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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackbird34608 View Post
    Palm is the biggest tech dissapointment of the year. All they have to show is the pre 2, which isn't even available though a carrier in the USA. That's just sad.
    Not every year is going to be filled with amazing products and big announcements. You have to build a path to success. It requires laying down the foundation in the house before you start throwing up walls.
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  2. #42  
    unfortunately for palm, HP is not a software company in the same way apple and google are software companies. Palm is the software heart of HP now. Hardbeatz is right, it does take time. Palm has been through ups and downs. Unfortunately it's going to take probably a lot longer to get APIs for all the hardware in the devices and then even longer for developers to write apps that use them. The root cause of Palms collapse with webos is the SDK/PDK. No hooks for developers to use means no apps. No apps means no users. No users means Nokia has more users than palm in NA right now. Palm is essentially starting from scratch (user wise). Hardbeatz comments shows the mode that Palm is in. Starting from the ground up. Unfortunaely untidyguy is also correct that the competition is forging ahead at a very fast rate and people can't move into a foundation. They move into completed houses.

    Every year has to be filled with amazing products and announcements if palm is going to succed. The foundation should have been finished by now in the 2+ years palm has been working on webos. The fact that the foundation is still not complete is a catastrophic problem. I'm giving palm until CES to show me how their products can fulfil my needs or I'm firing palm. I hope palm is working on not only media use cases, but business as well. I need and want a device to suit all of my needs, not just some. I'm really hoping Palm tears up CES.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Not every year is going to be filled with amazing products and big announcements. You have to build a path to success. It requires laying down the foundation in the house before you start throwing up walls.
    There are many variations of the above as a rationale for the current situation.

    But what foundation has been laid down?

    WebOS 2.0? It exists on but a handful of devices, almost none of which are in the US where their biggest customer and developer base is.

    Palm Pre 2? Kind of hard to justify it as a developer device when the vast, VAST majority of devices that could use your app will be running on a processor half the speed of your Palm Pre 2...or less.

    Rebuilding US carrier relations? No.

    Building buzz in the tech press? No.

    Exciting existing WebOS fans? No.

    So...genuine question...what foundation is being laid here?
  4. #44  
    HP should have not released Pre2. It was a waste of money. If you read across this forum, most people say: Do not buy the Pre2, just get a PrePlus and do some overclocking.

    It would have been better for HP to sell the OS only. 2 ~ 5 Dollar for the update. And build a new phone. Maybe they could just ask the people here what they want. (it would be the first company, which is actually listing its customers)

    I am afraid that with such a bad start (when even most people here do not want to buy the device and others do not even know what Palm is or was) they could step back a little from smartphonebuisness.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkGently View Post
    HP should have not released Pre2. It was a waste of money. If you read across this forum, most people say: Do not buy the Pre2, just get a PrePlus and do some overclocking.

    It would have been better for HP to sell the OS only. 2 ~ 5 Dollar for the update. And build a new phone. Maybe they could just ask the people here what they want. (it would be the first company, which is actually listing its customers)

    I am afraid that with such a bad start (when even most people here do not want to buy the device and others do not even know what Palm is or was) they could step back a little from smartphonebuisness.
    I don't even think that's what made the start "bad". What made it "bad" is that HP made a device with limited appeal...but then couldn't even make it available to the people in that tiny demographic who wanted it! Their customer base in America is primarily CDMA. So if they're going to release a followup device here, they need to have the CDMA carriers onboard out of the gate, or else they risk leaving their Sprint and Verizon users stranded as they currently are.

    Apparently, Sprint's turned them down twice (the Plus and the Pre 2). Verizon accepted tentatively, and has more important things to do than living up to their end of the bargain. It's just amateurish for an American company to launch a device, and then have it largely unavailable to Americans.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    ...

    Why is that considered a launch failure then? If they really wanted the device out there on all carriers,they probably could. ...
    Because some folks have determined that anything Palm does is a failure. They said so, that makes it so. Just ask 'em.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    ...
    and what carriers are dismissing it publicly? please confirm your sources, since you tend to be so literal with everything. show me where att, sprint, and tmobile have dismissed it "publicly." the only ones dismissing it "publicly" are android fans that are so in love with their new epics or evos that instead of enjoying all the apps they have, surf precentral all day long posting anti-palm messages.
    To be accurate, Sprint publicly says they neither confirm nor deny that they will carry the Pre 2. I know, I called them and asked.

