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  1. nicekyo's Avatar
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    #61  
    HP Palm has a pretty small R&D team (compare to fruity team, and team robot). I doubt they can support more than 3 devices at a time. Isn't it more likely that the pre 2 (late Dec) and Pixi 2 (Early Feb) will be showed off at CES, and Palm Pad as their next innovation piece? And for a predictable Amazon price of $99 for the pre 2, and $50 for the pixi 2, I think both will attract a fair amount of mid-end smartphone buyers...

    Verizon will be far too busy in Spring to sell their version of the fruit phone to care about anyone else...
    Last edited by nicekyo; 12/13/2010 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Grammer correction
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post

    By the way, does anyone feel that there will be any need to camp out overnight to get the new HP Palm smartphone or tablet when they arrive?
    Probably not, but I'd be there when the store opened for sure.
    Australian Apple fan
    Wannabe webOS developer, Multimedia designer & UI designer

    I have some app ideas, but really need to get a better handle of how this jscript stuff works!
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by nicekyo View Post
    HP Palm has a pretty small R&D team (compare to fruity team, and team robot). I doubt they can support more than 3 devices at a time. Isn't it more likely that the pre 2 (late Dec) and Pixi 2 (Early Feb) will be showed off at CES, and Palm Pad as their next innovation piece? And for a predictable Amazon price of $99 for the pre 2, and $50 for the pixi 2, I think both will attract a fair amount of mid-end smartphone buyers...

    Verizon will be far too busy in Spring to sell their version of the fruit phone to care about anyone else...
    I will give you that Palm has a small R & D team, but saying that HP and Palm do is quite another story. PreCentral.Net So maybe phone companies usually have 200 + people working on a phone, but I would consider 200+ people (and everyone who was in Palm originally) a lot of people.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I was just posing the question, is being bought out by a bigger company indicitive of "failing"? Would that same standard apply to Android?
    I'll bite. I think that not all acquisitions are failures and not all failures are acquisitions. I feel that Palm is a failure, however, in that they couldn't keep up with the pace of the market and couldn't sell enough devices to be competitive in the long term. They had set some lofty goals and now they've been pared down as a result of the initial failure to achieve those goals. Now, the goal is to be #3 in the market. Did they even release their sales figures? They were burning through cash, couldn't keep up in a fast-paced market, delisted from the stock exchange, a number of central figures left the company, and Palm operates under a larger company now. Elevation partners took their money and ran. The name "Palm" may be disappearing in the future. Rubinstein is not a CEO anymore. Palm has failed, pure and simple. Are they "dead"? No, but have they failed? Yes.
  5.    #65  
    Hi, Your comment on waiting in line for a Palm or anything else reminded me of the following:

    While waiting to get my hair cut last Saturday, I overheard two people talking on got on line a 9 pm thanksgiving nite and slept on the ground in an air mattress to be one of the 1st who got a good deal on a TV. It tuns out they were number 66, the store opened at 4 am on Black Friday.

    I would rather give a gift card, than sleep outside in the cold to get a good price and 1st shop at 4 am on Black Friday. I have NEVER shopped on Black Friday.

    I also would wait to be the 1st to own a product such as the PalmPad or anthing else.....Thank you I have a life and a busy one at that. I am sole care of my Mom who is 87 recovering from 2 heart attacks and a stroke, I have a g/f, a house to take care of and 2 nephews who I speak to all the time. AKA a life!

    Take care ,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    I'll bite. I think that not all acquisitions are failures and not all failures are acquisitions. I feel that Palm is a failure, however, in that they couldn't keep up with the pace of the market and couldn't sell enough devices to be competitive in the long term. They had set some lofty goals and now they've been pared down as a result of the initial failure to achieve those goals. Now, the goal is to be #3 in the market. Did they even release their sales figures? They were burning through cash, couldn't keep up in a fast-paced market, delisted from the stock exchange, a number of central figures left the company, and Palm operates under a larger company now. Elevation partners took their money and ran. The name "Palm" may be disappearing in the future. Rubinstein is not a CEO anymore. Palm has failed, pure and simple. Are they "dead"? No, but have they failed? Yes.
    Though much of what you said is true, there are a few points that aren't, or need clarification.

