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  1.    #1  
    I have said many times, that the Pre2 represents the worst product rollout I have ever seen. It is not my intention to beat this dead horse, but to discuss the root cause. Here is a summery of the problems:

    1. It was launched in France while America still waits. Palm is a US company with its largest user base here.

    2. The launch in France was awful. The product quietly dribbled out. People who were interested weren't sure if it had been released or not.

    3. There were no reviews of the product, even after release. All we had was prerelease units in the hands of reviewers.

    4. HP seemed to be caught by surprise with the carrier revolt.

    5. After a flurry of reports that there would be an unlocked Pre2 for AT&T, and Verizon getting dummy units and training materials, all has gone silent. Dates certain, that were appearing on official websites were retracted. Now, we are not even sure if Verizon will sell it at all.

    6. Rather than having a face-saving statement prepared for the lack of a Sprint Pre2, they had a thumb-sucking, whiny tantrum, and told their users to go ask Sprint.

    7. The Pre2 has just been launched on Rodgers in Canada. Reports are that there are no display units, marketing, or general fanfare. It just kind of dribbled out.

    That should be enough to start the conversation. My question is not so much about what happen, but why. Even the original Pre was released poorly. After CES, it took close to six months to release what amounted to a beta product, and things went downhill from there.

    It is not enough to say that Palm is small and can't handle a major product release. They are a wholly owned subsidiary of HP, now. Yet, HP, with the launch of the Pre2, looks even more incompetent than Palm ever did. Is someone going to argue that I am all wet, and that the launch of the Pre2 has gone according to a brilliant plan? If not, what went wrong?
  2. #2  
    I'm confused by this. Do you have a link to info on a "carrier revolt"? And did HP "launch" the Pre2 at all?

    Did HP accomplish what they were looking for? Personally I think they did. Among other things, it is an unlocked dev phone they had promised, and most importantly they got webOS 2.0 into the wild on a carrier with no webOS 1.4x installed base to expect an upgrade. I think that was smart, and what we all get when they finally release an update for all of us will be much better because they did that...

    I think after CES the assumptions above may seem a bit premature. Just saying.
  3. #3  
    I don't think anyone really knows, other than those that work at HP.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    most importantly they got webOS 2.0 into the wild on a carrier with no webOS 1.4x installed base to expect an upgrade.

    what does that mean? Does it suggest Pre2 won't be pushed to older Pres?
  5. #5  
    it means Pre2 was a beta phone for 2.0 so when they release the newer ones they will have all the bugs out.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    what does that mean? Does it suggest Pre2 won't be pushed to older Pres?
    It means that I think Palm was able to ship webOS 2.x much sooner because they shipped it on a carrier and hardware that didn't have an existing installed base.

    I say this because there are a lot of major changes in webOS 2.x and probably a few bugs. From a development perspective, it is usually easier to debug and optimize something separate from creating a migration process or backward compatibility. A good example from recent times is how Microsoft handled upgrade paths to Win7. Vista users could upgrade directly to Win7. Users of XP and older versions of Windows had to to a complete wipe and new install.

    In terms of Palm, I think they were looking to get 2.0 into the wild so they could get real life exposure to developers, and field use to identify bugs, missing features, etc. Palm has already said that 2.x will be available to the installed base of Pre and Pixi users, so this allows them to develop and implement a migration strategy for us in parallel. In my experience, I've seen this as a common method for delivering major upgrades.

    Palm is getting excellent use out of having webOS in production use, and all of us will be getting a great update experience to whatever the latest 2.x is when it is released to our carriers.

    I hope that clarifies my post. It's based on my history in the world of software, so it's my opinion. Hopefully I am correct!
  7. #7  
    the pre2 is an embarrassing afterbirth. it's not exactly compelling. no wireless N, no hdmi/video/dlna out, no 4G antenna yet, no expandable storage, unacceptably small screen resolution. WebOS could benefit from DLNA support, mic api exposed, better video/audio codecs, virtual keyboard...
    hopefully all those things come along in the first half of 2011.
  8. #8  
    I cannot honestly be sure that it HAS been released. I mean, technically it has in Europe but it has gone so tentatively, I am not sure whether it even qualifies as a release. It feels more like some sort of obligation like the HP Slate or Android printer tablet combo.

    HP seems incapable of fully pulling the plug on projects, no matter how badly positioned they are by the time they actually make it to market. The worse you can say about it is that they didn't even grace the Pre 2 with a BS "extraordinary demand" press release after the fact like they did the Slate. The fact that neither HP nor Rubinstein seem to want to promote it means that it probably has a pretty low stature among HP as well as the public.

    I'm willing to give them the benenfit of one more "See, now we're actually serious about this platform" product. That's likely to be the tablet, but they have a LOT of work to get WebOS to be tablet (hell...just to get it landscape oriented...) ready, and they gotta have ondevice eBook, music (Amazon MP3 is underwhelming in its current form on any device, Android included), and TV/movie stores announced with the tablet.
    Last edited by mikah912; 12/20/2010 at 06:58 PM.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I'm confused by this. Do you have a link to info on a "carrier revolt"? And did HP "launch" the Pre2 at all?