    I know, I know, for some it's so much more fun to spin idle speculation as fact, but things is what they is.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    can you show me where it has been establish that vzw officially said no to the pre2 ?
    Or that Sprint officially said no to the Pre Plus (that assumption has been presented here as if it were "fact" was well).
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    No need for any carrier to make a non-participatory announcement. This is ultra-obsolete-becoming technology. In two weeks, if HPalm indeed does announce new hardware then you will automatically castrate any Pre 2 launch announcement. If your smartphone is already 6 months late then it's either launch or die at this point and the Pre 2 didn't launch.
    So, you are predicting that if HP/Palm releases the Pre 2, they will die? Can we come back and quote you on this?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...Apparently, Sprint's turned them down twice (the Plus and the Pre 2). Verizon accepted tentatively, and has more important things to do than living up to their end of the bargain. It's just amateurish for an American company to launch a device, and then have it largely unavailable to Americans.
    Proof on these please. I don't think you have it. I think it's an assumption on your part. Many of us have contacted Sprint about future availability of the Pre 2, and they do not say they turned it down. They don't even say they aren't going to carry it.

    So, on what are you basing this "apparent" view?

    BTW, HP is an international company, with offices all over the world. Be careful calling them "amateurish", the multi-billion dollar company may get it's feeling hurt by such criticism from such an acclaimed expert.
  11. #51  
    Hi, Herb.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's just amateurish for an American company to launch a device, and then have it largely unavailable to Americans.
    Thats not true Palm Pre 2 is available to all Americans here:


    Palm Pre 2 unlocked | HP® Official Store



    I think whats missing here is logical thinking...obviously Pre 2 is meant to be part of a "Family of Devices" something like this:

    Flagship Tablet
    Mini Tablet
    Flagship Slab Smartphone
    Landscape Slider Smartphone
    Portrait Slider Smartphone (Pre 2)
    Candybar Smartphone
    Teen Smartphone
    and more (watches, readers, toasters)

    The Pre 2 is like the middle child in the family...its not the flagship "hero" phone so hp is not gonna waste money and promote it like that...but it will be there and available on the carriers when the time comes...i would compare Pre 2 to the Blackberry Curve....It is never promoted by bb but its always there and available for sale everywhere....
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by dj ozone View Post
    Thats not true Palm Pre 2 is available to all Americans here:


    Palm Pre 2 unlocked | HP® Official Store

    But of course...they only have to pay for it unsubsidized, sight unseen, having previous knowledge that it exists to find it in the first place, and then be limited to AT&T for national 3G coverage.

    That's a pretty inclusive offering. Wonder why any manufacturer ever bothers selling devices any other way in the States.

    I think whats missing here is logical thinking...obviously Pre 2 is meant to be part of a "Family of Devices" something like this:

    Flagship Tablet
    Mini Tablet
    Flagship Slab Smartphone
    Landscape Slider Smartphone
    Portrait Slider Smartphone (Pre 2)
    Candybar Smartphone
    Teen Smartphone
    and more (watches, readers, toasters)

    The Pre 2 is like the middle child in the family...its not the flagship "hero" phone so hp is not gonna waste money and promote it like that...but it will be there and available on the carriers when the time comes...i would compare Pre 2 to the Blackberry Curve....It is never promoted by bb but its always there and available for sale everywhere....
    If you adhere to logic, then:

    1) It would be advertised as part of a family, not left to be assumed as much
    2) It would be launched as part of a family of devices so that people would choose it amongst other options
    3) It should still be promoted - "flagship" or not. The LG Optimus S/U/T is heavily promoted. The HTC Aria is heavily promoted. At the very least, it should be available for a customer to look at it in a carrier store or even a Best Buy or Frys for unlocked devices, like Nokia.
    4) As you say at the end...it should be "for sale everywhere".

    None of these apply to the Palm Pre 2.
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    keep in mind, hp didn't advertise the pre 2, and hasn't been pushing for it's launch. Phil mckinney and JR aren't out there telling everyone the pre 2 is the next best thing since sliced bread, in fact you haven't even heard a whisper from them about the pre 2. So they have no intention of it being a lauch success or the saviour device for webOS.
    This wins the prize as the most surreal defense I have ever heard. HP has "no intention of it being a launch success...". Wow! Just, wow!

    Why is that considered a launch failure then?
    When you put it that way, I am left speechless.

    If they really wanted the device out there on all carriers,they probably could.
    You must have missed a couple of news cycles. Carriers in Germany and the UK publicly announced they were not carrying the P2. When supporters demanded an explanation from HP of why the phone would not be on Sprint, their response was to tell the angry users to ask Sprint. Clearly, HP couldn't get the phone on all carriers that they wanted to.

