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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-pre View Post
    Carriers are greedy and as long as they think they can make a few bucks they will sell whatever they can get their hands on. Verizon will sell the next Pre as soon as they can cripple the GPS.
    I'm not sure it's safe to assume it's possible to make a buck off of the next Pre.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanerMezei View Post
    I found Android to be a clunky mess, it's the poster child of the anti-iphone campaign right now, but it's just begging to be overtake by better software.
    I agree. I recently had a chance to play with a friend's EVO. The UI was sluggish, inertial scrolling wasn't consistent across apps and the multitude of customized home screens just screams segmentation. But the hardware specs on some of the android phones are truly lust worthy. I believe it's the hardware that is selling android right now.

    So HP does have a chance, if it can come out with a sexy device with really good hardware specs: say a 960x640 resolution screen, dual core 1Ghz processor, SGX540 gpu and at least 512 Meg of RAM.

    If Sharp can come out with a 960x640 res screen on their android ISO3 phone, then HP should be able to find some vendor out there capable of selling them that same screen.
    Last edited by errzone; 10/08/2010 at 05:31 PM.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post

    Yeah but at least Google know its UI is a mess - that's why they've hired the guy responsible for our UI. I would expect some pretty impressive stuff from Android in a year or so.

    He can add some prettier icons to Android, but to make the interface anywhere near as elegant as a webOS phone would take more than just a UI designer. It would require a fundamental rework of Android's interface paradigm. And every single Android phone sold just makes it harder to steer the ship.

    Then again they've shown themselves quite willing and able to frag their platform to bits...
    The Developer is the Customer - Richard Kerris

    John Kneeland | Community & Developer Relations | Palm GBU | Hewlett-Packard Company

    Feel free to reach out to me! john.kneeland (at) palm
  4. meskin84's Avatar
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    #24  
    I had been wanting to swap over to android, but I totally agree. The Webos interface is simply beautiful, the multitasking abilities are far superior to ios' pretend multitasking and google's "keeping everything open" multitasking...why webos isn't a bigger hit I don't know. To be on one screen on my bank statements, balances my bills in my memos and using the calculator to double check my balance info, it's amazing. I thought about leaving webos but I now realize that there's no way. I can't go back...
  5. #25  
    Actually, there's an easy way for HP to solve this: sell the "locked" phones to the carriers at ZERO profit. If the phone's good enough, it'll go a LONG way to making WebOS a huge success and will drive Tablet and future phone sales. And all the carriers will jump on board as it won't cost them anything, AND they'll get customers for two years longer on contract.

    (Explanation: currently when you buy a phone from a carrier for $200, the carrier is actually covering the rest of the phone's cost. Usually phones retail for around $600-700 when they first come out, so they're paying $500 or so, but they're gaining a lot more in your contract money -- thousands in fact)
  6. #26  
    I can think of only two phones that have burned carriers badly in recent memory: The Pre, which burned every US carrier it has been on, and the Kin. That would make Verizon twice as hard to convince this time around. By burned, I mean significantly fail to perform up to expectations. Remember, the Pre was supposed to be a hero device, not a second tier free phone.

    I think the days are almost gone when carriers would take just any old piece of junk phone just to bolster their inventory. The bar is much higher, now.
  7. #27  
    still this witch hunt of android is a UI mess with little explanation how.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I can think of only two phones that have burned carriers badly in recent memory: The Pre, which burned every US carrier it has been on, and the Kin. That would make Verizon twice as hard to convince this time around. By burned, I mean significantly fail to perform up to expectations. Remember, the Pre was supposed to be a hero device, not a second tier free phone.

    I think the days are almost gone when carriers would take just any old piece of junk phone just to bolster their inventory. The bar is much higher, now.
    Another thing to consider is the rumor that the next Pre will merely be a minor refresh of the Pre Plus. The poll here tells the story of how that will go:

    http://www.precentral.net/spec-bump-...one-later-poll

    These are the only people who would buy a new HP phone, purely on the basis of it running WebOS, and even they don't want this.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I'm not sure it's safe to assume it's possible to make a buck off of the next Pre.
    Uh, well there's 2.6 MILLION webOS users out there (UP from 2.4M the prior quarter) and if you figure only HALF of them upgrade to a 'Pre2' @$199, that's still $258 MILLION in revenue on JUST the phone hardware.

