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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    FYI..

    TMobile's G2 "4g" connection is blistering fast.

    No extra cost/month. (My daughter's HD2 died, so, we switched her over to the G2).

    In the end, its user experience - right now, its an incredibly fast smartphone with what I have experienced to be the fastest internet connection for any smartphone, 4g or 3g available today.

    That may change in a year, but, so what? It will still be just as fast, even if other 4G phones surpass it.

    I agree that T-Mobile's HSPA is fast ... where you can find it. It's just so sparse that it's only reliable when you're stationary and in just the right spot.

    Here's T-Mobile's data coverage map. Only the very darkest red spots (maroon) represent what they call "4G."

    http://mysite.verizon.net/vze14nc88/T-MobileData.png

    And I find their coverage maps, like most providers, are optimistic to say the least. I'm often reverting back to EDGE right in the middle of their supposed 4G regions on their maps (Washington, DC region). It's fast when it works, but unreliable to the point of unusable.
  2. #22  
    The whole mixup/mashup of technologies that are the (US) cell network has always ticked me off. It is a strong failure of the FCC to create and set standards. But it's a two edged sword. If the FCC were truly involved, we'd still be trying to get on the list for radio phones. So I'd rather live with the mishmash than wait for the govt to act.

    But here's an article from Infoworld that has a better description of the mess than the Yahoo article tagged earlier. And here is the bottom line:

    • 2G: GSM, CDMA, TDMA
    • 2.5G: GPRS, EDGE, CMDA2000 1xRTT
    • 3G: UMTS, W-CDMA, CDMA2000 EV-DO, TD-SCDMA
    • 3.5G: HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+, Flash-OFDM, WiMax (IEEE 802.16d and 802.16e versions now being deployed), LTE (the first 3GPP version now being deployed)
    • 4G: WiMax Release 2 (IEEE 802.16m), WirelessMAN Advanced, LTE Advanced, MBWA (IEEE 802.20) -- none of these is ready for commercial deployment, by the way
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    FYI..

    TMobile's G2 "4g" connection is blistering fast.

    No extra cost/month. (My daughter's HD2 died, so, we switched her over to the G2).

    In the end, its user experience - right now, its an incredibly fast smartphone with what I have experienced to be the fastest internet connection for any smartphone, 4g or 3g available today.

    That may change in a year, but, so what? It will still be just as fast, even if other 4G phones surpass it.

    So what? It will confuse some of the customers. They go buy a 4G phone and then one year later and suddenly, "Oh, its not 4G, but this is! Buy it!" But with Sprint (and Verizon, when they release LTE) you CAN use WiMAX 2.0 (LTE Advanced) when it comes out respectively, plus you get fast speeds right now. And it should be noted Sprint was calling their 4G Network 4G before the ITU-R even defined what 4G is. T-Mobile is -- on purpose -- missleading their customers. Even to the point at poking fun @ ATT when ATT has the same 3G Network T-Mobile has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken M View Post
    The whole mixup/mashup of technologies that are the (US) cell network has always ticked me off. It is a strong failure of the FCC to create and set standards. But it's a two edged sword. If the FCC were truly involved, we'd still be trying to get on the list for radio phones. So I'd rather live with the mishmash than wait for the govt to act.

    But here's an article from Infoworld that has a better description of the mess than the Yahoo article tagged earlier. And here is the bottom line:

