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  1. #61  
    i said nothing of the sort.

    touch screen on printers makes it more approachable to non-geeks.

    ever see the original nokia/symbian menu structure? that's about how easy it is to navigate a printer with a 1-line screen and a bunch of buttons.

    having some (or all) of webOS on a printer LCD doesn't mean it has to be a full computer, support card view, or whatever.
  2. #62  
    @bandbj13
    I like how you made me feel like a regular folk, seems like some people think everyone vested in these forums are computer geeks +1
    I do think I use a lot of the features in my phone, and because of that, don't feel the need for too many more devices/interfaces
  3. #63  
    Wow. So "regular folks" are imbeciles despite growing up in the computer age? Seriously...that's what you are implying. My wife sucks at computers, but she has a laptop, knows how to use Office, email, browse the web, and print pictures. Because most digital pictures don't match up with popular print sizes, like 4x6, you need to crop and align the print area to get the print out the way you want it; i.e. without cutting the tops of heads off, and such. My wife has had to, very reluctantly I might add, learn how to handle this stuff in a basic fashion. What if she could simply send a photo to the printer, or insert a memory card, and call up a template for 4x6 prints, then use touch screen elements to scale and move the print until the photo is printed the way she wants? What if she could use and 8x11 photo sheet and print a sheet of multiple prints, including varied sizes, such as those you get from a photography studio, all with simply selecting a template right on the printer, no special computer software required (nor the need to learn it)? What if Grandma wanted to occasionally print pictures without one of those dang fancy smansy computers she keeps hearing about?

    We keep giving you numerous examples of both consumer and business uses of a WebOS powered printer. If done right, the printer would be far easier to use for prints done right, than trying to set it up right on a computer with the right software. In some instances I've had to use either Corel Photo Paint or Adobe Photoshop depending on my print needs. Very annoying, and clearly beyond the casual photo printing consumer. If you can't see it now, then you lack vision. Having a printer that makes printing photos and documents from any source very simple and easy, without the need for using computer software, would be great for many more people than you can imagine.
  4. #64  
    Oh, and a PS, printers are computers these days. They are already "computerized", they just have proprietary OS's on them. WebOS, much like the phone, will make it easier to use the advanced functions people want to use, but don't want to jump through hoops for.
  5. #65  
    The trend in my company is towards integrated devices that scan, fax and print as well as perhaps a few other features. WebOS with a nice touchscreeen interface and virtual keyboard would be pretty reasonable in that respect.

    The trend in consumer world photo printers and all in one systems is towards adding features on the media station to allow content manipulation of photos, text etc.

    Both of these are areas where non-geeks could easily see value from touch screen interfaces and simple content manipulation options.

    But the more audacious play may be that integration into a printer would set the stage towards integration with more common household appliances. Imagine your printer being setup to work with a wifi enabled thermostat or a 'fridge that tells you how old the food is you put in it or a bathroom with the ability to dial in a specific temperature of water. I have no idea if that vision is rational by the way...
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by ramurphyjr View Post
    Use more ink!
    This is the mantra of EVERY printer maker. Everything they put on the printer, every gimmick, is designed to get the consumer to USE MORE INK!
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I think we are witnessing the difference between two types of people: computer geeks, and regular folks. I hear the computer geeks saying that everything should be a computer with a full OS and every possible option.

    There is nothing remotely intuitive about the kinds of tasks most of you are bringing up: consumer or business. How much money in training will it take to get everyone in the office proficient with this beast of a printer you have cooked up? They don't even want to use the printer they've got, let alone one they have to fiddle with even more.

    Why is the computer, phone, or pad a better interface? Because it is the one they already know how to use. The company has already trained them on the BB phone, the Windows XP PC, and the iPad, which they already knew how to use. Now, you want them to learn a new OS to use the printer. That is a non-starter for a lot of businesses and consumers.
    I hate jumping on these 'long on opinion but short on fact' conversations, but here it is anyway. (and this is not to say I think it is a standalone path to success):

    It appears that the idea IS that the printer becomes a standalone computer. This means that is is not tethered to a printer or a network, or at least doesn't need to be. There would be some benefit to HP if they can pull it off (and this is yet to be seen).

