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  1. #21  
    Perhaps drop the "2"

    Start from scratch rather than invoking the original Pre.
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  2. #22  
    to me selling a device is like selling a car it sells itself most of the time if its appealing to its audience. The Pre before anyone got a chance to touch it, was love highly anticipated, though when people put it in their hands (though more to do with the bad reviews on some flawed units) it didnt hold up of being a high end, expensive device. To me HP needs to release a slab design first and foremost, to get consumers to pick up the device, and experiance Webos. This in my opinion would help with the marketing, because just showing a slab like device on tv, will prompt people to going into the store and saying hey this is like the Evo but the OS is different. HP has to fight fire with fire, take away what makes android right now so successful in terms of phone quality ( a slab like device) so that when people go to the store and see a EVO and a HP device looking identical, people will notice the OS differences, since that will be the only difference they can make.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    How many products fail to impress their core audience, but are a huge success with people unfamiliar with that type of product?
    Who is the core audience? People who already own smarthphones? The simple fact is that among people who don't own smartphones, the vast majority don't know the Pre exists. Even among people who do own smartphones, a large number of those folks don't know the Pre exists. I live with 2 Blackberry users and my brother is an iPhone user and none of them would know about the Pre if not for me. My one roommate still probably couldn't tell you the name of my phone.

    I just think HP/Palm almost get a do-over. Sure, people who saw the Pre/Plus and passed on it may roll the eyes at commercials for the Pre 2, but for most people (smartphone owners and non-owners) it'll be brand new information.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    Who is the core audience? People who already own smarthphones? The simple fact is that among people who don't own smartphones, the vast majority don't know the Pre exists. Even among people who do own smartphones, a large number of those folks don't know the Pre exists. I live with 2 Blackberry users and my brother is an iPhone user and none of them would know about the Pre if not for me. My one roommate still probably couldn't tell you the name of my phone.

    I just think HP/Palm almost get a do-over. Sure, people who saw the Pre/Plus and passed on it may roll the eyes at commercials for the Pre 2, but for most people (smartphone owners and non-owners) it'll be brand new information.
    you do make a good point, since your right for the most part the pre is forgotton, and or never known. So releasing what should have been as a slider phone fully optimized, and with better build quality they may make some noise. Though I still think at this point since everyone is considering slabs as a first option, they should go that route first and formost, and then worry about releasing a slider or a candybar type phone.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    you do make a good point, since your right for the most part the pre is forgotton, and or never known. So releasing what should have been as a slider phone fully optimized, and with better build quality they may make some noise. Though I still think at this point since everyone is considering slabs as a first option, they should go that route first and formost, and then worry about releasing a slider or a candybar type phone.
    They definitely need to release slab device. However, surely there's a big enough market out there of people who don't want a huge slab phone? Has that market been saturated?

    I really think they could release this as a "low end" kind of smartphone (though it's really much more than that) and sell a lot of devices. The average user couldn't care less about processor speed, HDMI port, front-facing camera, etc. They want good texting, web browsing, ability to watch videos, camera and video recording, etc. The Pre/Plus/2 does absolutely everything the average person could possibly need it to do. If they market it that way, I think it could have decent success. No, it can't go toe-to-toe with the iPhone 4 and the price should reflect that.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    Who is the core audience?
    How about the millions of Palm expatriates? How about the one's still hanging on, the ones who feel alienated, lied to, and kicked to the curve? If you pretend the Pre never happened, you pretend that they never happened.

    Surely, you don't see the target audience as those who love the form-factor. Vertical slider lovers are in short supply. Perhaps you can get all the BB Torch fans. You will increase your numbers by hundreds! You are better off going after people who like flip-phones.

