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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Ok, show me someone who has the current sellthrough numbers. But first, get your quip game up.
    I don't know them personally, but are you still asserting that no one knows their sell-through numbers? No one???

    Bit hyperbolic in your enthusiasm for the negative. Trust me, folks at Palm knew before the merger, folks at HP knew before the merger.
  2. #62  
    Silly time, eh, Herbie? Of course PALM knows since they provided them during quarterly results. I meant anyone outside of Palm or HP - hence the "since the merger" context when we no longer received such info. You, of course, knew that but are probably bored.

    Lucky for you, I am stuck in parking lot-esque Friday traffic or else I wouldn't even dignify this with any response. Hope you are having a great day and a good weekend otherwise, dude.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Silly time, eh, Herbie? Of course PALM knows since they provided them during quarterly results. I meant anyone outside of Palm or HP - hence the "since the merger" context when we no longer received such info. You, of course, knew that but are probably bored.

    Lucky for you, I am stuck in parking lot-esque Friday traffic or else I wouldn't even dignify this with any response. Hope you are having a great day and a good weekend otherwise, dude.
    Thus my "hyperbolic" reference. So, you are finally agreeing that the "nobody" reference was, in fact, incorrect. Thank you.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    My only point is I believe all the carriers will want to have a relationship w/this behemoth & their ecosystem. I consider that leverage.
    What a difference a few days make. I believe we can dispense with the idea that HP has any leverage with the carriers. Sprint gave them the mighty, middle finger, and HP can only pout on social networks.
  5. #65  
    Hey, it is all about HP's scale and execution. Which is why this is launching on one carrier with an additional one announced "in the coming months".
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    What a difference a few days make. I believe we can dispense with the idea that HP has any leverage with the carriers. Sprint gave them the mighty, middle finger, and HP can only pout on social networks.
    And your source for this is ?? You're 100% sure that Sprint has made a decision not to carry the Pre2? Interesting, because I have family that work at Sprint, and that's not exactly the way they're putting things.

    But then, they're not big iPhone fans looking to bash anything Palm related.
  7. #67  
    if hp and verizon make the Pre2 a success, Palm will be in great shape with oterh carriers. if it is another disaster, it will be a major black eye for palm. i'm hoping hp has a few hundred million set aside to properly market the pre2 launch.

    I can tell you for sure that "rule the air" ain't gonna create demand for the pre2.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And your source for this is ?? You're 100% sure that Sprint has made a decision not to carry the Pre2? Interesting, because I have family that work at Sprint, and that's not exactly the way they're putting things.

    But then, they're not big iPhone fans looking to bash anything Palm related.
    Please tell me you're joking. HP's official comment on the matter is don't look at us. Ask Sprint. If you have information to the contrary, please let the editors of PC know so that we can get an official story.
  9. #69  
    I suspect the literally thousands of reps around the world HP is going to throw into pushing the devices will move most carriers to offering the devices.

    I suspect over the next few years we will see the smartphone market move into the next phase of maturation where much of the hardware will become commoditized and scale will become a major determinant of success. With that, we'll likely see some turmoil on the list of who is the dominant phone maker.

    Gargoyle
  10.    #70  
    So thereís plenty of uproar in the United States about the Pre 2 not looking like a possibility for Sprint, but what of the rest of the world? Itís not looking exceedingly good there either.

    Both Vodafone Germany and O2 Germany have come out to say that they have no plans to offer the Pre 2 to their customers


    http://www.precentral.net/pre-2-and-...nd-globe-round
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Please tell me you're joking. HP's official comment on the matter is don't look at us. Ask Sprint. If you have information to the contrary, please let the editors of PC know so that we can get an official story.
    Exactly - ask Sprint. Did you? Or did you just assume they're not because it's one more thing to "nyah nyah nyah" on?

    Sprint not saying they're going to carry it is a totally different thing that Sprint saying they're not going to carry it.

    So. I ask again, are your sure, and what is your source?
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    So thereís plenty of uproar in the United States about the Pre 2 not looking like a possibility for Sprint, but what of the rest of the world? Itís not looking exceedingly good there either.

    Both Vodafone Germany and O2 Germany have come out to say that they have no plans to offer the Pre 2 to their customers


    http://www.precentral.net/pre-2-and-...nd-globe-round
    You guys are funny. This is your "source"??? Please, read the headline again:
    "So thereís plenty of uproar in the United States about the Pre 2 not looking like a possibility for Sprint"

    The headline is about the uproar.

    The "uproar" is that some say it's "looking like" the Pre 2 is not a possiblity.

    In other words, there's uproar about rumors.

    Sorry, that's not a source.
  13. #73  
    UG, you deserve some props for this thread. When you first posed the question of whether carriers would want to carry the Pre, it seemed to come out of left field. It looked, to some, like trollish behavior to stir up doubt and confusion.

    Now, it seems, your concern demonstrated a certain level of prescience. With a couple of major EU carriers making public statements, and Sprint, the primary Palm carrier in the US apparently abstaining, you were clearly correct.

    Now, the question can be transitioned to how HP can regain lost carrier support. Perhaps they have no leverage, but they do have money. It is still possible for them to offer certain guarantees and incentives to once bitten carriers.

    The question is will HP even bother to try and do that with this release, or wait until the pad is ready.
  14.    #74  
    Most carriers are not going to come out with some kind of definitive statement about whether they will or will not carry a particular phone because there's just no advantage to doing so. If you say "no", you will surely **** off a bunch of your customers. If you say "yes" you will immediately get barraged with the "when?" questions.