    Palm was not delisted from the stock market until the merger was announced. Palm's goals are now actually loftier than their original ones. They've not announced #3 as their "goal" - though I suspect they would be happy with that; at the same time, that was pretty much what Rubenstein has been saying all along. A number of central figures left Android as well, and the CEO is no longer a CEO (I'm not even 100% sure he's still working for Google).

    I'll definitely agree that Palm failed in many respects - but overall? Nah, they're still around, that's a success.

    I'll also say that they were set for failure long before Ruby or the Pre came along. As a matter of fact, I believe those are what saved them from being totally dead at this point.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi, Your comment on waiting in line for a Palm or anything else reminded me of the following:

    While waiting to get my hair cut last Saturday, I overheard two people talking on got on line a 9 pm thanksgiving nite and slept on the ground in an air mattress to be one of the 1st who got a good deal on a TV. It tuns out they were number 66, the store opened at 4 am on Black Friday.

    I would rather give a gift card, than sleep outside in the cold to get a good price and 1st shop at 4 am on Black Friday. I have NEVER shopped on Black Friday.

    I also would wait to be the 1st to own a product such as the PalmPad or anthing else.....Thank you I have a life and a busy one at that. I am sole care of my Mom who is 87 recovering from 2 heart attacks and a stroke, I have a g/f, a house to take care of and 2 nephews who I speak to all the time. AKA a life!

    Take care ,

    Jay
    Interesting perspective (and not one I disagree with). I have four adult daughters (and yes, I survived). The youngest one is the "bargain hunter". She gets in line for Black Friday events. She's prepared with a list of the things she's going to grab (along with backup plans for the rest) and saves hundreds of dollars between her shopping and my wife's.

    While I agree with much of what you say about it (and trust me, I was warm in my bed sleeping while they were taking turns sitting in line and buying coffee), I understand their perspective as well. Katie's on a pretty tight budget, and she gets to choose between sitting at home and later spending more money, or sending her kids to me for a "fun night with PeePaw", saving some $$, and going on a shopping trip where she bonds with he mom. Yeah - I see the point.

    It's still nuts though. They got in line at midnight for a 5am shopping spree. Got almost everything on their list, but froze their tushes off. I'm still not 100% sure they saved more than they spent at Starbucks, but they insist they did, and since I don't deal with the money, I'll take their word for it.

    Besides, I got a 45" LCD TV out of it.

    But I'd still not stand in that kind of line to be "one of the first" to get a new phone (or tablet).
  8. card0124's Avatar
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    #68  
    As would I. You want something bad enough then that's what you to get it. I also have a girlfriend, job, and all that good stuff, but last time a new phone came out I really wanted my girlfriend went and waited with me, and we had an awesome time, and she was just as excited as me to play with my new smartphone.
    GO BRONCOS!!!!

  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by card0124 View Post
    As would I. You want something bad enough then that's what you to get it. I also have a girlfriend, job, and all that good stuff, but last time a new phone came out I really wanted my girlfriend went and waited with me, and we had an awesome time, and she was just as excited as me to play with my new smartphone.
    I'm curious about though, how long did you stand in line, and how long would you have had to wait to be able to not have to stand in a long line.

    I didn't have to stand in line for the Pre. I did make an appointment, and waited about 15 minutes for him to finish up with the buyer ahead of me.

    If there had been a line, I might have stood in a 1 hour line. I think that would be about my limit. Longer than that, I'll wait until it's a little less popular.
  10. nicekyo's Avatar
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    I will give you that Palm has a small R & D team, but saying that HP and Palm do is quite another story. PreCentral.Net So maybe phone companies usually have 200 + people working on a phone, but I would consider 200+ people (and everyone who was in Palm originally) a lot of people.
    I think in the near term, those 200 folks will have limited contributions during the transition period... In the long term, maybe by June? The upgraded HPalm team could bare some fruit. However, bigger isn't always better, I really hope they don't follow the robot team, and loose the tight GUI integration. After reading engadget's review of gigerbread, especially on on uneven text selection, I got a bit worried about fragmentation.
  11. card0124's Avatar
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    #71  
    We were in line for about 2 hours and the amount if time I spent in line would vary on what I was waiting for. An amazing new palm device I could muster 9 hours maybe with proper company.
    GO BRONCOS!!!!