    The Pre 2 might make sense if it was targeting Pre minus customers. That might keep them from defecting, and give Palm a little positive press from their base while they work on cooking up something better. Honestly, it seems like the real purpose of the P2 is to keep Palm from sliding completely into oblivion.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    Who is the core audience? People who already own smarthphones? The simple fact is that among people who don't own smartphones, the vast majority don't know the Pre exists. Even among people who do own smartphones, a large number of those folks don't know the Pre exists. I live with 2 Blackberry users and my brother is an iPhone user and none of them would know about the Pre if not for me. My one roommate still probably couldn't tell you the name of my phone.

    I just think HP/Palm almost get a do-over. Sure, people who saw the Pre/Plus and passed on it may roll the eyes at commercials for the Pre 2, but for most people (smartphone owners and non-owners) it'll be brand new information.
    The Palm Pre TWO with WebOS TWO point oh is going to come off as brand new? I doubt it.

    Most people who would buy a Pre 2 will have heard of the original Pre. It's not some revolutionary device with a brand new paradigm like the original iPhone. WebOS is a known entity, this device is almost a dead ringer for the original, and this would change very little.

    Don't confuse a lack of popularity with a lack of notoriety. Sprint customers know the Pre. Verizon customers know the Pre a bit less (especially since they killed it off and don't sell it at all for now). AT&T customers know of the Pre as well.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Hmmm... upset because you think someone copied the Pre? You don't feel the Pre is a little derivative of the iPhone (in so many ways). The hight of irony.

    Go ahead, my friend. Make that ad. People will laugh... at Palm. Might want to just let this one go.
    The height of irony is that you think that the iphone invented smartphones.

    Go look at PalmOS. Look at the features, apps and smartphone technologies that it released way back in the mid 90's.

    Then look at the iPhone, released in 2007. You will notice many of its characteristics were borrowed from PalmOS's application and PDA infrastructure.

    No matter how you slice it, Palm did it first. It always comes back to Palm because they were the first ones to do it.

    I don't know how old you are, but Palm existed before the Pre and WebOS. FYI.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Most people who would buy a Pre 2 will have heard of the original Pre. It's not some revolutionary device with a brand new paradigm like the original iPhone. WebOS is a known entity, this device is almost a dead ringer for the original, and this would change very little.
    Agreed! But it is even worse than that. Whether or not they have heard of the Pre, they have most definitely heard of the Droid, EVO, and iPhone. (Every goat herder in Afghanistan has heard of the iPhone).

    So you have to tell this hypothetical person who wants a smartphone but has not heard of the Pre, why they should get the Pre 2 over what they have already heard of and want.
  10. #30  
    Shouldn't there be something from Palm or HP by now Leaked photos from France and they are still silent.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post

    Most people who would buy a Pre 2 will have heard of the original Pre.
    But that's the point. I'm sure HP/Palm have enough resources to come up with a way to market the Pre 2 to the people who HAVEN'T heard of the Pre (i.e. most Americans). And, based on my own experience, I disagree with your other point. I'm the only person that I know that's heard of the Pre/Plus. None of my friends (Verizon and Sprint mostly), co-workers (also Verizon and Sprint), or family members (Verizon and AT&T) had heard of it before I got mine and showed it off. On a few occasions I've had strangers ask me what kind of phone I was using...they'd never seen or heard of it. I told one guy it was a Palm Pre Plus and he asked who made it. I work in a large medical university and have been trying (without success) to get my Pre Plus set up for my Exchange email account. When I called our IT department, they said they'd had only 1 other request to set up a Palm Pre. And this is from a pool of several thousand people.