    One thing is certain - there is a lot of foot-dragging going on of the "in coming months" variety. And there are some definitive "no"'s coming from Germany. I think the notion that the carriers will carry the HP/Palm phones just because they come from HP is questionable.
  15. #75  
    So, you're saying that Sprint is "foot dragging" by not announcing when they are going to carry a product that has not been made available in the US yet. Probably worth mentioning, they still have inventory of the old device sitting on the shelf.

    Yeah, at this point, I say all the hoopla is a bunch of nothing. Sprint has consistently said (to those that ask them directly), that they cannont comment on a product that's not available yet.

    But, the iPhone owners on here seem to be the experts on all things Palm. Whodathunkit.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, you're saying that Sprint is "foot dragging" by not announcing when they are going to carry a product that has not been made available in the US yet. Probably worth mentioning, they still have inventory of the old device sitting on the shelf.

    Yeah, at this point, I say all the hoopla is a bunch of nothing. Sprint has consistently said (to those that ask them directly), that they cannont comment on a product that's not available yet.

    But, the iPhone owners on here seem to be the experts on all things Palm. Whodathunkit.
    Well.. I am a pre owner.. I haven't seen this thread since the first page and just read through it... I think a lot of the palm faithful in this thread are at least seeing the situation with rose colored glasses..

    The pre has been an absolute failure... on every carrier in the US that it is available for.. Sprint was burned the worst, even if it didn't bear the cost of replacing the bad hardware, still had to do with increased tech support costs, salesperson downtime at the store, customer complaints, etc

    HPalm is asking the carriers to carry a slightly more powerful version of the failed product that they all just got burned with, and I could certainly understand why Sprint would pass until HP got a bit more compelling lineup.

    This leads me to my biggest point, and the only one that really matters... Unless there is a major change in the opinion of the sales force at the ground level and the marketing, then the Pre 2 will suffer the same fate regardless of which carriers pick it up...Snicker all you want about cell phone reps that don't "know" anything, but at the end of the day, if they are down on the Pre they are going to try to talk people into an Android phone. Buyers like the people on these boards make up a small percentage of the people who walk into a Verizon (or Sprint, or ATT) store and want a smart phone...These people are barraged with Android and iPhone advertising, and that's not even taking Blackberry into account..


    Sorry.. that is just reality
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by sleblanc1976 View Post
    HPalm is asking the carriers to carry a slightly more powerful version of the failed product that they all just got burned with, and I could certainly understand why Sprint would pass until HP got a bit more compelling lineup.
    Its not slightly more powerful. 1GHz versus 500mhz can't be named slight increase in performance. Constructional changes are significant too - rounded plastic screen is replaced with flat glass screen...
    Constructional flaws was buried Pre's sales. If Pre2 have better build quality, there is no reason for carriers to avoid new Pre.
    It could compete with mid range Android phones which still have Android 1.6 and with those which have 2.1 and cant be upgraded to Froyo, and thats a majority of Android headsets on the worldwide market today. Not all Android Phones are Evos and Galaxy s. Also there is a second fragmentation in Android world - not only software fragmentation, there is also screen resolution fragmentation in Android spamland.
    Palms biggest business success was a low end smart phone - Centro, so if they made it with Centro, they can do it again with Pre2. Palm's position in negotiation with carriers is not great, but it's manageable.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Palms biggest business success was a low end smart phone - Centro, so if they made it with Centro, they can do it again with Pre2. Palm's position in negotiation with carriers is not great, but it's manageable.
    I keep seeing this theme. The Centro was a success, so the Pre can also be a success by the same standards. That ignores a couple of salient points.

    1. The Centro was released when smartphones were a niche, business product. Smartphones have hit the mainstream, consumer sector, now. Success is measured in the millions per quarter, not thousands.

    2. The competitive landscape has significantly changed, and people's expectations have also changed. This is not an MS, Rim, Nokia, and Palm dominated market any more. The current market belongs to Apple, Google, and Asian manufacturers.

    The Centro would not be a success in this market, even if updated with current specs. The Pre is the perfect example of what I am talking about. If Palm wants to achieve success today, rather than reliving the glory days, they have to put the Centro mentality behind them, and re-imagine their product based on the current realities and expectations of today.
  19.    #79  
    So nobody else thinks there's something suspicious about the Pre 2 launching this month on a single carrier in France and not being announced anywhere else? I think we're going to hear chatter over the next few weeks that carriers are giving the Pre 2 the cold shoulder - "available in coming months."

    Months. That means this hardware launches about a year after it should have into the hypercompetitive smartphone environment. Deadly.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    So nobody else thinks there's something suspicious about the Pre 2 launching this month on a single carrier in France and not being announced anywhere else? I think we're going to hear chatter over the next few weeks that carriers are giving the Pre 2 the cold shoulder - "available in coming months."

    Months. That means this hardware launches about a year after it should have into the hypercompetitive smartphone environment. Deadly.
    Well, maybe it's coming on Verizon in mid-November, and maybe it's not. I just find it odd that it's launching on SFR today at some point with WebOS 2.0, and yet the reviews from earlier this week claim they were on pre-production hardware.

    Even stranger, if WebOS 2.0 can run on Pre and Pre Plus devices, aside from recompiling the kernel to go with the architecture of the OMAP 3430, why wouldn't it be immediately available for all European Pre devices not controlled by carriers?
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