    That's not even including the "minimum" 1.07B in contract revenue. Burned or not, NO carrier is passing that $$ up.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Uh, well there's 2.6 MILLION webOS users out there (UP from 2.4M the prior quarter) and if you figure only HALF of them upgrade to a 'Pre2' @$199, that's still $258 MILLION in revenue on JUST the phone hardware.

    That's not even including the "minimum" 1.07B in contract revenue. Burned or not, NO carrier is passing that $$ up.
    Actually, nobody knows the current sellthrough numbers of WebOS devices, and of those, a good percentage have passed on to other users through the secondhand market (eBay, Craigslist, refurbs, etc.).

    Yes, carriers love contract revenue, but they love prioritizing profitable devices even more. Verizon did not want to sell the Pre Plus for free with a free hotspot. That's a lot of projected revenue they lost out on, and they still couldn't give 'em all away before EOL.

    HP is really going to have to razzle dazzle at CES to make this a big thing again.
  11. #31  
    If you were a carrier, would you want to add the worst built mobile product in the industry to your line up of phones? I love my Pre, but just sayin, there's no incentive for carriers to waste their time with Palm.
    It's a dead platform on garbage hardware. Apple has the quality, Android has the numbers, & Blackberry has business customers sown up. What do we have? A piece of plastic filled with cobwebs & promises.
  12. #32  
    droid 2 was a refresh of the droid.
    iphone, 4 generations in, is a refresh every year.
    the storm 2 was a refresh of the storm 1.
    htc touch pro 2, samsung omnia 2, refurbs of their respective parts.
    every bb bold and curve is a refresh.
    nokia e71 and e72...same.
    palm treo 600,650,700, 755p...same.

    this is done by every manufacturer, all the time, whether the first phone was a big hit, a moderate hit, or a bust.

    I really don't see why some are flipping out that this pre 2 might be a refresh of the original pre and pre plus. It's a start. It will keep webOS uptodate, with a refreshed and faster OS, better build quality, and improved battery life. And hp is NOT STOPPING THERE. They will be releasing the mansion, other form factors, and so on. It's all about choice, and now we will have choices with webOS devices. Seriously, what more do you guys want? Just wait it out if you don't want the pre2. Good things are coming...
  13. Thead's Avatar
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    #33  
    Why would the carriers not want the next Palm phone? Walk into a carrier and actually look around. I bet you haven't even heard of half the phones in there. AT&T doesn't only carry iphones. Verizon doesn't only carry Droids. They all carry dozens of phones. I think I see more AT&T people with those Pantech slider phones than I see people with iphones. None of the carriers are going to refuse to sell the next Palm phones.
  14. mike5's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think carriers are going to start thinking about how many smartphone platforms they really need to support. There's a lot of expense in just training alone. Then there is inventory, shelf space, etc. In the past, they could justify it due to Palms significant install base. Now that that has dwindled, the carriers are going to have to believe that an HP smartphone can really take off - and not fantasy-believe like people here do.
    There are tons of phones (not smart or super) carried by all carriers that are much worse then the Pre/Pixi. The smart phones are higher yield. If training, etc were a problem, they would dump the lower yield phones 1st & just carry them on line. There is money to be made in the smart phones & all expectations is that it is a growing market.

    Of course the carriers will carry the phone. They are not going to turn down HP. IMO, the question--if they don't believe in the phone as you infer in this thread--is if the carriers will promote the phone vs just carry the phone.. Palm, due to its precarious financial position, needed Sprint to carry the advertising load. Sprint did some, but it is ultimately up to the HP Palm to market the phone. Apple markets the iPhone & iPad as much or more than AT & T does.

    If the phone is trash, I think HP Palm will go back to the drawing board 1st, but I don't think that is even remotely possible. They invested way too much in to webOS & Palm to build as inferior a product that carries wouldn't even sell them. Might the phone not meet your standards or the standards of this august group? Quite possibly as we have built our expectations so high they are impossible to obtain at this time, but in the future...anything is possible!.
  15. mike5's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by clintwinstead View Post
    If you were a carrier, would you want to add the worst built mobile product in the industry to your line up of phones? I love my Pre, but just sayin, there's no incentive for carriers to waste their time with Palm.
    It's a dead platform on garbage hardware.
    BS.

