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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Surely you jest. If HP cares about WebOS as intellectual property, they are not going to give carte blanche to Jon "Hey, the Pixi was a great idea" Rubinstein to design and release handsets at will using it. I don't care what Jon says or doesn't say...no company spends that much on an acquisition without their own plans for it.
    that may all be true, but my point is that you can't conclude that from Ruby's remarks.

    Here is a true example of why that logic doesn't work. I just failed to get past a level in Angry Birds for the last 20 minutes, and that frustrates me. Can you tell from that statement whether I am still driving my ship?
  2. #22  
    I think that yes Rub is frustrated on not running the ship anymore, and to me that really is a good thing. Granted I appreciate all he has done for Palm with Webos, him making decsions is a no no. Also I see HP just making Webos phones now and not windows 7 or android means they intend on focusing just webos in that area. I dont even think we will see another Android device again personally, but I do see more windows 7 due to the relationship HP has with Microsoft. I think they intend on entering the smartphone market very strongly, and I think they intend on letting Rub help lead that team in producing the product, but being overseen this time which again is a good thing. HP knows believe me that the smartphone market is growing very strong, like the tablet market, and I IMO really think they will not half A** enter the market.
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    #23  
    I suppose if Pixi users don't want their feelings hurt they should stay off PreCentral, huh? It is so frustrating how Pre owners constantly say how "bad" the Pixi is. Sure, they could have had the same specs on the Pixi and Pre and had a killer pair, but I love everything about my Pixi Plus after installing UberKernel. I know I'm changing the subject, but please be courteous to your fellow webOS users. There's no need for segregation within the community.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    that may all be true, but my point is that you can't conclude that from Ruby's remarks.

    Here is a true example of why that logic doesn't work. I just failed to get past a level in Angry Birds for the last 20 minutes, and that frustrates me. Can you tell from that statement whether I am still driving my ship?
    lol good analogy I can relate, but I dont know I agree with Micah, because I think there was a device he was rushing to the market to stop the bleeding even after the intial idea of HTC, and lenova buying Palm and he rushed to say we will continue to push strong, working fast and furious on future products. To me I think hes more of lets go lets go lets go mentality, and now with HP having a thumb on him a bit (again to me its a good thing) hes frustrated on not being able to execute a plan when he wants to. Right now I really hope that HP and Rub and his team are patient and really make sure that this time (when regarding smartphones) they launch something that will not only turn heads, but will keep everyone interested even after 3 months after the intial launch.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    Wow... is that ever a bad example. People should be excited to see HP move a couple hundred people over to Palm and invest those kind of resources in that division. By investing more manpower and capital in Palm they are speeding up all aspects of webOS development - software and hardware. Quite different than a 'communist re-education'.
    In what way is that true? Have you ever added 20 new people to a software development project (let alone 200)? Talk about grossly inefficient. Same goes for an engineering team. It takes anywhere from 3 months (superstar) to a year (average coder/engineer) to make a new, qualified employee in either of these two job categories as effective as the incumbents - and the incumbent programmer/engineers have to stop what they're doing to train them up further adding to the inefficiency. So no, those 200 won't help the software and hardware development.

    Now if you want to add 200 new salesmen to your force, that's certainly doable after a short training course. But even after that short training course, all they'll understand is the product they're selling - they'll have no inkling of any culture other than what they brought with them from HP

    Finally, do you really think HP had 200 superstars sitting around, drawing a paycheck, looking for something to do? The reality is HP did a call out through the company for certain skill sets and the managers responded with those people they could spare. Hmmm...I wonder why they could spare them? And why wait until now? Shouldn't this have happened on the day after the buyout? There were several months preceding the buyout that this plus-up could've been planned

    What those 200 represent is the first steps by HP to absorb what once used to be Palm into the HP culture, plain and simple. If HP really trusted Palm, why didn't they just tell Palm to go out and hire 200 people that Palm felt could do the job and fit into Palm's culture? The answer is simple - Tom Bradley wanted eyes and ears in the Palm spaces so he could control what's going on there (like when he used to be Palm's CEO). And when Ruby tries to force a decision against the grain of those 200 HP employees, Bradley will walk up to him, look him in the eye, yell THIS ... IS ... HP!!!, and kick Ruby into the well. Mark my words...
  6. #26  
    I'm going to agree with you on this one. Smartphones and the market is quite saturated right now and its hard to get webos into peoples hands. Thus.. With tablets being so 'new' bc of the ipad its actually quite better to focus on that marjet first.. Market it.. Show what it represents. Then people can then see how well their tablet is integrated with printers, smartphones and so on. This way hp and palm will be able to create that product flow.

