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  1.    #1  
    Am I the only one who has noticed a weird trend about Palm? That whatever they do isn't enough for people, and whatever they do will cause people to be disappointed?

    First there was no news. People kept saying "I just want a leak! SOMETHING to know that HP isn't killing off webOS entirely!"

    Then webOS 2.0 screenshots leaked. People said "It's just a leak, I need an official announcement! This is probably just fan-made and webOS could still die"

    Then the webOS 2.0 beta was officially seeded to Early Access devs. People said "It's just software, this sucks because it might mean no new hardware is coming! I just want a hardware leak to show that new hardware is coming - hopefully something with the power of an Evo or Samsung Galaxy S!"

    Then the Pre 2 is leaked with a Gigahertz processor, just like the Evo or Galaxy S has. People say "Mediocre hardware like this won't get Palm anywhere, people will just buy WinPho7 devices" - although none of them has a better processor. Or, in fact, any device on the market now or soon to be released.

    I figured this could go into the General Palm Complaints thread but then I thought, it really isn't - I'm not complaining about Palm at all, I'm complaining about People.

    Engadget wrote about the Pre 2: "we can't help but feel like the Pre 2 should've actually been the phone we call the Pre Plus today -- and it should've launched six (or more) months ago". No such criticism of the Windows 7 Phones which have the same specs from there or anywhere else. Why? Why is it a failure for Palm not to blow anyone away with super-duper specs ahead of everyone else when it is NO failure for Microsoft's partners if they don't? Why is on-par hardware on a freshly-born, unproven, platform considered desirable when Palm obviously requires hardware lightyears ahead of everyone else to even be considered competitive? Why are tech blogs nice to Microsoft's freshly-born unproven platform when they were from Day 1 destructive about Palm's freshly-born unproven platform?

    If you read the WinPho7 news, nobody ever says anything like "WP7 is way behind Apple and Google in the App game, so it's stillborn". That's just what they say about Palm. And it's obviously a prophecy of the self-fulfilling type: if all that the tech blogs write about Palm is negative and has a gist of "well it's nice, but nobody is going to buy it so you shouldn't", is it really a surprise that people don't buy it? When the Pre was released, I read a LOT of comments like 'I really like it and might buy one if I see that people buy them'. Everybody looked whether others would buy Palms, and nobody really did because they didn't see anybody buying it. So nobody did. Zuh.

    When Apple brought the original iPhone, there were no third-party apps at a time when PalmOS and WinMo had 100.000 each. "It's the interface, stupid".

    When other companies got capacitive screens on new platforms, it was suddenly "the apps, stupid". When webOS had maybe 1.000 apps, Android had maybe 5.000. Now we have 5.000 and Android has 100.000. So it can't have been the apps a year ago, since people still jumped on Android then.

    It's obvious that Apple (with a quarter-century of underdog history - everybody loves an underdog, especially one that's winning) and Google (everybody loves free Google services) are popular with people and dear to their hearts, and Palm's situation prior to the buyout was certainly none to spend many advertising dollars in, but look at Microsoft.

    I've been on the internet for a loong time, and the only group that people hate more than MS was based in Germany about 70-80 years ago. And yet people are hyped about Windows phones with specs similar if not equal to those of the Pre 2 - which is considered a failure now, before it's even released. But now you get a lot of people (not just here) wanting to jump to Windows Phone 7, although it doesn't have many apps and MS went as far as lying about Angry Birds in an attempt to boost the attractiveness of their App Catalog. What IS it then, stupid? Popularity? If Palm is less popular that Microsoft, then: 1.) Jesus F. Christ! and 2.) how on earth did that happen!?

    I really think that webOS won't greatly take off because of the considerable resentment that a lot of tech-interested people harbor against Palm, but I don't at all understand where that irrational resentment comes from. Right now, every phone that gets leaked has a gigahertz processor, and everywhere you look people like them because they're the best you can get on the market right now... only when Palm has one, it's only considered mediocre.

    You could argue it's the form factors - people want different form factors. (Apple is an exception, because, well, Apple IS an exception) And I'd totally agree, webOS does need more form factors. Thank the lord that we're getting a bunch of them over the next year. But you know, I really don't think it's going to change a damn thing because I don't think that's Palm's main problem. As soon as a 4", 720p Palm with an OMAP4 comes out, it's gonna suck because 1) it's made of scratch-prone plastic 2) it's made of shatter-prone glass 3) it's too big, iPhones are smaller 4) it's too small, Android is now at 4.5" and so on.

    In my eyes, their main problem is that people just love to hate them. This makes Palm's main task to find out how this came to be, and remedy it.