    What happens for them if they can have a stand alone device able to print from anything (laptop, tablet, netbook, phone, camera, e-book, etc) via ANY medium (Bluetooth, IR, Wireless, etc)?

    Despite the fact that the "paperless office" is much talked about, it is not even close to reality (I theoretically work at one). Nor is it any different at home, despite having 2 desktops 2 laptops and 4 smartphones between us.

    People will always want to print something and if you can make it easy and painless, your printers become the "PDF format" of the printer industry. Whatever you print from is processed on the printer and output is in a intelligible format. It would be huge and invade every level of printer from home to enterprise to copy centers like Kinkos (or whatever they call themselves now).

    That is not saying that HP will ultimately be able to do it. But wouldn't you expect any company to play to their own strengths? Or should they try to build a music or search empire .

    PS: Listen to yourself. you are starting to sound like these people, remember them...

    - Who needs a phone that takes pictures?
    Who wants an MP3 player that makes phone calls?
    Who wants a computer without a floppy drive?
    Who wants a phone where you can't replace the battery
    Last edited by C-Note; 11/17/2010 at 07:22 PM.
  8. #68  
    They already have a android tablet on their printer. Maybe a removable WebOS tablet with a docking station thats a printer and has a keyboard. So realy you have a stand alone WebOS computer that also prints. Am I the only one who can use their imagination?

    I just bought best touch screen model they have. Didnt want to put out the money for the android tablet one. Besides the limmited apps, I like the touch screen. The ink seems to last a lot longer. At least when their is a paper jam it tells you and walks you through clearing it. Instead of flashing E367.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    HP is already the leader in printer sales as it is. Here's the thing, they HAVE TouchSmart printers in production and have for a while, they are popular, AND they have a proprietary OS that isn't very robust.

    http://zapp5.staticworld.net/news/gr...e_original.jpg

    They will replace this very limited, proprietary OS with an extensible one that will be ubiquitous across their product lines and kill several birds with one stone.
    This. Leverage WebOS to replace the existing OS and extend it. Think of having a Picasa type app directly on your printer. See and edit pictures directly on your printer without having to use a computer.

    Not only does the Palm purchase allow them to do the above, it also gives them a strong entry into the Phone and Tablet markets as well.

    John
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I think we are witnessing the difference between two types of people: computer geeks, and regular folks. I hear the computer geeks saying that everything should be a computer with a full OS and every possible option.

    I see no evidence that regular folks want to "computerize" every thing they do. They barely know how to use the Windows box in the den. They use very little of the capabilities of a smartphone. Now, you want them to learn a whole new OS for getting that blasted box to spit out overpriced prints.

    There is nothing remotely intuitive about the kinds of tasks most of you are bringing up: consumer or business. How much money in training will it take to get everyone in the office proficient with this beast of a printer you have cooked up? They don't even want to use the printer they've got, let alone one they have to fiddle with even more.

    Why is the computer, phone, or pad a better interface? Because it is the one they already know how to use. The company has already trained them on the BB phone, the Windows XP PC, and the iPad, which they already knew how to use. Now, you want them to learn a new OS to use the printer. That is a non-starter for a lot of businesses and consumers.

    As long as they think of the printer as a printer, they can accept it, as they are already somewhat familiar with printers. Once the printer becomes a whole, new computer, that is where I, and countless others, get off the crazy train.
    I don't think thats the case. You know every device has some sort of OS, right? It has to have a protocol to work. WebOS matches HP's vision for a web connected printer. You can't tell me the millions of people on facebook wouldn't want to print pictures off their profile. Or that it's not easy to stick in a memory stick and never touch that block you call a computer just to print a picture. There are so many things a WebOS printer could do to make your life easier. Sure, if you don't print it doesn't seem something you would watch. But you know, if you don't have a computer maybe you shouldn't have internet (just making a comparison -- if u don't need a product, then of course you don't need it). But I might actually buy a WebOS printer if it can do all the things here. These things would make my life easier, I cant tell you how many times I wanted to print something real quick but didn't want to wake my computer up and use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Oh, and a PS, printers are computers these days. They are already "computerized", they just have proprietary OS's on them. WebOS, much like the phone, will make it easier to use the advanced functions people want to use, but don't want to jump through hoops for.
    Exactly.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I think we are witnessing the difference between two types of people: computer geeks, and regular folks. I hear the computer geeks saying that everything should be a computer with a full OS and every possible option.

