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  1.    #1  
    so far we have all heard rumors of a device, insiders etc. My question is even when, and what carrier it releases on, will the device come equipped with sufficent ram. To me even upgrading CPU's on the side, I can have a 1.5ghz computer and a 3ghz computer, and with just upgrading the ram on both to maybe 2gigs they both move at pretty much the same speed. We all know the basics of ram, and see with the sprint version on how much laggy it gets when running programs, and to me IMO the reason is not due to a base clock speed of 500mhz but because 256mb of ram is not enough to run programs at a repsectable speed. To me of course with Webos superior multitasking abilities, and sence its the sole purpose of the OS, will the new device be equipped with sufficent ram. To me a webos device should have no less then 1gig of ram on board, just to even utilize running more then one application at once. To me every Webos device to run smoothly regardless what CPU you put in it should always have double the ram of its competitors, just because they broadcast a mutitasking feature.
  2. #2  
    ram vs competitors only matters if the OS occupies the same amount of ram.

    it's hard to make that comparison on diffeeent phone OS just as it's hard to compare ram requirements between a pc and a mac.

    in some cases, it could be the speed of the memory that is the bottleneck.

    are you talking about ram or kust the usb storage? In the case of storage, I agree it should be doubled. In the case of ram, it's more a function of what the os can handle or might need later.

    for exampke, windows-32 bit will never be able to address more than 3gb, so that's the most you will see in a low-end pc that isn't intended to run win-64.
  3. #3  
    a computer is only as fast as its slowest compartment
  4. doc31's Avatar
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    #4  
    I'm sure its a pretty safe bet they'll make sure it has a good amount of ram. they learned that with the pre+ plus with stacks in 2.0 they plan on people using lots of cards.
    I don't care what you say SPRINT kicks
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  5.    #5  
    true but using a palm pre on sprint and palm pre plus on verizon for 6 months each the verizon verison before and after the 1ghz kernel applications, the Verizon verison opens applications alot smoother, with less lag, and more at a time without lag due of course to having double the ram. So that to me is a concern when working with a OS that consist of multitasking with limited ram. Regardless of storage which is not a factor when trying to run a program, and the OS is ram slaved due to none available to run a specific command, in a timely matter.
  6. #6  
    since the pre plus already has 512mb ram, I am pretty sure that will be the minimum amount for all future palm flagship devices.
  7. shotyme's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    true but using a palm pre on sprint and palm pre plus on verizon for 6 months each the verizon verison before and after the 1ghz kernel applications, the Verizon verison opens applications alot smoother, with less lag, and more at a time without lag due of course to having double the ram. So that to me is a concern when working with a OS that consist of multitasking with limited ram. Regardless of storage which is not a factor when trying to run a program, and the OS is ram slaved due to none available to run a specific command, in a timely matter.
    This is true to an extent, but processor will be just as important. This is a society of wanting it now. Quick response is what is needed. If you are multitasking, then you need an adequate processor to run those processes without slow down (or little slow down). Think of how a computer slows down during a virus scan. This is where dual, triple, and quad core help alleviate the problem. More RAM doesn't help nearly as much This is why 4G is making so much of a big deal. It's speed. I am not saying that your points are incorrect, but I think that they are equally important. I can see faster RAM helping out a bit. just like how DDR3 helps over DDR2 or SDRAM.
  8. #8  
    Mobile devices don't work like windows computers, they don't use swap files so they are going to make the ram whatever size it needs to be for the amount of data they intend an average to power user to need.

    I think the issue you are looking at isn't RAM size but rather speed. The speed of the RAM to read in and read out to the processor would be the only part of the RAM that would effect speed and that is not size (storage space) dependent.
  9. #9  
    so I heard HTC is introducing 576 MHz RAM for windows 7 phone, what are the chances, the new webOS phone would have 1gig of RAM. I think if palm doesnt put a gig of RAM in it, moto or HTC will come out in few months and say there phones are way ahead of the curve. So I think it is very very essential palm places a dual core CPU with 1 gig RAM.
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  10. #10  
    That extra memory costs money. They may not be prepared to increase the price of the phone by $25 to fit it in. (Remember that this form factor makes it even more difficult to fit in additional memory than in notebooks, which are more expensive than desktops in terms of RAM.)
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    That extra memory costs money. They may not be prepared to increase the price of the phone by $25 to fit it in. (Remember that this form factor makes it even more difficult to fit in additional memory than in notebooks, which are more expensive than desktops in terms of RAM.)
    true but even money slaved palm increased the palm pre plus ram to 512 without raising the price of the device when selling it on Verizon and AT&T off contract and on.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Mobile devices don't work like windows computers, they don't use swap files so they are going to make the ram whatever size it needs to be for the amount of data they intend an average to power user to need.