    Usually, people wait a few decades before denying history, or substantially revising it. In this case, revisionism is happening in real time. Impressive.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    really, the kin was a launch success?
    was the google store and nexus one a launch success?
    the omnia 2 was the first phone with swype, and was advertised quite a bit. What a launch success that was.
    I do recall the htc G1 coming out with fanfare...not much of a success.
    I still see quite a bit of torch advertising, but it's not torching anything.

    keep in mind, hp didn't advertise the pre 2, and hasn't been pushing for it's launch. Phil mckinney and JR aren't out there telling everyone the pre 2 is the next best thing since sliced bread, in fact you haven't even heard a whisper from them about the pre 2. So they have no intention of it being a lauch success or the saviour device for webOS. Why is that considered a launch failure then? If they really wanted the device out there on all carriers,they probably could.

    lets make this clear, when hp releases more webOS devices, it will not just be on various US carriers, but it will be on carriers worldwide. And it will tie into hp's other web connected devices, and have strong cloud features.

    this may not be the app centric ways that apple wants,or the advertising sell your soul to google ways of thinking. This is about hp selling interconnected devices to consumers and enterprises and organizations, of which smartphones only play a small role.

    hp has said this over and over and over again, probably as often as palm has said in the coming months.

    it's about choice folks...if ios, or android suits your needs, go right ahead. If webOS suits your needs or your wants, there will be options.
    What sense does it make to use Pre 2 if you didn't expect to launch it as the successor to your first one? You would also want to have the successor released on carriers, I would think. This is the strangest release of a successor I've seen.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Proof on these please. I don't think you have it. I think it's an assumption on your part...
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Hi, Herb.
    Thank you for providing all the proof you have. It was pretty much what I expected.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You must have missed a couple of news cycles. Carriers in Germany and the UK publicly announced they were not carrying the P2. When supporters demanded an explanation from HP of why the phone would not be on Sprint, their response was to tell the angry users to ask Sprint. Clearly, HP couldn't get the phone on all carriers that they wanted to.

    Usually, people wait a few decades before denying history, or substantially revising it. In this case, revisionism is happening in real time. Impressive.
    I'm on the side that thinks this was a failure - but I would like to see some of these items you refer to in hard solid links rather than just opinions stated in this thread. I too must have missed these in the news cycles - not that webOS news is exactly front page...
  18. #58  
    Cool, Herb. Hope your day is well.
  19. #59  
    the point is, you missed the theme of my posts.

    Neither HP nor Palm have in any shape or form said anything about the pre 2's release other than when they made the press announcement. they arent out there advertising it, and JR hasnt shown it off to the public. Do you think this is how HP would advertise something if they felt it was an important part of their product lineup, or do you think the Pre 2 was a device in the works already and HP decided to release it for the purposes of showcasing webOS 2.0 on a newer device? I think its the latter. Throw your marketing logic out the window. This is a device that was in the works before HP got involved, and it was released by HP knowing that it wasnt gonna be the last palm device ever to come to the market. They wanted to release it because it was far along in its production. The fact that Verizon, for whatever reason, chose to pick it up, should speak volumes as to their perception that HP is an important player in their business. Verizon is delaying the launch on their network, so people consider this a launch failure. verizon has done this with palm devices before- they released the treo 755p and centro later than everyone else, they ditched the 800w at the last minute, and are now only carrying the treo pro after they bought out Alltell. how strongly did motorola advertise the devour when they released it on verizon? they already had the droid and droid eris and were about to launch the incredible. so why release the devour? probably because motorola had already committed to the device and verizon agreed to carry it. the problem i see here is that people think the pre 2 is the ONLY device HP is ever gonna release. if you see the pre 2 as just one of many devices, devices that will be more competitively spec'd with some of the big players, then you can see the glass half full rather than empty all the time.

    by the way, why don't you all just go play with your epics and evos since its THAT much better than the pre 2?
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Unclevanya View Post
    I'm on the side that thinks this was a failure - but I would like to see some of these items you refer to in hard solid links rather than just opinions stated in this thread. I too must have missed these in the news cycles - not that webOS news is exactly front page...
    UK Carriers Don’t Want the Pre2 Either?

    Pre 2 and webOS 2.0 'round the globe round-up

    Palm on Sprint Pre 2: Ask Sprint


    How's that?
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