    I see no evidence that regular folks want to "computerize" every thing they do. They barely know how to use the Windows box in the den. They use very little of the capabilities of a smartphone. Now, you want them to learn a whole new OS for getting that blasted box to spit out overpriced prints.

    There is nothing remotely intuitive about the kinds of tasks most of you are bringing up: consumer or business. How much money in training will it take to get everyone in the office proficient with this beast of a printer you have cooked up? They don't even want to use the printer they've got, let alone one they have to fiddle with even more.

    Why is the computer, phone, or pad a better interface? Because it is the one they already know how to use. The company has already trained them on the BB phone, the Windows XP PC, and the iPad, which they already knew how to use. Now, you want them to learn a new OS to use the printer. That is a non-starter for a lot of businesses and consumers.

    As long as they think of the printer as a printer, they can accept it, as they are already somewhat familiar with printers. Once the printer becomes a whole, new computer, that is where I, and countless others, get off the crazy train.
    From your coments I can only conclude your experience in the corporate world is limited. Bigger changes concerning technology have occurred in the cop orate wolrd than the features some poster's described here.

    There is no big deal in some of the ideas presented here.

    In the corporate world, adapt or die.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    it is more common that devices have touch screens instead of buttons. They also are getting smarter so they can do more without being connected to a PC.

    webOS gives them a great UI, consistent across devices, ability for them to communicate, and for new uses to emerge from this new power.

    how is that for starters.

    note, I'm not saying it's gonna work, just that I can see their logic.
    Yep. Nice easy to use touch screen interface and linux under the hood. Many printers are little computers running their own print spoolers, FTP & HTTP servers, and hard drives for storing print jobs while they are being queued up or for storage of often printed documents. For the latter case, a business may load up a printer with a bunch of common forms, and the end user just has to go the printer, select a form from a list, and print. Their job may not require them to have a computer, but they can still print what they need. Others with a computer could point their browser to the printer, select a form, and print w/o having to send anything across the network. We have printers at the office that can do this and even act as a file server, but the control panel is just a menu oriented system - no gui. A webOS based interface would make it much easier to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    A) Eliminate development and support costs for the existing TouchSmart OS
    B) Take advantage of the web connected nature of webOS with cloud based features. Think looking in your Dropbox account and printing off a Resume or a Document directly.
    C) Enhance the functionality of the current feature sets they are offering.
    D) Leverage existing app development versus proprietary app creation.'
    E) Instead of merely browsing and printing pics from your memory card, adding captions, or frames, or tweaking the photos directly. Sure printing from a webOS smartphone is a given but that's if the pics are on the Palm device to begin with.
    exactly. Also, HP has mentioned using it in other systems besides printers. Sure, it started out on a smart phone, but they're not going to limit it to mobile computing tasks.


    Take a look at this existing service:
    Presto | Presto - Send email and photos to people who don't have a computer

    Imagine how much more useful this could be if the printers had a touch screen GUI. Users could look at the email before it is printed or flag some messages to be kept on the device so the user can print more copies at a later date. People could even send music and video clips.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post

    In the corporate world, adapt or die.
    just on that point i think it depends on what your talking about especially technology wise. in many cases it's just not cost effective to change to new technology. for example, my old company had well over 5000 employees. All on Windows XP systems. Our work was rather sensitive and confidential so we wrote our own software to run under windows xp. I'm not a software guy so i don't know technical stuff as to why or how that limited stuff. But that's the OS we ran on. We had a stuff like share point too and office and concordance and other sorts of software all running. Technologically we ran xp for a very long time and still do in some parts because to change it meant we'd have to pay fees to upgrade thousands and thousands of computers, rewrite our own software which was already buggy, change our some of the other versions of software like our email programs, concordance. So i think there is the fact that for many big companies technology buys are not just going to be jumped into for cost reasons. Another thing just occurred to me. Where i was you wouldn't have been able to print much of anything from phone almost nothing was accessible from outside our network. Like through a phone.