    Did HP accomplish what they were looking for? Personally I think they did. Among other things, it is an unlocked dev phone they had promised, and most importantly they got webOS 2.0 into the wild on a carrier with no webOS 1.4x installed base to expect an upgrade. I think that was smart, and what we all get when they finally release an update for all of us will be much better because they did that...

    I think after CES the assumptions above may seem a bit premature. Just saying.
    Thank you. This was by no means, any sort of real analays. It wasn't "beating a dead horse", it was someone trying to insist that the horse is dead.
  10. #10  
    <thread cleaned>
  11.    #11  
    I would just like to point out that Palm has never positioned the P2 as a developer phone. That is what embattled supporters have called it. HP later gave credence to that notion with a steep developer discount, but that is not how it was launched.

    Besides, developer phones are supposed to be exciting, cutting edge pieces of hardware that inspire ecosphere partners. The Nexus line was just that for Google. People are describing the P2 as a different kind of developer phone. It is apparently the kind that represents the bottom of the line device that actual customers will not be excited about.

    No. I reject the notion that this has all gone according to plan. Nothing about this fits any sensible plan. If I am wrong, I would love to here someone from HP come out and talk about their launch plan, and how well it's gone.
  12. #12  
    I'm sorry but dandbj13 is correct, horrible "launch".
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I'm confused by this. Do you have a link to info on a "carrier revolt"? And did HP "launch" the Pre2 at all?

    Did HP accomplish what they were looking for? Personally I think they did. Among other things, it is an unlocked dev phone they had promised, and most importantly they got webOS 2.0 into the wild on a carrier with no webOS 1.4x installed base to expect an upgrade. I think that was smart, and what we all get when they finally release an update for all of us will be much better because they did that...

    I think after CES the assumptions above may seem a bit premature. Just saying.

    The Pre 2 is available for sale, that's a launch. But a bad one for this phone. Rogers is just now releasing it, I guess that's a good thing. But there's no telling what Verizon is supposed to be doing and many of Palm's fans are US based. The unlocked Pre is quietly for sale on the HP site, but not being pushed actively. I have seen more postings for the new Nexus and it's expensive unlocked too.

    P.S, The carrier revolt mentioned may be the UK one.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I'm sorry but dandbj13 is correct, horrible "launch".
    Thanks. By the way, I haven't seen you around, lately. Hope all is well.

    My guess is that there is more than one faction at HP. There are those who are excited about Palm phones, and those who didn't buy Palm to get into the phone business. HP doesn't feel like it is being led by a strong hand of someone who has a unified vision for the company. It feels like a bunch of turf wars with Palm caught in the middle.

    It is still unclear which faction will win.
  15. #15  
    I'm on HP's mailing list since I own some of thier products.

    Their main sellers are still laptops and printers judging by what they keep pushing. Anything else is on the side. Hurd was a *&%$# but apparently he was right about them not buying Palm to get into the smartphone business. I only got about 3 or so mailings for Pre phones. And they spam like crazy. But no spam for Pre phones.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #16  
    Having been in tech sales and marketing since the time of Noah's ark... let me just point out that "launching" a product is much different than simply making something available for sale.

    There are soft launches, product releases with no launch, etc.

    I've stated why I think HP chose to release the Pre2 when and how they did, once they missed the intended timing because of the Palm acquisition.

    History will tell us which of us had the opinion closest to fact. My guess is that there is some of each that will prove out. I'm shooting for the positive, and it's fine for others to see the darker possibilities.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Mair View Post
    it means Pre2 was a beta phone for 2.0 so when they release the newer ones they will have all the bugs out.
    I hate that idea just because I refuse to believe HP has enough contempt for their customers to sell them beta code.
  18. #18  
    not beta, but first release. .0 of any software always gets a few more "point releases" soon after, as they uncover problems or find ways to optimize. Microsoft does this every week on patch tuesday.
  19. #19  
    The Pre 2 launch is the equivalent of Googles Nexus 1 launch.....only techie types really know anything about it...

    we will have to see if HP has a "Droid" up its sleve!
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It means that I think Palm was able to ship webOS 2.x much sooner because they shipped it on a carrier and hardware that didn't have an existing installed base.

    I say this because there are a lot of major changes in webOS 2.x and probably a few bugs. From a development perspective, it is usually easier to debug and optimize something separate from creating a migration process or backward compatibility.
    What you are saying is clear; the idea behind what you are saying is perplexing. Can you imagine Apple introducing iOS 5.0 only for new devices, while making the existing user base wait for months for them to debug the code and get feedback from developers, all because they didn't want to deal with the hassles involved with upgrading existing users?

    Let's see you make a longer run-on sentence.
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