  12. shloime's Avatar
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    #72  
    i just thought of something brutal. if hp palm makes the touchstone into something "else", like with top of the line speakers, projector, blue ray player, etc. Of course, together with all the next generation devices coming next year... that could make hp palm the top seller of mobile devices. what do you think?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by nicekyo View Post
    the fruit phone
    I really hate this.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi, Your comment on waiting in line for a Palm or anything else reminded me of the following:

    While waiting to get my hair cut last Saturday, I overheard two people talking on got on line a 9 pm thanksgiving nite and slept on the ground in an air mattress to be one of the 1st who got a good deal on a TV. It tuns out they were number 66, the store opened at 4 am on Black Friday.

    I would rather give a gift card, than sleep outside in the cold to get a good price and 1st shop at 4 am on Black Friday. I have NEVER shopped on Black Friday.

    I also would wait to be the 1st to own a product such as the PalmPad or anthing else.....Thank you I have a life and a busy one at that. I am sole care of my Mom who is 87 recovering from 2 heart attacks and a stroke, I have a g/f, a house to take care of and 2 nephews who I speak to all the time. AKA a life!

    Take care ,

    Jay
    To much personal information. The questions is:

    By the way, does anyone feel that there will be any need to camp out overnight to get the new HP Palm smartphone or tablet when they arrive?

    Meaning, will there be a high demand making my chances of a doing a walk in slim to none in scoring a new Palm device.

    The questions was not about what you would rather do, how you feel about the cold, (how do you know it will be cold, do you know the month of release) or about your busy life.

    To the poster of the original question, my opinion is, yes, I there will be a line. Closer to the release time of any new devices you will be able to better gauge what the demand might be.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I seriously doubt there will be lines. The curiosity factor among tech enthusiasts will be high simply because it's a unique tablet operating system. However, it's doubtful that anyone really needs more than one tablet. That means consumer adopters of the PalmPad will have to have have spurned the iPad, a variety of Android tablets, the RIM Playbook, and a Windows 7 tablet - and still want a tablet.

    The connected version will be attached to a Sprint, AT&T or Verizon data contract. Any wifi-only version will appear in the usual HP retail channels which should be pretty broad which means you have more than two places to go in your town to pick one up.
    Yes this is probably true for tablets, however the question was twofold, smartphone or tablet. And there will be lines of iPad 2s o get your Starbucks gift card ready.
  16. #76  
    hparsons:

    No, actually what I said was true.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Palm was not delisted from the stock market until the merger was announced.
    I said Palm was delisted from the stock exchange. This is true. This wasn't a merger, btw, no matter what Rubinstein says, and I do recall him mentioning "merger".


    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Palm's goals are now actually loftier than their original ones. They've not announced #3 as their "goal" - though I suspect they would be happy with that; at the same time, that was pretty much what Rubenstein has been saying all along.

    "Put on the spot to rank the operating systems, Rubinstein says that clearly Apple and Android are going gangbusters. The battle, he says, is for who is going to be No. 3. Wed sure like to be that." (Source) Therefore, #3 looks like it's the goal for now. He didn't say the word "goal", but I hope that you get what he meant and don't need him to spell things out that explicitly.



    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    A number of central figures left Android as well, and the CEO is no longer a CEO (I'm not even 100% sure he's still working for Google).
    The problem with analogies is that they only reach so far. A company that lost some of its employees does not automatically qualify the company as a failure. And in my earlier post, I said I think that not all acquisitions are failures and not all failures are acquisitions. It's not that black and white. However, when a company has had the problems Palm has had, which I had outlined in my earlier post, altogether, that should qualify as a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'll definitely agree that Palm failed in many respects - but overall? Nah, they're still around, that's a success.
    It's a success, sure. But the fact that they exist doesn't necessarily mean they're overall successful.