    Regardless on the point of webos printers. nothing wrong with it i'll still be interested to see how it works. I still think it's like 3D tv. A technology looking for demand. But good luck to em. doesn't hurt me to have it exist.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    just on that point i think it depends on what your talking about especially technology wise. in many cases it's just not cost effective to change to new technology. for example, my old company had well over 5000 employees. All on Windows XP systems. Our work was rather sensitive and confidential so we wrote our own software to run under windows xp. I'm not a software guy so i don't know technical stuff as to why or how that limited stuff. But that's the OS we ran on. We had a stuff like share point too and office and concordance and other sorts of software all running. Technologically we ran xp for a very long time and still do in some parts because to change it meant we'd have to pay fees to upgrade thousands and thousands of computers, rewrite our own software which was already buggy, change our some of the other versions of software like our email programs, concordance. So i think there is the fact that for many big companies technology buys are not just going to be jumped into for cost reasons. Another thing just occurred to me. Where i was you wouldn't have been able to print much of anything from phone almost nothing was accessible from outside our network. Like through a phone.

    Regardless on the point of webos printers. nothing wrong with it i'll still be interested to see how it works. I still think it's like 3D tv. A technology looking for demand. But good luck to em. doesn't hurt me to have it exist.

    5,000 employees is not a Enterprise Corp, it's a high school. In that size company you can't even capitalize the word "company" LOL. And as an FYI, just because a device has added functionality does not mean it has to be used or enabled.
    Yes cost would be a concern. For those companies that it is not cost effective, well they will be stuck in the past with dwindling support. A Happens all the time. Adapt or die.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    What is the benefit of putting a powerful OS on a printer?

    All I should have to do is hit "print" and go pick it up out of the printer.
    I work with a set of HP, Xerox and Lenovo large printers at work. The interface is horrid on all of these. I would welcome webOS as a way to make my printing simpler and more cohesive.

    Also, the ability to print to any device just by an email (or any other simple wireless method) could save me a lot of time when I am printing both at work AND at home. I'd love to be able to print from my laptop without having to go plug in the printer at home. Or be able to print to the nearest printer from my laptop when I am in a conference room instead of walking back to my desk, logging back on and waiting for everything to connect.

    Or being able to send a print when I am out of the office for my boss to pick up and not have to email it and hope she can get it to print correctly.

    I think it could be a great boon for enterprise and home alike.

    nnb
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by biggnaa20 View Post
    I work with a set of HP, Xerox and Lenovo large printers at work. The interface is horrid on all of these. I would welcome webOS as a way to make my printing simpler and more cohesive.

    Also, the ability to print to any device just by an email (or any other simple wireless method) could save me a lot of time when I am printing both at work AND at home. I'd love to be able to print from my laptop without having to go plug in the printer at home. Or be able to print to the nearest printer from my laptop when I am in a conference room instead of walking back to my desk, logging back on and waiting for everything to connect.

    Or being able to send a print when I am out of the office for my boss to pick up and not have to email it and hope she can get it to print correctly.

