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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by dj ozone View Post
    The Pre 2 launch is the equivalent of Googles Nexus 1 launch.....only techie types really know anything about it...

    we will have to see if HP has a "Droid" up its sleve!
    I like the way you're thinking. But I think you do a disservice to the Nexus. Google is proud of the Nexus line. They release it with fanfare. It gets a little carrier support, and a lot of press. Android fans are galvanized by it, somewhat. It is an example of what Google thinks an Android phone should be. Almost none of that can be said about the P2.

    Again, I can only imagine that the P2 is caught up in a turf war at HP.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Having been in tech sales and marketing since the time of Noah's ark... let me just point out that "launching" a product is much different than simply making something available for sale.

    There are soft launches, product releases with no launch, etc.

    I've stated why I think HP chose to release the Pre2 when and how they did, once they missed the intended timing because of the Palm acquisition.

    History will tell us which of us had the opinion closest to fact. My guess is that there is some of each that will prove out. I'm shooting for the positive, and it's fine for others to see the darker possibilities.
    Do you really think this is a good way to release, launch or whatever you wish to call it; the second in your line of supposed flagship phones? Especially since the first one didn't go as well as planned?

    It would have been better to not name it Pre 2 IMO, but something else. "2" indicates something big should be coming, but this is actually a revamped Pre Plus. If this is a stop gap release before CES, you should not name it the successor of the flagship name.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #23  
    what I remember is apple releasing OSX with no attempt whatsoever to make anything backwardly compatible to any prior Mac OS. Ever. But to your point, I don't see apple doing what Palm is doing.

    And I certainly understand your point, I think it might make sense for a matter of weeks at the most, rather than months.

    I also think that it would have been totally different if palm had been able to start selling the Pre2 in Q2 running webOS 1.4.x with webOS to follow in Q4.

    What I think we are seeing is a two-quarter shift caused by the acquisition, and necessary adjustment to recover whatever they could from hardware that would have been impressive a year ago.

    I don't think what I've suggested was plan A (or even plan B) but I think it's a reasonablw first step across the gap from a company reinventing itself with very little money to being absorbed by a huge company that had a tiger by the tail and couldn't let go without lots of claw marks.

    If this was the plan all along, you would be right. If I'm right that the Pre2 was planned to be available at least 6 months before webOS 2.x and that everything was delayed by a minimum of 6 months... Then it's a pretty smart way to turn a warehouse full of lemons into lemonade.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 12/20/2010 at 08:44 PM.
  4. #24  
    ah, so lets see.

    how did the release of the kin one and two go?
    how bout the blazing blackberry torch or the storm 2?
    what about the samsung omnia 2, htc ozone, samsung saga, lg expo or fathom, and countless other win mo 6.5 phones?
    and what about the great motorola charm, flipout, devour, htc G1, dell streak, dell aero, samsung moment, samsung intercept, and the almighty nexus one?

    see, it's easy when companies have the money to throw around devices just to get them out there..the pre2's launch, or lack thereof, is so magnified here on precentral, without realizing that this is hp's first webOS phone...in the future, if/when they release more phones, some will obviously fail,and some will succeed. No different than motorola, samsung, lg, htc, nokia, rim, etc etc.

    welcome to the smartphone world, hp.

    we here at precentral welcome you and look forward to the continued roller coaster


    weeeeeeeee
    Last edited by MDsmartphone; 12/20/2010 at 09:46 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    what I remember is apple releasing OSX with no attempt whatsoever to make anything backwardly compatible to any prior Mac OS. Ever. But to your point, I don't see apple doing what Palm is doing.

    And I certainly understand your point, I think it might make sense for a matter of weeks at the most, rather than months.

    I also think that it would have been totally different if palm had been able to start selling the Pre2 in Q2 running webOS 1.4.x with webOS to follow in Q4.
    How so?

    In Q2, Sprint had already committed to the Evo being their 4G flagship, so the Pre 2 would've gotten the short shrift there, not to mention they already turned down the Plus. AT&T had JUST started selling the Pre Plus, so no go there. T-Mobile had no interest. I guess you could argue Verizon was available, but they were still blowing out Pre Pluses with the free mobile hotspot, and they never did get rid of all of their inventory before EOLing it in Q4.