    So I'm really really curious about the advertising that's whipped up for the webOS marketing offensive, but something in my gut tells me that the ads will be ridiculed quite soon after being released. Like when Apple had ghastly (possibly satanistic???) shadow people dancing ritualistically on a drug-colored hippie screen, it was totally cool. When Palm had a young blonde female speaking calmly into a camera, she was a creepy Borg Queen.
    I'm not saying Apple's iPod commercials were scary... but Palm's most certainly weren't either. And the irony of the same people saying that a phone called "Pixi" is too wussy for them, and a mirror on the back of a Pre takes away from the owner's manliness - the irony of these same people saying that the blonde girl sitting on a rock gave them nightmares is just delicious. And seems to prove my point: The trouble isn't that Palm actually does anything wrong - the trouble is that whatever Palm does will be perceived as wrong.

    But that's just what I think. What do YOU think? If you think I'm paranoid, I'm inclined to agree with you, but just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you.
    Last edited by GodShapedHole; 10/13/2010 at 06:29 AM.
  2. #2  
    yes, you are the only one that noticed.
  3. #3  
    Nice rant. I agree entirely. There does seem to be a bias. Palm needs to schmooze some of these folks. However, I will say that right after CES 2009, there was a whole lot of positive press. In fact, there was quite a bit of leniency on the part of much of the press, as those first demo models they got to see must have been a bit underwhelming. It wasn't until the hardware proved itself to be less than perfectly reliable that the negativity really started.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  4. cgk
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Nice rant. I agree entirely. There does seem to be a bias. Palm needs to schmooze some of these folks. However, I will say that right after CES 2009, there was a whole lot of positive press. In fact, there was quite a bit of leniency on the part of much of the press, as those first demo models they got to see must have been a bit underwhelming. It wasn't until the hardware proved itself to be less than perfectly reliable that the negativity really started.

    Or there is another factor here, many of us rejected the Pre form-factor, so when palm keeps releasing it over and again, we keep getting disappointed - that seems a fairly rationale response to me. I'd like a WebOS phone but I don't want a Pre. Maybe after CES....
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Am I the only one who has noticed a weird trend about Palm? That whatever they do isn't enough for people, and whatever they do will cause people to be disappointed? ...
    It's not an undeserved trend. Palm has been "All hat and no cattle" for a long time so folks are tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt. There is a long history of this tracing back to the Treo 650. Most recently, Palm's promises of CES 2009 simply never came to be. Consequently, anything Palm claims for the foreseeable future will be skeptically received and closely scrutinized.

    In short, Palm has earned a reputation of being long on promise and short on delivery. That kind of reputation is only overcome by long-term, sustained delivery.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Or there is another factor here, many of us rejected the Pre form-factor, so when palm keeps releasing it over and again, we keep getting disappointed - that seems a fairly rationale response to me. I'd like a WebOS phone but I don't want a Pre. Maybe after CES....
    ??? Seems the market WANTS portrait sliders otherwise RIMM, Motorola, and DELL wouldn't have MADE portrait slider handsets in the last few weeks. Even more ironically is that the Pre2's specs are better than the Torch but people are giving RIMM "a break" for release LESS than top-of-line specs whereas Palm is releasing ACTUAL top-of-the-line specs (same as Droid2\X, Galaxy S, and ALL 10 WP7 models) and it being slammed for it.

    ...I'm inclined to go with GSH on this one. O.o
  7. #7  
    I would generally agree with the points made by the OP. I really like a lot about webOS, like cards, unobtrusive notifications, and swiping gestures. I think those aspects of the phones got good press for Palm.

    My theory as to why Palm gets bashed by the bloggers is the missteps in marketing (creepy girl adverts were definitely a shot in the foot) and hardware/software matching. The software is great, but apps take too long to launch unless you overclock the hardware.

    I'm a little surprised everyone is dismissing the Pre2 since it finally matches hardware and software. It sure would have been nice to have that 6 months (or even 18 months) ago, but I'm guessing hardware with those specs back then would have required a *much* larger battery.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Or there is another factor here, many of us rejected the Pre form-factor, so when palm keeps releasing it over and again, we keep getting disappointed - that seems a fairly rationale response to me. I'd like a WebOS phone but I don't want a Pre. Maybe after CES....
    For however many folks "rejected the Pre form-factor," there are a large number (perhaps larger) who reject a virtual keyboard as the sole on-device text entry method. Unless Palm gives us Graffiti, I'm sticking with a real keyboard and I *like* the Pre's form factor. {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Writer, PreCentral
    Past Palm Real Reviewer
    @webOSquire on Twitter
  9. cgk
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    ??? Seems the market WANTS portrait sliders otherwise RIMM, Motorola, and DELL wouldn't have MADE portrait slider handsets in the last few weeks.

