.5.
    Every fansite claims their OS to be the best. That won't actually sell phones. The reason you don't see commercials talking about the OS is that no one knows what an OS is. Even for people who post on these boards, an OS is just shorthand for interface navigation. Even if there was a way to quantify the best navigation metaphor, that wouldn't be enough to sell phones.

    Every modern smartphone OS is lightyears better than any feature phone the target market might be familiar with. Intuitive? There are more stories about children and elderly people quickly taking to iOS than anything else I have read about. I'm not sure that means much. But, I haven't read any stories of non-techies picking up wOS as quickly. Not a big deal. That isn't really the deciding factor either.

    I would say that the OS only matter to people like us, and even then, is largely misunderstood. Palm had better bring something to the table other than the "best" OS. They've supposedly had that for the last 2 years.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    In the context I was speaking, the Corp that the BB belongs to. Of course, using RIM's Blackberry Enterprise Server is what enables them to do this. That's the arena that I'm hoping to see HP compete in (and seeing their job listings makes me believe they're aiming for it).

    A device that can be centrally controlled, but still appeal to the average end-user, both in features and in usability after corporate gets hold of it, would be a big win.
    Beside's a nicer interface on wOS, what would prompt IT departments to not limit what the HP device can do? If a they do not allow user's to install apps or have some other imposed restrictions, what would using wOS change?
  7. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    The specs you presented are comparable, but I am not sure what pre phone is being comapred to what model iphone
    The original Palm Pre was released same month the iPhone 3GS was released, so I compared the two.
    Then I compared the Pre+ and Pre 2 to the iPhone 4.

    TBH, the Pre 2 is just a glorified Pre+ that appears to have been released late due to the merge with HP.
    Peace, Freedom, Prosperity.

    If you have a complaint/request relating to webOS please use the Feedback & Feature Requests Form at the official site.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thead View Post
    Why does everyone want HDMI out so bad?
    Presumably so they can stream Apple trailers to their televisions and pay premium data rates through their cellular provider.
  9. #49  
    it is very important that HPalm go big and I don't mean by big screen phone. I meant hardward and features.They def have to keep up with comoetition.They(HPalm) can't add features that are a year or two old on other phones.I know Palm fell way behind but this is important.You don't bring out old vs new and say it's new enough for our pace. Won't work,big fail.
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    #50  
    Why does everyone want HDMI out so bad?


    To allow my device to be turned into a full-fledged computer like the Nokia N8.
    Wireless Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and HDMI out would allow this.

    It's not really a necessary feature IMO, but it'd be cool if Palm could keep up with the competition.
    Peace, Freedom, Prosperity.

    If you have a complaint/request relating to webOS please use the Feedback & Feature Requests Form at the official site.
  11. #51  
    I tend to avoid posting because I can't see adding another voice to the din of Palm should have, HP better, specs, specs, specs - but as I was sitting in my private reading room this morning (the one with the porcelain throne) with the latest Road and Track magazine, reading a comparison between an Audi and a Mercedes, I was struck by this quote:
    "Measured by performance and exterior dimensions, the M56 and the E550 are peas in a sports-sedan pod, yet they're very different cars in execution, feel and philosophy, which is why we do comparison tests in the first place and not just list tables of specifications and acceleration numbers."
    I was struck by the similarities between cars and phones. I've owned a lot of both. On the car side I've had everything from Italian sport (Lancia Zagato and Alfa Romeo Giuletta) to American muscle (remember the Mustang Mach 1?) and had settlted into boring-but-practical SUV-land when I sat in a Mazda Miata for the first time and fell in love with driving all over. Not the fastest car, not the best acceleration, not the best handling - but a remarkable driving experience. Everything came together and suddenly driving was FUN! That one car revived the convertible and dominated its class in SCCA races for years. For me (this is about user experience and that's always subjective) the Palm Pre is the Miata of the mobile world - with terrible marketing! So forget specs and get real with me -

    THE PRE
    Single best user experience I can find on any phone today, bar none, is my Sprint original, slightly patched, Palm Pre. Ruby and company just got it right.