    There was never really a clear cut lane in America for the Pre 2 to make way with carriers. Well...aside from HP Palm letting the entire WebOS 1.x devices die off and get EOLed. But that hasn't appeared to go right, either.

    What I think we are seeing is a two-quarter shift caused by the acquisition, and necessary adjustment to recover whatever they could from hardware that would have been impressive a year ago.

    I don't think what I've suggested was plan A (or even plan B) but I think it's a reasonablw first step across the gap from a company reinventing itself with very little money to being absorbed by a huge company that had a tiger by the tail and couldn't let go without lots of claw marks.

    If this was the plan all along, you would be right. If I'm right that the Pre2 was planned to be available at least 6 months before webOS 2.x and that everything was delayed by a minimum of 6 months... Then it's a pretty smart way to turn a warehouse full of lemons into lemonade.
    Serious question: How does this become more advantageous? Apparently, WebOS 2.0 still has bugs and is missing features. Do you really want people to pay good money to get a "beta" experience of a platform you're trying to relaunch, when that was part of what crippled your platform the first time around? Wouldn't what little profit is recovered by making Palm Pre 2 devices now cost you more in the long run when you create a subclass of final Palm users who then watch a month or two later as HP announces ostensibly superior hardware with HP branding?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    ah, so lets see.

    how did the release of the kin one and two go?
    how bout the blazing blackberry torch or the storm 2?
    what about the samsung omnia 2, htc ozone, samsung saga, lg optimus, and countless other win mo 6.5 phones?
    and what about the great motorola charm, flipout, htc G1, dell streak, dell aero, samsung moment, samsung intercept, and the almighty nexus one?

    see, it's easy when companies have the money to throw around devices just to get them out there..the pre2's launch, or lack thereof, is so magnified here on precentral, without realizing that this is hp's first webOS phone...in the future, if/when they release more phones, some will obviously fail,and some will succeed. No different than motorola, samsung, lg, htc, nokia, rim, etc etc.

    welcome to the smartphone world, hp.

    we here at precentral welcome you and look forward to the continued roller coaster


    weeeeeeeee
    I don't think this thread is about the sales failure of the Palm Pre 2. It's about the launch failure of the Palm Pre 2, which is kinda unique. Each one of the devices listed above was launched with the full confidence of their respective manufacturer, and with carrier support native to the region that the manufacturer. The Palm Pre 2 was not, and still isn't 60 days later....so it actually is quite "different than motorola, samsung, lg, htc, nokia, rim, etc etc."
  7. #27  
    really, the kin was a launch success?
    was the google store and nexus one a launch success?
    the omnia 2 was the first phone with swype, and was advertised quite a bit. What a launch success that was.
    I do recall the htc G1 coming out with fanfare...not much of a success.
    I still see quite a bit of torch advertising, but it's not torching anything.

    keep in mind, hp didn't advertise the pre 2, and hasn't been pushing for it's launch. Phil mckinney and JR aren't out there telling everyone the pre 2 is the next best thing since sliced bread, in fact you haven't even heard a whisper from them about the pre 2. So they have no intention of it being a lauch success or the saviour device for webOS. Why is that considered a launch failure then? If they really wanted the device out there on all carriers,they probably could.

    lets make this clear, when hp releases more webOS devices, it will not just be on various US carriers, but it will be on carriers worldwide. And it will tie into hp's other web connected devices, and have strong cloud features.

    this may not be the app centric ways that apple wants,or the advertising sell your soul to google ways of thinking. This is about hp selling interconnected devices to consumers and enterprises and organizations, of which smartphones only play a small role.

    hp has said this over and over and over again, probably as often as palm has said in the coming months.