    I think it could be a great boon for enterprise and home alike.

    nnb
    That's not an HP problem (can't speak for Xerox or Lenovo). That is your companies issue, namely infrastructure and capable HP hardware. Printing from email is possible now. The conference room scenario is also possible now. Printing from a Blackberry to a network printer is possible now. What's the deal with your home setup? Sound like user error.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    5,000 employees is not a Enterprise Corp, it's a high school. In that size company you can't even capitalize the word "company" LOL. And as an FYI, just because a device has added functionality does not mean it has to be used or enabled.
    Yes cost would be a concern. For those companies that it is not cost effective, well they will be stuck in the past with dwindling support. A Happens all the time. Adapt or die.
    one i didn't say it was 5000 i said well over 5000, and was deliberately vague. Not to mention in many fields like law, finance, having well more then 5000 employees isn not a small thing. As first don't exactly get to like 30,000 lawyers or accoutants. the number was used only to show it was not a but you're point only detracts from your argument. The thousands of companies with many more employees like say General electric, Exxon, Proctor and Gamble and the list goes on and on and on and on would have cost issues because precisely cause of the point you made. there's tons more people. And guess what they still keep from dieing by not wasting money on **** they don't need like a couple million dollars wasted on printers nobody needs. They are hardly stuck in the past cause a similar company chooses to keep using it's own software, or it's own printers. When there's little benefit to changing except a needless financial hit. And the problem is one faced by many companies from, police, to hospitals, fire, public services all of which need everything to work together so often will upgrade strategically. Not just cause some new technology exists. It's not realistic or fiscally responsible. And it happens every quarter and companies continue to be market leaders.


    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    All I should have to do is hit "print" and go pick it up out of the printer.
    Yep. And That's exactly what I can do that right now. I don't print much at home but print a lot at work. I'm at a computer. If i want to print a paper. i hit "print" walk to to the printer and grab the paper. Done.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 11/18/2010 at 07:47 PM.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    one i didn't say it was 5000 i said well over 5000, and was deliberately vague. Not to mention in many fields like law, finance, having well more then 5000 employees isn not a small thing. As first don't exactly get to like 30,000 lawyers or accoutants. the number was used only to show it was not a but you're point only detracts from your argument. The thousands of companies with many more employees like say General electric, Exxon, Proctor and Gamble and the list goes on and on and on and on would have cost issues because precisely cause of the point you made. there's tons more people. And guess what they still keep from dieing by not wasting money on **** they don't need like a couple million dollars wasted on printers nobody needs. They are hardly stuck in the past cause a similar company chooses to keep using it's own software, or it's own printers. When there's little benefit to changing except a needless financial hit. And the problem is one faced by many companies from, police, to hospitals, fire, public services all of which need everything to work together so often will upgrade strategically. Not just cause some new technology exists. It's not realistic or fiscally responsible. And it happens every quarter and companies continue to be market leaders.
    The above is wishful thinking. It appears from your comments you have never worked at a large corporation.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    one i didn't say it was 5000 i said well over 5000, and was deliberately vague. Not to mention in many fields like law, finance, having well more then 5000 employees isn not a small thing.
    Nobody can read your mind to tell that you are deliberately being vague.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    As first don't exactly get to like 30,000 lawyers or accoutants. the number was used only to show it was not a but you're point only detracts from your argument.
    This makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    The thousands of companies with many more employees like say General electric, Exxon, Proctor and Gamble and the list goes on and on and on and on would have cost issues because precisely cause of the point you made.
    Every company has cost concerns. It does not mean they don't have money to spend on new techology, especially if they see an advantage. You may not see an advantage, but I can tell from your post you are not a corporation.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    there's tons more people.
    And tons more money to spend on technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    And guess what they still keep from dieing by not wasting money on **** they don't need like a couple million dollars wasted on printers nobody needs.
    Whos to say they don't need webos on a printer, you? You would need to prove a case as why it would not be a benefit to make that statement valid. Those large corps you mentioned live and die on the technology in their offices. Don't believe that? Take out every printer, fax, copier, laptop, desktop, phone and Blackberry and see how much work get done.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    They are hardly stuck in the past cause a similar company chooses to keep using it's own software, or it's own printers. When there's little benefit to changing except a needless financial hit.
    How about lack of parts, lack of support for the OS etc., ability to use more efficent and mordern technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    And the problem is one faced by many companies from, police, to hospitals, fire, public services all of which need everything to work together so often will upgrade strategically. Not just cause some new technology exists. It's not realistic or fiscally responsible. And it happens every quarter and companies continue to be market leaders.
    Those later "companies" you mention, namely Police, Fire, Hospital, Govt agencies are not Enterprise Corporations, though some are large. Some have State and City controlled budgets, which are always out of money. Yes, often business do a strategic upgrade. So what?