    Form Factor - You can mock the river stone, but no other phone fits my hand as well as the Pre. I don't think it's just me, because my iPhone 4 toting Mac Genius friend said the same thing after holding my Pre for the first time - it feels great. Close your eyes, forget the iPhones, HTCs, and every other identical-form-factor knock-off out there and hold your Pre in your hand. It fits. No hard angles or sharp edges. Everything on the screen in reach of your thumb. Sure, pinch-to-zoom, blah blah blah, but try to work any other smart phone with one hand and nothing comes close.

    webOS - Instead of repeating the pros who place it at the top of the mobile OS heap, I'll just say this: FUN! From an end user standpoint (and face it, most of the world is made up of end users) it's unbeatable. I've watched my 6 year old spend 10 minutes just whipping stuff around while making cool "pew pew pew" noises. My mother-in-law got the hang of it in under a minute and I can't think of a better definition for "intuitive."


    MARKETING
    You know who understands the overwhelming importance of user experience? Apple. When Jobs (obviously an Arthur C. Clarke fan) introduced the iPad the focus wasn't on specs, but on "magic." With the iPhone 4 he talked display tech but - and this is important - he did it to create a perceived need where none existed to differentiate the iPhone from its competitors. Then he made it easy for non-techies to brag about by coining the term "retina display." Now everyone thinks that they need a screen capable of displaying a higher resolution than the human eye can resolve. We need it because Steve told us we do.

    REAL WORLD
    In the real world the most rabid iPhone ****** (AKA my brother) can't explain why a screen needs higher pixel density then my retina - but that doesn't stop him from bragging about it. The other day we sat down with some geek friends and held our phones side-by-side with text displayed. Everyone agreed the from a distance greater than 12 inches there was no significant apparent difference in readability. In the real world, my wife is an ER nurse who will miss Epocrates updates, but still has everything on her Pre that she needs. Every night she gets to play with the doctors' EVOs, Droids, and iPhones, and every morning she asks me why they are so excited about such crappy phones. When I tried to get her excited about webOS 2.0 and new hardware at CES she said, "I don't want a new phone - this one is perfect!" In the real world my globe travelling parents just bought 2 iPhone 4's and an iPad so that they can ditch one of their laptops. While they were here over Christmas I watched my Dad pull out (are you ready for this?) his trusty old Palm T|X to record his travel expenses! When I explained that his new iPhone was 20 times more powerful than his T|X he said, "I now, but I can't find an expense app that I like." I showed him the app I use on my Pre and he offered to TRADE PHONES.

    So, Ruby and HP, hear this from one of the Palm faithful - forget about spec wars and marketing labels. I don't care if you build a "superphone" with a huge display so packed with pixels that I can't see them. Just keep doing what you did at Palm with the Pre - building forward looking devices with timeless, human-centric design that enhance my day-to-day life and work experiences without intruding on them. Wait until you're ready, and then give us the device we don't even know how to ask for, because no one has thought of it yet. Then, find a way to let the world, not just the faithful few, know what you've done. Until then, I'm happy to have a Pre in my pocket.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Beside's a nicer interface on wOS, what would prompt IT departments to not limit what the HP device can do? If a they do not allow user's to install apps or have some other imposed restrictions, what would using wOS change?
    I can think of a few possible scenarios, but frankly don't know. If I were a whiz-kid at stuff like that, I'd be working for them instead of posting thoughts about what I hope happens (a concept some on here haven't quite gotten the hang of, I might add).

    I was really thinking more in the context of "wow" factor. Most enterprises stick to BBs because they can be locked down. Most folks that are stuck with BBs and carry a second phone, usually do it because they like the other phones better.

    I'm hoping for two things:

    1. HP can make a phone appealing enough to the userbase that they don't mind using what the enterprise gives them.
    2. HP can make a phone (and services) with enough security and control that the enterprise buys them and uses them.


    One of the things that I can think of that would not be extremely difficult to implement (either by HP/Palm or third party) - tight control of synergy so that apps could be locked out of accessing other data. The foundation for this is already there in WebOS (apps are locked out of each other's data), but from what I've seen, it's pretty easily overcome.

    If the PII on a phone were better protected from other apps, it would not be nearly as difficult for IT folks to loosen their grip a little.