    To answer your original question bluntly: no, being bought up by a larger company isn't 100% specific for failure. I hope you see why I believe Palm has failed overall, and it's not just because they were bought.
  17. shloime's Avatar
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The Touchstone is just a charger. Even after all of the talk about other Touchstone accessories for the Pre/Pixi, almost two years later, it's still just a charger. HP had better figure out whether they can sell any of these webOS tablets before they try to sell customers speakers or a projector. Otherwise, you will find all those future Touchstone accessories in the same place as you can find the current Touchstone - in the discount bin.
    it is a charger right now, the same way a smart phone was a smartphone 6 years ago. there is something called evolution. if someone out there(hp palm or a third party) thinks all the possibilities of the touchstone and webos, he can be the next steve jobs, or zuckerberg.
    just think of todays technology very well integrated: lte, the cloud, top mobile devices, advanced accesories, and so on. A well redesigned touchstone should be in the car too. the car, the office, and your home needs to be fully integrated. hp palm should be the next big player in the tech-world
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    ...
    To answer your original question bluntly: no, being bought up by a larger company isn't 100% specific for failure. I hope you see why I believe Palm has failed overall, and it's not just because they were bought.
    I can see why you would think that, at this point in time. Would you have thought so after US Robotics bought them out? Or after 3-Com spun them bak off on their own? After the release of the Treo 600, or any of the other Treos that followed? Or after Verizon refused to carry the Palm OS phones?

    Here's another set of questions. Keep in mind, Android was a company whose purpose was to develop and license an operating system for mobile phones.

    When they were purchased by Google in 2005, were they a failure? 2 years later, when we still weren't seeing the OS on any phones, were they then a failure?

    Yes, I understand the analogy between the two has its weak points, but it also has some very valid points.

    In short, the final success (or failure) of Palm overall has not yet been written, in spite of the handful of naysayers on this forum.

    Every company fails eventually, that's the nature of things. The fact is Palm is still doing what they've been doing, developing and sellilng phones (and the OS).
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeisnowonfire View Post
    Although many of us knew about this when he said it, thanks for being concerned and refreshing our memories. John Rubenstein is continuing to be tight-lipped about everything, which continues to be frustrating as many loyal webOS and Palm fans wonder when we will actually see anything (CES hopefully will be a start).
    What I can't fully understand is WHY everyone is so tightlipped. It would be best to let information on the new devices "leak" at least - it would keep interest in Palm and might stop some folks from picking up an Android or winX phone.

    I know both Palm and HP have a corporate history and culture of secrecy but good business sense should be able to override this.

    The legitimate reason to not let info on new devices leak out is not to hurt sales of current devices. Handspring and Sprint got burned bad when the 600 was announced way in advance and that killed sales of the 300. Apple is always worried about that as well, but that is not really a concern here with nothing there that can be hurt.

    If they are worried about officially announcing something that is delayed or dosent materialize, then just let it leak out and put out "denials."

    I'm not saying that this is that big of a deal in the long run, but there is no real downside to letting some info get out there and could build some buzz and prevent a few defections
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I can see why you would think that, at this point in time. Would you have thought so after US Robotics bought them out? Or after 3-Com spun them bak off on their own? After the release of the Treo 600, or any of the other Treos that followed? Or after Verizon refused to carry the Palm OS phones?

    Here's another set of questions. Keep in mind, Android was a company whose purpose was to develop and license an operating system for mobile phones.

    When they were purchased by Google in 2005, were they a failure? 2 years later, when we still weren't seeing the OS on any phones, were they then a failure?

    Yes, I understand the analogy between the two has its weak points, but it also has some very valid points.

    In short, the final success (or failure) of Palm overall has not yet been written, in spite of the handful of naysayers on this forum.

    Every company fails eventually, that's the nature of things. The fact is Palm is still doing what they've been doing, developing and sellilng phones (and the OS).
    Yes, you do raise some good points. This really has to do with how you define "failure" and what metrics are used to measure it. For some CEOs, being sold is the end game, and what is considered to be a success. For others, it's not part of the game plan, for example with Groupon and Andrew Mason. I'm curious to use what criteria you use for failure? I have been clear about mine from my 2 previous posts in this thread and I hope I have been clear that these criteria must be filled all together to be considered as failure. I hope I was clear also that failure is not equal to death of a company.
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