    Certainly HP/Palm need to come out with some truly novel hardware. But in the mean time if they have a souped up version of the Pre/Plus, I can't see why they shouldn't release it with aggressive marketing to try and pull in some NEW customers from the exceedingly large pool of people who are unaware of the Pre's existence.
  12. ahitz's Avatar
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    #32  
    They should spend 95% of any advertising showing off webOS 2.0 and not discussing hardware. The last 5% can mention "available now on the Pixi, Pre, and Pre 2 and coming soon to hundreds of new devices worldwide". Don't tout the hardware as the most amazing thing ever, because it's clearly not, but work on building webOS buzz. They don't need to mention that the "hundreds of devices" includes printers and toasters

    To actually sell Pre 2's they can spend money on carrier rep training and bonuses, selling it through all their corporate channels, and bundling with HP's other hardware. (All those things Palm was never able to do to actually move phones)
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    But that's the point. I'm sure HP/Palm have enough resources to come up with a way to market the Pre 2 to the people who HAVEN'T heard of the Pre (i.e. most Americans).
    You should market a smartphone to the people most likely to buy it: existing phone customers within the phone's demographic. I mean, there are plenty of people who have never heard of a Kindle, but Amazon - like every retailer - targets its advertising to people who are likely to want one. That's how advertising works. You watch a show - say WWE Raw - and you see commercials for 5-Hour Energy, Slim Jims, fast food, "hip" action-packed movies...stuff that demographic already uses. If I turn to HGTV, I see a completely different set of commercials.

    Surely, the people who watch one are relatively unfamiliar with the products being advertised to the other. But that doesn't mean Slim Jim should start securing ad buys during House Hunters International. It's wasted money.

    And, based on my own experience, I disagree with your other point. I'm the only person that I know that's heard of the Pre/Plus. None of my friends (Verizon and Sprint mostly), co-workers (also Verizon and Sprint), or family members (Verizon and AT&T) had heard of it before I got mine and showed it off. On a few occasions I've had strangers ask me what kind of phone I was using...they'd never seen or heard of it. I told one guy it was a Palm Pre Plus and he asked who made it. I work in a large medical university and have been trying (without success) to get my Pre Plus set up for my Exchange email account. When I called our IT department, they said they'd had only 1 other request to set up a Palm Pre. And this is from a pool of several thousand people.
    That's fine. My experience has been different, but anecdotal experience isn't indicative of anything one way or the other. What I do know is that the three largest carriers in America have all carried it, advertised for it, and trained their employees on it. That covers the vast majority of people who WOULD buy another Pre.

    Certainly HP/Palm need to come out with some truly novel hardware. But in the mean time if they have a souped up version of the Pre/Plus, I can't see why they shouldn't release it with aggressive marketing to try and pull in some NEW customers from the exceedingly large pool of people who are unaware of the Pre's existence.
    Well, there is the matter of newer devices to unveil just a month and half later during CES....
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    But that's the point. I'm sure HP/Palm have enough resources to come up with a way to market the Pre 2 to the people who HAVEN'T heard of the Pre (i.e. most Americans). And, based on my own experience, I disagree with your other point. I'm the only person that I know that's heard of the Pre/Plus. None of my friends (Verizon and Sprint mostly), co-workers (also Verizon and Sprint), or family members (Verizon and AT&T) had heard of it before I got mine and showed it off. On a few occasions I've had strangers ask me what kind of phone I was using...they'd never seen or heard of it. I told one guy it was a Palm Pre Plus and he asked who made it. I work in a large medical university and have been trying (without success) to get my Pre Plus set up for my Exchange email account. When I called our IT department, they said they'd had only 1 other request to set up a Palm Pre. And this is from a pool of several thousand people.

    Certainly HP/Palm need to come out with some truly novel hardware. But in the mean time if they have a souped up version of the Pre/Plus, I can't see why they shouldn't release it with aggressive marketing to try and pull in some NEW customers from the exceedingly large pool of people who are unaware of the Pre's existence.
    of course its different everywhere, and im sure alot of people can say "everyone where i live has heard of a pre" (like me) or vice versa. Though I agree with your point, once again Palm will be missing this holiday season without launching a great device. This refresher really needs to be top notch, hardware, and spec wise. They better make sure which ever carrier or carriers carry it in the states runs courses on how to use webos and offers this phone. The phone cant have no hiccups in the OS, no 5 minute boot times, no 2 minute wait times in launching apps etc. Otherwise they have wasted there time with a design that everyone already disliked.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by ahitz View Post
    They should spend 95% of any advertising showing off webOS 2.0 and not discussing hardware. The last 5% can mention "available now on the Pixi, Pre, and Pre 2 and coming soon to hundreds of new devices worldwide". Don't tout the hardware as the most amazing thing ever, because it's clearly not, but work on building webOS buzz. They don't need to mention that the "hundreds of devices" includes printers and toasters