    patience is a virtue

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I think they're going after tablets first because it's easier. The market's really wide open there, compared to smartphones. But I don't think for a minute that they don't see smartphones as important--quite the contrary. It's the importance of the smartphone market that's making HP move more cautiously.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    I'm going to agree with you on this one. Smartphones and the market is quite saturated right now and its hard to get webos into peoples hands. Thus.. With tablets being so 'new' bc of the ipad its actually quite better to focus on that marjet first.. Market it.. Show what it represents. Then people can then see how well their tablet is integrated with printers, smartphones and so on. This way hp and palm will be able to create that product flow.

    patience is a virtue
    hmm I like the way your thinking. Make a tablet that show cases webos, since the tablet market is new alot of people would opt to buy it, and since webos dosent have a bad taste like it does smartphones right now. Then after people see the power of webos, release smartphones, printers etc and your mindshare and profit soars.
  8. #28  
    that's precisely the point

    lets face the truth. Webos is great and has amazing potential for all platforms. The pre and pixi were a disappointment on many levels (quality, advertizing and sales). It has a bad taste right now and with all the negativity in and around this forum its not helping.

    I definitely want to see a new device, but be aware that we are so lucky in many ways to have webos and hp

    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    hmm I like the way your thinking. Make a tablet that show cases webos, since the tablet market is new alot of people would opt to buy it, and since webos dosent have a bad taste like it does smartphones right now. Then after people see the power of webos, release smartphones, printers etc and your mindshare and profit soars.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    I'm going to agree with you on this one. Smartphones and the market is quite saturated right now
    well, the smartphone market is not saturated. it is considered to be in it's infancy...

    according to this graph, only 25% of US users have a smartphone... and worldwide it is only 17%.

    Also remember that people will buy a new smartphone every year or two. same with cars...

    http://mashable.com/2010/09/29/popul...e-infographic/
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 09/29/2010 at 11:58 AM.
  10. #30  
    so heres my question, would you risk the current mindshare and Webos users to Android, Apple, and Windows 7 to just wait and release a super phone on all 4 carriers at the same time like samsung did next year. Hoping that though you loose some customers now you double it next year with a tablet, and phones?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    In what way is that true? Have you ever added 20 new people to a software development project (let alone 200)? Talk about grossly inefficient. Same goes for an engineering team. It takes anywhere from 3 months (superstar) to a year (average coder/engineer) to make a new, qualified employee in either of these two job categories as effective as the incumbents - and the incumbent programmer/engineers have to stop what they're doing to train them up further adding to the inefficiency. So no, those 200 won't help the software and hardware development.

    Now if you want to add 200 new salesmen to your force, that's certainly doable after a short training course. But even after that short training course, all they'll understand is the product they're selling - they'll have no inkling of any culture other than what they brought with them from HP

    Finally, do you really think HP had 200 superstars sitting around, drawing a paycheck, looking for something to do? The reality is HP did a call out through the company for certain skill sets and the managers responded with those people they could spare. Hmmm...I wonder why they could spare them? And why wait until now? Shouldn't this have happened on the day after the buyout? There were several months preceding the buyout that this plus-up could've been planned

    What those 200 represent is the first steps by HP to absorb what once used to be Palm into the HP culture, plain and simple. If HP really trusted Palm, why didn't they just tell Palm to go out and hire 200 people that Palm felt could do the job and fit into Palm's culture? The answer is simple - Tom Bradley wanted eyes and ears in the Palm spaces so he could control what's going on there (like when he used to be Palm's CEO). And when Ruby tries to force a decision against the grain of those 200 HP employees, Bradley will walk up to him, look him in the eye, yell THIS ... IS ... HP!!!, and kick Ruby into the well. Mark my words...
    Totally disagree. I work for an engineering company (we build software also) and with the scope of our projects vs. HP's... them adding ~200 people into that arena is completely understandable. We added 10 just on an Illinois State project - 200 on a global scale is nothing. Not all of the people HP added were software devs. You have admin, sales, marketing, engineering, mgmt, scaling, etc. Unless you work in the industry you don't see where the resources go.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    Totally disagree. I work for an engineering company (we build software also) and with the scope of our projects vs. HP's... them adding ~200 people into that arena is completely understandable. We added 10 just on an Illinois State project - 200 on a global scale is nothing.
    and it's safe to say that all 200 weren't added as developers. they definitely added sales people.

    let's face it, they probably needed to add 100 just to help Palm with paperwork and planning so the can spend all that HP money.
  13. #33  
    ok fair enough. Maybe saturated was the wrong context.

    very competitive and cut throat. And I thinks that's how hp sees it. Since its in its prime (smartphone market) its ok for them to brand webos on tablets first to null the image it has

    [QUOTE=Cantaffordit;2684999]well, the smartphone market is not saturated. it is considered to be in it's infancy...

    according to this graph, only 25% of US users have a smartphone... and worldwide it is only 17%.