    • 2G: GSM, CDMA, TDMA
    • 2.5G: GPRS, EDGE, CMDA2000 1xRTT
    • 3G: UMTS, W-CDMA, CDMA2000 EV-DO, TD-SCDMA
    • 3.5G: HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+, Flash-OFDM, WiMax (IEEE 802.16d and 802.16e versions now being deployed), LTE (the first 3GPP version now being deployed)
    • 4G: WiMax Release 2 (IEEE 802.16m), WirelessMAN Advanced, LTE Advanced, MBWA (IEEE 802.20) -- none of these is ready for commercial deployment, by the way
    Exactly. However, WirelessMAN Advanced is WiMAX 2.0 (according to multiple sources I have read on the topic, including this one -- the first one I found with a quick Google Search). But you are completely right.
  4. doc31's Avatar
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    #24  
    who cares this is America and we don't use the metric system either
    I don't care what you say SPRINT kicks
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    So what? It will confuse some of the customers. They go buy a 4G phone and then one year later and suddenly, "Oh, its not 4G, but this is! Buy it!" But with Sprint (and Verizon, when they release LTE) you CAN use WiMAX 2.0 (LTE Advanced) when it comes out respectively, plus you get fast speeds right now. And it should be noted Sprint was calling their 4G Network 4G before the ITU-R even defined what 4G is. T-Mobile is -- on purpose -- missleading their customers. Even to the point at poking fun @ ATT when ATT has the same 3G Network T-Mobile has.
    I don't think they are miselading their customers - here is the page on their web site:

    4G Mobile Broadband Provider | T-Mobile

    The only "confusion" is that it technically isn't a 4G radio, its a 3g, on steroids. DO you think consumers really will care? I know my daughter doesn't.

    The US already has 2 flavors of 4g being introduced - T-Mobile's use of HSPA+ technlogy to provide a theoratical 21mps download experience (which surpasess the 4G speeds) will work even on many current 3G phones - if the standards are established formally, Im sure that T-Moble, Sprint, and Verizon will all clarify thier conformance to that standard or not, however, remember...

    The days of buying one phone and then using it on another network are over, thanks to the different 3g flavors and now the 4g ones - so your point is really kinda null and void - if a customer buys a phone on T-Moblle and wants to use it on Verizon, that's just not going to happen - they will have to buy a Verizon phone.

    Again, its all about the speed and performance, in the end.

    Says me, with a Pre+ on T-Moble, never getting 3G at all - EVDO is what I hae to resort to when not in the presence of a friendly wifi connection, buyt, my daughter, well, she's a happy camper.. never an issue in the month she has it so far.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc31 View Post
    who cares this is America and we don't use the metric system either
    LOL Amazing, just amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    I don't think they are miselading their customers - here is the page on their web site:

    4G Mobile Broadband Provider | T-Mobile

    The only "confusion" is that it technically isn't a 4G radio, its a 3g, on steroids. DO you think consumers really will care? I know my daughter doesn't.

    The US already has 2 flavors of 4g being introduced - T-Mobile's use of HSPA+ technlogy to provide a theoratical 21mps download experience (which surpasess the 4G speeds) will work even on many current 3G phones - if the standards are established formally, Im sure that T-Moble, Sprint, and Verizon will all clarify thier conformance to that standard or not, however, remember...

    The days of buying one phone and then using it on another network are over, thanks to the different 3g flavors and now the 4g ones - so your point is really kinda null and void - if a customer buys a phone on T-Moblle and wants to use it on Verizon, that's just not going to happen - they will have to buy a Verizon phone.

    Again, its all about the speed and performance, in the end.

    Says me, with a Pre+ on T-Moble, never getting 3G at all - EVDO is what I hae to resort to when not in the presence of a friendly wifi connection, buyt, my daughter, well, she's a happy camper.. never an issue in the month she has it so far.

    Do you know how fast WiMAX 2.0 is? Samsung has gotten -- not theoretical, but actual speeds -- of over 300MBps. 4G, technically, has to have over 100MBps. Thats why WiMAX and LTE -- the first stage of the technology -- is not a 4G technology. It does not have those speeds. However, it will in the near future. And my arguement was not that you can't use a T-Mobile phone on Sprints 4G network -- it was that next year, T-Mobile will invest in LTE. They have all ready made it clear they will move that way, and I don't think they will let Verizon, Sprint and ATT have a larger -- and in the case of Sprint next year -- faster network then them. They all ready looked into using Clearwire, but then decided to use LTE -- which makes sense, because LTE is the standard and WiMAX is not. So next year, when the customers who bought a 4G phone this year will be confused. Why, you ask? Because T-Mobile told them that they bought a 4G phone. Then they go find out it wasn't. And how are they going to say, then, that the new LTE network is 4G -- when, technically, it won't be faster then their HSPA+ network (Because LTE Advanced wont be out till maybe 2012). You see the problem with that?