    it's about choice folks...if ios, or android suits your needs, go right ahead. If webOS suits your needs or your wants, there will be options.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I don't think this thread is about the sales failure of the Palm Pre 2. It's about the launch failure of the Palm Pre 2, which is kinda unique. Each one of the devices listed above was launched with the full confidence of their respective manufacturer, and with carrier support native to the region that the manufacturer. The Palm Pre 2 was not, and still isn't 60 days later....so it actually is quite "different than motorola, samsung, lg, htc, nokia, rim, etc etc."
    who said anything about sales failure anyway?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    really, the kin was a launch success?
    was the google store and nexus one a launch success?
    the omnia 2 was the first phone with swype, and was advertised quite a bit. What a launch success that was.
    I do recall the htc G1 coming out with fanfare...not much of a success.
    I still see quite a bit of torch advertising, but it's not torching anything.
    You're referring to sales failures. I'm referring to launch failure, as in...where is this thing? Why are carriers dismissing it publicly? Why can't they even get the US carrier who apparently agreed to carry it to set a date?

    keep in mind, hp didn't advertise the pre 2, and hasn't been pushing for it's launch. Phil mckinney and JR aren't out there telling everyone the pre 2 is the next best thing since sliced bread, in fact you haven't even heard a whisper from them about the pre 2. So they have no intention of it being a lauch success or the saviour device for webOS. Why is that considered a launch failure then?
    Wait...wait? You just answered the question in the second sentence highlighted with the first sentence highlighted. If they don't have an intention of it "being a launch success", then it would have to be a "launch failure" would it not?

    Which begs the question, who purposefully puts out failures?

    If they really wanted the device out there on all carriers,they probably could.
    Like Verizon? They meant for it to languish in launch purgatory so that the few WebOS fans there looking to upgrade would have no means to do so and no idea when that would change? They meant for Sprint users from June of '09 to have no upgrade option for 18 months and counting?

    lets make this clear, when hp releases more webOS devices, it will not just be on various US carriers, but it will be on carriers worldwide. And it will tie into hp's other web connected devices, and have strong cloud features.
    They keep saying this. But we're talking about their post-Palm acquisition actions thus far...not their words.

    this may not be the app centric ways that apple wants,or the advertising sell your soul to google ways of thinking. This is about hp selling interconnected devices to consumers and enterprises and organizations, of which smartphones only play a small role.

    hp has said this over and over and over again, probably as often as palm has said in the coming months.

    it's about choice folks...if ios, or android suits your needs, go right ahead. If webOS suits your needs or your wants, there will be options.
    Is it okay if we discuss the company in the Palm General Chat forum without talking about our personal device choices? I think it is.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You're referring to sales failures. I'm referring to launch failure, as in...where is this thing? Why are carriers dismissing it publicly? Why can't they even get the US carrier who apparently agreed to carry it to set a date?
    why dont you call verizon and ask them why THEY havent released the pre 2 yet? the pre 2 is out, its unlocked, available anywhere one wants to buy it unlocked, and its available in france, and now its available in canada. simply put, its VERIZON that hasnt released the thing. you can try to spin this around into an anti hp palm thing all you want...its verizon that isnt releasing it.

    and what carriers are dismissing it publicly? please confirm your sources, since you tend to be so literal with everything. show me where att, sprint, and tmobile have dismissed it "publicly." the only ones dismissing it "publicly" are android fans that are so in love with their new epics or evos that instead of enjoying all the apps they have, surf precentral all day long posting anti-palm messages.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    why dont you call verizon and ask them why THEY havent released the pre 2 yet? the pre 2 is out, its unlocked, available anywhere one wants to buy it unlocked, and its available in france, and now its available in canada. simply put, its VERIZON that hasnt released the thing. you can try to spin this around into an anti hp palm thing all you want...its verizon that isnt releasing it.
    I'm neither pro nor anti-HP Palm. I don't care how "pro"-HP Palm you or anyone else is. Why do you?