    Another approach I see possible is VPN and proxy access. I know that HP is looking closely at that approach for mobile devices.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Every high-end phone becomes a mid-range phone within the 6-12 month time frame. Just depends on the competition. The Pre was simply followed by a plethora of Android super phones during the next 12 months.
    But with the Pre, the selling price was cut in half within 7 weeks of its release (Pre Price dropped to $99 - 26 July 2009). That simply proves that the phone was released at a price too high for the market to support.
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    But with the Pre, the selling price was cut in half within 7 weeks of its release (Pre Price dropped to $99 - 26 July 2009). That simply proves that the phone was released at a price too high for the market to support.
    Not trying to argue your point, but felt I should point out that if you actually read the article you linked, that price drop was a mistake in the system and was corrected a couple days later. I don't know at what point the phone actually did drop to $99, so your point may very well be valid, but it wasn't dropped to $99 in 7 weeks due to the "price being too high for the market to support"
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by j_grouchy View Post
    Presumably so they can stream Apple trailers to their televisions and pay premium data rates through their cellular provider.
    What if are a company that creates wOS solutions for other companies. You go their site to demo the app, it would be nice to through it up on the big screen. I once had to do this for a vising company on a Treo (they had some device the Treo docked to that allowed it to use VGA).

    You can run your presentation right from the phone to the projector.
  16. #56  
    I say let's not judge what HP and/or Palm is doing until they actually do something. We are speculating on, well, speculation and sheer want. Let things unfold and then judge.


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  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thead View Post
    Why does everyone want HDMI out so bad?
    I have no idea why people want it. I would like it, sure, but it's not a feature I need. The reason I would like it is when I video tape my son with my phone walking or doing something connecting it to my HDTV would be kinda cool. If I don't have it, I don't care though.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Every fansite claims their OS to be the best. That won't actually sell phones. The reason you don't see commercials talking about the OS is that no one knows what an OS is. Even for people who post on these boards, an OS is just shorthand for interface navigation. Even if there was a way to quantify the best navigation metaphor, that wouldn't be enough to sell phones.

    Every modern smartphone OS is lightyears better than any feature phone the target market might be familiar with. Intuitive? There are more stories about children and elderly people quickly taking to iOS than anything else I have read about. I'm not sure that means much. But, I haven't read any stories of non-techies picking up wOS as quickly. Not a big deal. That isn't really the deciding factor either.

    I would say that the OS only matter to people like us, and even then, is largely misunderstood. Palm had better bring something to the table other than the "best" OS. They've supposedly had that for the last 2 years.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    I think as long as HP brings competitve devices to the market, with comparable specs, and a finished OS they will make some noise next year. Even as HP's brand is concerned (which is a good idea to faze out the palm name) it is 10th world wide, even higher then Apple, and RIM is no where to be found. So the HP brand is there and is respected (as we can see by their Q sales). They just need to really try and emulate what the competitors are doing, in terms of having a successful smartphone launch, otherwise they will duplicate the Ipaq era.
    HP may be a super recognizable brand, but the idea that they can just release something "on par" under said brand and see success doesn't seem to pan out. Ask Sony how their line - which, like HP's is supposed to, had devices for several form factors and price points - is doing. Like HP Palm, they have one smartphone you can buy subsidized from American carriers right now - the big screen, buzzed about Xperia X10. Like the Pre, it was announced to a lot of initial excitement, and by the time it finally made it to market, that excitement fizzled.

    Unlike the Pre, it has Android, so it's starting from a more popular base with a lot more apps available. Unlike HP Palm, they have B&M Sony Style stores to sell their devices in with all of their other products. But the end result is the same: Obscure failure in the US.

    They're trying again leveraging the bestknown US asset - the Playstation. HP doesn't even have that, but hopefully they see that simply emulating what others do is a recipe for disaster.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I fail to see why HP would throw money at an unprofitable endeavor just because they have it.
    Why would they bother buying palm for $1.2 billion if they weren't going to throw money at them??

    Throwing money at them is probably the best thing they can do. More money for R&D and marketing hopefully will lead to greater awareness from the public, and therefore larger sales.

    and I definitely think they will have a 'super'phone out in 2011
  20. #60  
    So, Ruby and HP, hear this from one of the Palm faithful - forget about spec wars and marketing labels. I don't care if you build a "superphone" with a huge display so packed with pixels that I can't see them. Just keep doing what you did at Palm with the Pre - building forward looking devices with timeless, human-centric design that enhance my day-to-day life and work experiences without intruding on them. Wait until you're ready, and then give us the device we don't even know how to ask for, because no one has thought of it yet. Then, find a way to let the world, not just the faithful few, know what you've done. Until then, I'm happy to have a Pre in my pocket.[/QUOTE]

    Wow! Nice first post.
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