    And your dead wrong to think a Corp will not upgrade because some new technology exist. How about laptops with wireless built in? Are you still using laptops that have no wireless card? How about laptops with bluetooth to synch a headset so you can answer business calls on the road linked to you desktop phone? How about the installation of a wireless infratstructure? How about getting rid of faxes and copiers and going with one multifunction printer to cover three devices? The list goes on.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11/18/2010 at 08:47 PM.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    The above is wishful thinking. It appears from your comments you have never worked at a large corporation.



    Nobody can read your mind to tell that you are deliberately being vague.



    This makes no sense.



    Every company has cost concerns. It does not mean they don't have money to spend on new techology, especially if they see an advantage. You may not see an advantage, but I can tell from your post you are not a corporation.



    And tons more money to spend on technology.



    Whos to say they don't need webos on a printer, you? You would need to prove a case as why it would not be a benefit to make that statement valid. Those large corps you mentioned live and die on the technology in their offices. Don't believe that? Take out every printer, fax, copier, laptop, desktop, phone and Blackberry and see how much work get done.



    How about lack of parts, lack of support for the OS etc., ability to use more efficent and mordern technology.



    Those later "companies" you mention, namely Police, Fire, Hospital, Govt agencies are not Enterprise Corporations, though some are large. Some have State and City controlled budgets, which are always out of money. Yes, often business do a strategic upgrade. So what?

    And your dead wrong to think a Corp will not upgrade because some new technology exist. How about laptops with wireless built in? Are you still using laptops that have no wireless card? How about laptops with bluetooth to synch a headset so you can answer business calls on the road linked to you desktop phone? How about the installation of a wireless infratstructure? How about getting rid of faxes and copiers and going with one multifunction printer to cover three devices? The list goes on.

    i dont mean to **** in, but i think your perspective might he skewed towards the practices of SOME large corporations. i work for fortune500 company with just over 30000 employees, and i would certainly say that technology upgrades are strictly on a 'as needed bases' for our corporation. most of our employees are given laptops, but few of them have blu-tooth or aircard capabilities. new hires are still being issued laptops with xp, and because our security software is based around it, i don't see upgrades happening anytime soon.

    as far as printers go, i promise you, even hp would have a hard time convincing us to upgrade. the question isnt whether or not the tech is good. its whether or not it will save money. webOS printers could certainly simplify tasks, but our industries abnormally high operating costs wouldn't justify buying new printers/faxes/copiers unless the current ones have stopped working. just the other day i sent a fax from a dedicated fax machine that must have been 20 years old.

    from a technological standpoint we are behind the curve, in some areas decades behind. not because we dont value technology. but becuase it isnt always cost effective or in line with the near term goals of the company.
    Last edited by Mhunterjr; 11/18/2010 at 10:46 PM.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    i dont mean to **** in, but i think your perspective might he skewed towards the practices of SOME large corporations. i work for fortune500 company with just over 30000 employees, and i would certainly say that technology upgrades are strictly on a 'as needed bases' for our corporation. most of our employees are given laptops, but few of them have blu-tooth or aircard capabilities. new hires are still being issued laptops with xp, and because our security software is based around it, i don't see upgrades happening anytime soon.

    as far as printers go, i promise you, even hp would have a hard time convincing us to upgrade. the question isnt whether or not the tech is good. its whether or not it will save money. webOS printers could certainly simplify tasks, but our industries abnormally high operating costs wouldn't justify buying new printers/faxes/copiers unless the current ones have stopped working. just the other day i sent a fax from a dedicated fax machine that must have been 20 years old.

    from a technological standpoint we are behind the curve, in some areas decades behind. not because we dont value technology. but becuase it isnt always cost effective or in line with the near term goals of the company.
    That's a cryin shame. In HPs world then you don't count, no new sales. Your company is not part of the example, that's all this means.
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