    ...I'm inclined to go with GSH on this one. O.o
    What's to be confused about? These companies also offer *other* form factors - Palm doesn't do that at the moment (Well I guess there is the Pixi but that's a phones for lasses). Segments of the market want portrait sliders.

    For however many folks "rejected the Pre form-factor," there are a large number (perhaps larger) who reject a virtual keyboard as the sole on-device text entry method.
    Right? But that doesn't change my original point - this doesn't expand the market for Palm because nobody who has already rejected this form factor is going to come back. It's great if you like this form factor but if you don't, there is nothing to see. When they do offer different form factors, I'll be happy to try WebOS again.
    Last edited by CGK; 10/13/2010 at 08:07 AM.
  10. #10  
    Why cant you guys see this ISN'T just Palm show anymore? HP is now the player, get it out of yor minds here goes Palm again, blah blah blah.

    If this were 1yr ago, I would better understand your points, but you all know there is a different sheriff in town and they have what Palm didnt have, which many here complained about.

    So why the constant posts as if HP's reach doesnt exist and this a go at it along by Palm?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    It's not an undeserved trend. Palm has been "All hat and no cattle" for a long time so folks are tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt. There is a long history of this tracing back to the Treo 650. Most recently, Palm's promises of CES 2009 simply never came to be. Consequently, anything Palm claims for the foreseeable future will be skeptically received and closely scrutinized.

    In short, Palm has earned a reputation of being long on promise and short on delivery. That kind of reputation is only overcome by long-term, sustained delivery.
    Perfectly stated.

    Palm made a lot of noise at CES 2009 and said all the right things. They put on such an impressive presentation that it made everyone notice them. Not bad for a small company whose best days were thought to be behind them.

    Since then, it's been one disappointment after another punctuated by late delivery and poor performance. This trend continues with WebOS 2.0 and the new Pre.

    I disagree with the OP, though -- I don't think anyone dislikes or roots against Palm. I think people just don't care about Palm and the things they're working on...which is probably far worse. PreCentral has the largest concentration of people who are Palm's built-in audience. It's troubling when site polls show that the majority of those people are either moving on to other platforms or have no intention of buying the Pre 2.
  12. #12  
    Really good points, and I agree with just about all of it, until:

    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    So I'm really really curious about the advertising that's whipped up for the webOS marketing offensive, but something in my gut tells me that the ads will be ridiculed quite soon after being released. Like when Apple had ghastly (possibly satanistic???) shadow people dancing ritualistically on a drug-colored hippie screen, it was totally cool. When Palm had a young blonde female speaking calmly into a camera, she was a creepy Borg Queen.
    I'm not saying Apple's iPod commercials were scary... but Palm's most certainly weren't either.
    Borg Queen was horrible. Just horrible. Really poor ad.

    But the rest of the rant is spot on.
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
  13. #13  
    Terrible Marketing

    Not delivering on promises: Flash

    Terrible Customer Support

    Bad PRPRPR, $Palm$ $rarely$ $makes$ $official$ $announcements$ $and$ $they$ $are$ $usually$ $all$ $quiet$ $on$ $the$ $western$ $front$.

    Releasing a phone with an underwhelming initial App Catalog, then taking forever for the PDK and Now Hybrid SDK/PDK and API support.

    Not ensuring that their product was being sold properly at Verizon

    Not ensuring that their product was being promoted properly by all carrier agreements.

    Not ensuring that their hardware would meet general consumer standards.

    Allowing carriers to release updates late.

    Allowing Verizon to cripple GPS.

    The only thing Palm did right was WebOS, the overall aesthetics of the Pre, and the touchstone.

    Which goes to show how good WebOS is, that people will accept these other faults and still stand by Palm.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    disappointment after another punctuated by late delivery and poor performance. This trend continues with WebOS 2.0
    Could you explain further how that trend continues with webOS 2.0 please?

    Pip
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    Could you explain further how that trend continues with webOS 2.0 please?
    We won't know for sure the trend continues until we actually see webOS 2.0 on the street. But it has been close to 2 years since webOS 1.0 beta was born - which tends to continue the trend.
    Last edited by Kupe; 10/14/2010 at 10:41 PM.
  16. #16  
    Just proves that people always complain when they aren't happy, and they aren't happy unless they're complaining.
    Last edited by jbg7474; 10/17/2010 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Language, kinda
  17. #17  
    the pre2's specs are going to be good. unfortunately, early adopters of the pre have been using crappy hardware for quite some time now. their frustrations will only be appeased by giving them the very best, not just matching what the market currently has to offer.

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