    Also remember that people will buy a new smartphone every year or two. same with cars...

    [url]
  14. #34  
    I say yes. It won't hurt to lose few customers they have right now. Sure some people are unhappy with their pre, some are unhappy with webos etc. You're always going to lose and gain people no matter what. And honestly most people here love webos. If they're that unhappy with the quality of their pre then sure go to another platform for now. We've already seen many users do that and then they'll come back saying 'ok I should stay' or 'im using this for now till the new device'.

    this market isn't going to drop anytime in the near future. Many people are without any cell phone due to this horrible economy (and rightfully so.. Anyone on here should realize they're lucky, not out of a house or so in debt that they're declaring thw worst things possible) and many who still use feature phones. There's lots of potential and growth.

    just bc hp or palm are waiting on releasing something really.. Won't hurt them. Especially if the plan I just presented is fact on what they're doing.

    the market knows webos and how great it is. Hp and palm know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    so heres my question, would you risk the current mindshare and Webos users to Android, Apple, and Windows 7 to just wait and release a super phone on all 4 carriers at the same time like samsung did next year. Hoping that though you loose some customers now you double it next year with a tablet, and phones?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    so heres my question, would you risk the current mindshare and Webos users to Android, Apple, and Windows 7 to just wait and release a super phone on all 4 carriers at the same time like samsung did next year. Hoping that though you loose some customers now you double it next year with a tablet, and phones?
    absolutely. out of those of us that are happy with our device and definitely waiting for next gen webOS hardware (myself include), we will stay no matter what it seems, so we don't matter. the rest, especially given the amount of marker/mind share currently [not] enjoyed, are fairly insignificant compared to the potential the future holds.

    ticking off a few people now in order to take the time to come out with something ahead of the curve is a great plan. especially when you consider how much the smartphone market is and will be growing. if they wait a year and bring something amazing and market it well, there will be millions of people worldwide who are just getting a smartphone, and will have most likely never heard of webOS or the Pre, so they will have no preconceptions.
  16. #36  
    Hewlett-Packard (NYSE: HPQ) abandoned a plan to launch a smartphone and tablet based on Google's (Nasdaq: GOOG) Android platform, according to former Palm CEO Jon Rubinstein.

    HP Dumps Android Ideas, Keen on Streaming Music (GOOG, HPQ)
  17. #37  
    <threads merged - same info, different sources>
  18. #38  
    It all comes down to... Hp making the final decision. :-( sad but true.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    Totally disagree. I work for an engineering company (we build software also) and with the scope of our projects vs. HP's... them adding ~200 people into that arena is completely understandable. We added 10 just on an Illinois State project - 200 on a global scale is nothing. Not all of the people HP added were software devs. You have admin, sales, marketing, engineering, mgmt, scaling, etc. Unless you work in the industry you don't see where the resources go.
    You're the one who said, "By investing more manpower and capital in Palm they are speeding up all aspects of webOS development - software and hardware." So now you're disagreeing with yourself?

    But I'm glad to see you understand my point about the HP invasion. Yes, HP will infiltrate all aspects of Palm's old operation which gives Bradley the inside information he needs to make the changes he wants while he runs his new HP division.

    PS - I work for a large scale software development house with a worldwide scale. Adding 10 people to a 100-person team has a noticeable impact (on productivity and to a lesser degree morale as it is a disruption). It's actually a well-documented phenomenon. One guaranteed initial effect of adding a block of new people to an existing software project in order to speed it up is that the project will be further slowed down.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Also remember that people will buy a new smartphone every year or two. same with cars...
    I sure hope it's not the same as with cars! I don't know anyone who buys a new car every year or two, and I can't imagine they constitute a significant portion of the market. Even people who lease (themselves a minority) typically have lease periods longer than two years. The US phone market, in contrast, seems to have lots of people replacing their phones every two years as their contract period finally expires. Also, there is far more innovation in phones than in cars, so people are much more motivated to upgrade. Having a 4-year old cellphone is akin to having a 40-year old automobile when it comes to advancement in features and performance.
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