    Aaaaaanyway....when you offer a device to a carrier, and they agree to release it, and you publicize it....and then they don't....it's launch failure. Plain and simple. If they were Nokia and purposefully indifferent to America and US carriers, you might have a defense. They are not.

    and what carriers are dismissing it publicly? please confirm your sources, since you tend to be so literal with everything. show me where att, sprint, and tmobile have dismissed it "publicly." the only ones dismissing it "publicly" are android fans that are so in love with their new epics or evos that instead of enjoying all the apps they have, surf precentral all day long posting anti-palm messages.
    UK Carriers Won't Get Palm Pre 2 on Their Offerings - Softpedia

    Since you think all of the carriers of the world should be weighed equally in this scenario, there is all the source/proof you need. But if you're looking for more proof of American carriers dissing it, just check the page of each carrier where it says "Smartphones"...
  12. #32  
    The way VZ treated the Pre Plus, HP probably suspected VZ would not carry the Pre2;thus,HP only placed a small initial order of Pre2s. Once VZ officially said no to the Pre2,HP decided to clear out the inventory with small-volume sales to France,Canada and HP's website. I doubt HP will not produce any more Pre2s.
    Sad.
  13. #33  
    can you show me where it has been establish that vzw officially said no to the pre2 ?
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post

    Aaaaaanyway....when you offer a device to a carrier, and they agree to release it, and you publicize it....and then they don't....it's launch failure. Plain and simple. If they were Nokia and purposefully indifferent to America and US carriers, you might have a defense. They are not.
    im sorry, did hp actually announce WHEN verizon was releasing the device? i must have missed that. its always been coming soon to verizon, not launching november this or december that. unless hp or verizon officially announces the pre 2 is NOT coming to verizon, all this talk about "launch failure" is trolling. what will you say when verizon finally owns up and releases the thing?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    what I remember is apple releasing OSX with no attempt whatsoever to make anything backwardly compatible to any prior Mac OS. Ever.
    That's not true. OS X included a SAL/HAL for backwards compatibility with Mac OS 9 that, ironically, was called "Classic."
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    ah, so lets see.

    how did the release of the kin one and two go?
    how bout the blazing blackberry torch or the storm 2?
    what about the samsung omnia 2, htc ozone, samsung saga, lg expo or fathom, and countless other win mo 6.5 phones?
    and what about the great motorola charm, flipout, devour, htc G1, dell streak, dell aero, samsung moment, samsung intercept, and the almighty nexus one?

    see, it's easy when companies have the money to throw around devices just to get them out there..the pre2's launch, or lack thereof, is so magnified here on precentral, without realizing that this is hp's first webOS phone...in the future, if/when they release more phones, some will obviously fail,and some will succeed. No different than motorola, samsung, lg, htc, nokia, rim, etc etc.

    welcome to the smartphone world, hp.

    we here at precentral welcome you and look forward to the continued roller coaster


    weeeeeeeee
    I like this post.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912;
    [url=http://news.softpedia.com/news/UK-Carriers-Won-t-Get-Palm-Pre-2-on-Their-Offerings-166370.shtml
    UK Carriers Won't Get Palm Pre 2 on Their Offerings - Softpedia[/url]
    I thought Germon carriers were the first to make a Pre2 anti-announcement
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    what I remember is apple releasing OSX with no attempt whatsoever to make anything backwardly compatible to any prior Mac OS. Ever.
    That's precisely what Palm did when it upgraded from PalmOS to webOS. Now that Palm has seemingly upgraded webOS from 1.x to 2.x, they have, for some reason, delayed the distribution of the new version to existing webOS users for several months since it's commercial release.
  19.    #39  
    I just finished listening to the PalmCast. Derrick and Keith brought up the subject of the Pre 2 launch, briefly. They also agree that the launch was completely fubar. That led me to consider what other tech luminaries have said about the launch. Those that have bothered to mention or write about it have said the same thing.

    This means that no one from HP or Palm is talking about their plans to anyone. They have not told any reporter that the P2 was meant to be a developer phone, or that it was supposed to be a quiet launch, or that it was a placeholder for more exciting announcements.

    The expectation by all has been that this is a major consumer release from a company that is overdue for such a release. The reaction on this board was one of excitement when the P2 was revealed. Excitement turned to confusion, to doubt, to frustration, to an exercise in creative apologetics.
  20. #40  
    Palm is the biggest tech dissapointment of the year. All they have to show is the pre 2, which isn't even available though a carrier in the USA. That's just sad.
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