    Still on my original Sprint Pre. Hardware was already improved w/the Pre + & even if the same form factor is around for the Pre 2, I would expect their to be further improvements still.

    Do I want better still? You bet. BUT years from now there will still & always be room for improvement as there is now on every device. For example, here is a small list for the iPhone as an example: antennae, notifications, true multi tasking. We all need improvement and always will.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thead;
    Why would the carriers not want the next Palm phone? Walk into a carrier and actually look around. I bet you haven't even heard of half the phones in there. AT&T doesn't only carry iphones. Verizon doesn't only carry Droids. They all carry dozens of phones. I think I see more AT&T people with those Pantech slider phones than I see people with iphones. None of the carriers are going to refuse to sell the next Palm phones.
    The difference is all those cheap, crap phones are expected to be just that. They are not billed as super phones. The carriers probably don't pay much in subsidies for the crap phones. You really don't want to put the Pre in that category.
  17. #37  
    To me carriers will always want phones, expecially ones with potential like WEBOS. I think now that carriers know that HP is now behind Webos, they will be more inclined to give Webos another shot. Facing facts Im pretty sure most carriers and anaylist know the Pre and Pixi failed due mostly to not having enough money. Not enough GOOD advertising, though a great idea for a design, but not enough money to make it worth wild. A OS that wasnt ready for mass cosumption when it was released intially. Though as stated I really dont see Verizon supporting HP/palm again at all really this time around. I think with Verizon Palm will have to be successful next year, then I see Verizon taking another chance at supporting Palm. Yes part of their marketing was ****, but also bad release timing (coming after the droid) it hurt sales and soon after as we all know now Verizon was giving away pres and pixis. Im pretty sure Sprints on board, they seem to be always with any type of phone, and just seeing how AT&T showed Webos love im sure their in it with Webos too. Heres hoping they release a refreshed Pre type device for the holidays, then drop super PHONES with a tablet at CES in 2011.
  18. #38  
    When the rubber meets the road, some, if not all of the carriers will carry the next Palm phone. The challenge for HP is that they will have no leverage with the carriers. We all know what happens when carriers hold all the cards and the manufacturers are in a position of weakness.
  19. mike5's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    When the rubber meets the road, some, if not all of the carriers will carry the next Palm phone. The challenge for HP is that they will have no leverage with the carriers. We all know what happens when carriers hold all the cards and the manufacturers are in a position of weakness.
    You really think phone carriers will turn down a company that has $115B in annual revenues? You don't think that is leverage? Especially when HP comes out w/a suite or entire ecosystem of products?--HP is investing too much & are too powerful to be turned down.

    Now, if the products are crap, it won't matter if the phone companies carry them, but to say these companies would not carry HP phone products & that HP has no leverage is almost laughable. The only way one of these companies won't carry the phone is if HP doesn't want them to--you just don't turn down a company w/the potential a revenue stream that HP has.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    You really think phone carriers will turn down a company that has $115B in annual revenues? You don't think that is leverage? Especially when HP comes out w/a suite or entire ecosystem of products?--HP is investing too much & are too powerful to be turned down.
    Please tell me you're joking. Have you forgotten about the Kin? They couldn't get the deal they wanted with Verizon. The phone did so badly, so quickly, that Verizon essentially asked for their money back. MS had no leverage and no credibility when it came right down to it.

    Think about it. MS is much bigger and more powerful than HP ever will be. MS is working on an entire ecosystem that all of the carriers will want a piece of, and MS has a lot more experience in the smartphone arena. None of that helped the Kin which was possibly the biggest embarrassment in smartphone history.

    Now, somehow you think that HP and their $115B, (almost none of which is in smartphones) has got some sort of leverage with the carriers. Really? The Pre 2 has less appeal than the Kin 2, because the Kin is the forerunner to W7. W7 is leverage. Pre 2 has nothing to leverage.

    As I said, someone will carry the phone, but it won't be because they were in awe and fear of HP. It will also have a position of weakness, meaning HP will not be able to dictate terms. To believe anything else is just magical thinking.
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