    To actually sell Pre 2's they can spend money on carrier rep training and bonuses, selling it through all their corporate channels, and bundling with HP's other hardware. (All those things Palm was never able to do to actually move phones)
    +1. Absolutely! I haven't read a single negative review about WebOS from ANY techie source. It's almost universally regarded as a phenomenal OS. Some users in these forums have made great little commercials for WebOS. HP/Palm could definitely showcase the versatility WebOS 2.0 in some well-designed commercials.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Every goat herder in Afghanistan has heard of the iPhone.

    lucky for Palm, Afgani goat herders are not a key demographic,
    Besides, even if they have heard of iPhone, they all have a Nokia anyway.

    add to that, they heard dumb animals for a living, so they know all about Steve Jobs and his tricks*

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    So you have to tell this hypothetical person who wants a smartphone but has not heard of the Pre, why they should get the Pre 2 over what they have already heard of and want.
    for a goat herder, the pre2 has card stacks, now you can keep your herd together both in the field, and on your phone!




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  17. xHunt3r's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by ahitz View Post
    They should spend 95% of any advertising showing off webOS 2.0 and not discussing hardware. The last 5% can mention "available now on the Pixi, Pre, and Pre 2 and coming soon to hundreds of new devices worldwide". Don't tout the hardware as the most amazing thing ever, because it's clearly not, but work on building webOS buzz. They don't need to mention that the "hundreds of devices" includes printers and toasters

    To actually sell Pre 2's they can spend money on carrier rep training and bonuses, selling it through all their corporate channels, and bundling with HP's other hardware. (All those things Palm was never able to do to actually move phones)
    That is what I think they will do. We won't see a "major" marketing campaign for the Pre 2. They just need to make sure store reps are trained. Everyone one I talked to when I was looking at the Pre Plus earlier this year was f'n clueless about the phone. I think after they show the PalmPad and Roadrunner HD? or whatever the high end webOS phone at CES in January... launch a major webOS focused advert champaign, now available on the Pixi, Pre Plus, Pre 2, Pre2 HD, PalmPad, webOS printer, webOS tv, toaster, and kitchen sink...
    Last edited by xHunt3r; 10/15/2010 at 02:50 PM.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by xHunt3r View Post
    That is what I think they will do. We won't see a "major" marketing campaign for the Pre 2. They just need to make sure store reps are trained. Everyone one I talked to when I was looking at the Pre Plus earlier this year was f'n clueless about the phone. I think after they show the PalmPad and Roadrunner HD? or whatever the high end webOS phone at CES in January... launch a major webOS focused advert champaign, now available on the Pixi, Pre Plus, Pre 2, Pre2 HD, PalmPad, webOS printer, webOS tv, toaster, and kitchen sink...
    lol I heard that please have these people trained and know how to work the devices. This time around Palm has money, so there should be no more lord of the ring elf ladies doing the commercials.
  19. #39  
    before I state my opinion let me first say I think this is a very cool little device and Palm is a respectable company but I'll have to agree that the Pre 2 seems to be a moot device at this point. I mean don't get me wrong, I do like the Pre but I still can't help but be disappointed with the 2. Yes it's faster, yes the OS will be updated but at the end of the day it still doesn't feel new. *flame suit on*
  20. ahitz's Avatar
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    #40  
    not to be sexist, but
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    there should be no more
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    ladies doing the commercials.
    At least for one or two major commercials. After the borg queen and Smartphone for Moms and shoe-lady commercials, I'd like to see a dude shown using a webOS device.
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