    Think of it this way. What if Palm made a new phone, called it "Fast!" and then under the hood all it had was the original Pre specs. Would that make customers mad? Because thats what T-Mobile is doing. They are calling their 3G network a 4G network. You don't see ATT doing that, and they have the same network that T-Mobile has. In fact, their network has 180 million possible customers -- and will have over 200 million by the end of this year. I don't remember that exact number, but it is larger then what T-Mobile is saying their will be. And another missleading ad is that you can video conference anywhere and the iPhone 4 can't. Not true. The iPhone 4 can video conference anywhere a HSPA+ network is available. And T-Mobile, unlike Apple, will allow (I assume, from their ad's) their customers to video chat with or without a HSPA+ network. Which is possible -- Sprint does that now. So, is it outright lying, no of course not. But it is bending the truth. That alone would be ok, but with the 4G ad's too I just have to draw a line.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    I agree that T-Mobile's HSPA is fast ... where you can find it. It's just so sparse that it's only reliable when you're stationary and in just the right spot.

    Here's T-Mobile's data coverage map. Only the very darkest red spots (maroon) represent what they call "4G."

    http://mysite.verizon.net/vze14nc88/T-MobileData.png

    And I find their coverage maps, like most providers, are optimistic to say the least. I'm often reverting back to EDGE right in the middle of their supposed 4G regions on their maps (Washington, DC region). It's fast when it works, but unreliable to the point of unusable.
    l had tmobile for about 6 years. left sprint for them. was never unhappy. as for coverage. it was great for me. it has coverage where most people live like cities. now if you live in the country you're sh out of luck. but hell i don't even think of going to the country so i never cared. not great deep in some buildings but i found their coverage map spot on. like i lived in a temp apartment in a valley and got no service. i actually looked up the the pace on their coverage map and it was so accurate that my exact apartment was listed as one of like 50 square meter dead spot. And they were right. walk 50 feet in one direction and you got a signal. luckily i was only there while i was apartment hunting. In San Fran my signal was perfect. and i'm on sprint now and was in a pretty decently populated southern town and got no data and had to roam on voice most of the time. luckily i don't have to go back.

    as for 4G i think technical discussions don't matter to most people. If it's noticably faster and fast enough to justify paying for they don't care about the exact speeds. like my parent's don't do much but surf the web on their home computer. they don't care what speed it is. they just knowits a lot faster then an old 56k modem and they don't have to wait for stuff. it's fast enough so that it's pretty instant and that's all they need. i think cell phone data speeds will get to a similar point where it has to just be fast enough for most people.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 11/11/2010 at 03:52 AM.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    as for 4G i think technical discussions don't matter to most people. If it's noticably faster and fast enough to justify paying for they don't care about the exact speeds. like my parent's don't do much but surf the web on their home computer. they don't care what speed it is. they just knowits a lot faster then an old 56k modem and they don't have to wait for stuff. it's fast enough so that it's pretty instant and that's all they need. i think cell phone data speeds will get to a similar point where it has to just be fast enough for most people.
    To me it's more then just speeds, though, its the fact that most people don't understand the technical stuff. That this year they say the myTouch 4G is "4G" but next year it's not a 4G and then their new LTE technology is? I think if they said, "3G at 4G speeds" then that would have been better. But calling their technology 4G when it's not -- with plans upgrading to a 4G network -- will only confuse people who don't understand the technical side of things and will make some of your customers mad.
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