    I think the issue you are looking at isn't RAM size but rather speed. The speed of the RAM to read in and read out to the processor would be the only part of the RAM that would effect speed and that is not size (storage space) dependent.
    oh ok I see, so do you personally think the next webos device will need more then 512mb of ram?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    That extra memory costs money. They may not be prepared to increase the price of the phone by $25 to fit it in. (Remember that this form factor makes it even more difficult to fit in additional memory than in notebooks, which are more expensive than desktops in terms of RAM.)
    H/P has spent around 10 billion dollars in last few months acquiring companies, they can spend another 2 million for acquiring mindsets by placing extra RAM and a dual core CPU.
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  14. #14  
    You clearly don't work with accountants, a career choice with which HP is laced. HP is going to be expecting profit from the phones, since the App Catalog is still relatively small and immature. They're already looking at a lower profit margin (based on the Pre's selling price) for a lot of the new tech that is perceived as required, plus recouping the cost of purchasing Palm.

    I keep reading this things here about how HP can afford millions or billions to do different things that benefit WebOS, but that doesn't mean that they will. They still have mainframes, servers, desktops, printers, and consulting services to sell, and they form a much bigger piece of the company than does Palm. The Palm division will be expected to stand on its own very quickly, and that means squeezing out whatever profit they can.

    Don't let your wishes cloud the reality of corporate product management.
  15. mike5's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    You clearly don't work with accountants, a career choice with which HP is laced. HP is going to be expecting profit from the phones, since the App Catalog is still relatively small and immature.
    I hope they are expecting a profit from their phones, too. If HP doesn't make profits, HP ceases to exist. I think what you are forgetting or neglecting is the planned ecosystem for webOS.

    The article on McKinney talks about this ecosystem: http://www.precentral.net/mckinney-a...duct-ecosystem

    AND Rahul Sood has talked about it as well. Specifically, he said all the defectors would want to return to develop for Palm/HP. Also, HP has already tasked their own engineers to come up w/webOS apps.

    They may be overly optimistic, but it is nice to see a large corporation as excited about webOS as we are here at PreCentral. Though there may not be that many apps now, they see a HUGE potential for apps in the future as part of this ecosystem. So do I.
  16. #16  
    The new phones have to be loss leaders... HP MUST expect to lose money on the first round of devices that they put out in order to gain a marketshare with WebOS.

    It would be stupid and ignorant to expect to make any money off of the next round of devices that are coming out.

    Palm and WebOS dont have the marketshare to be profitable or even sustainable yet.

    HP really needs to wow people with awesome hardware that costs a LOT, and give it to them for very very cheap.

    This is the only way you will entice people to move away from another ecosystem like Android to WebOS right now.

    If HP doesnt do this and either puts out mediocre hardware or hardware that costs an arm and a leg, they can cash all their Palm chips in right now and just forget about it.
  17. #17  
    I might have argued w/ the op before I created my FrankenPre, Now there is no doubt in my mind that ram is more important than processor (to a degree)
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  18. #18  
    Also remember extra RAM takes more energy to run, so battery life is also a factor. Also, 256MB of ram is barely enough to hold the OS in memory, which is why the TMC error happens so much, but when that number gets bumped to 512MB, available application RAM goes up a lot. You aren't just doubling the RAM, you are increasing the available memory from 20-30MB to over 256MB.

    1GB of RAM could be overkill, but Ruby did say that they were taking hardware very seriously. Plus the PDK apps are becoming more popular and use more memory than the standard SDK apps.

    I would like to see 512MB minimum, but if they can keep battery life good with 1GB I won't complain.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    The new phones have to be loss leaders... HP MUST expect to lose money on the first round of devices that they put out in order to gain a marketshare with WebOS.

    It would be stupid and ignorant to expect to make any money off of the next round of devices that are coming out.
    I don't know that any manufacturer expects or tolerates phone hardware to be loss leaders. This isn't the video game market where the same hardware will be in widespread use five years later and people will spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on software for them. Even most iPhone users don't have a lot of money invested in apps for their phones.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    I don't know that any manufacturer expects or tolerates phone hardware to be loss leaders. This isn't the video game market where the same hardware will be in widespread use five years later and people will spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on software for them. Even most iPhone users don't have a lot of money invested in apps for their phones.
    Loss leader is the wrong term here. But, companies have certainly been known to buy market share by introducing products at either very low margins or even at a loss. The idea would be to get webOS devices out there in enough quantity to help kickstart development, and then subsequent devices would be price accordingly (and profitably).

    HP might very well take this tack. And if they do, I imagine the incentives will go to the carriers as opposed to the end users--i.e., they'll cut their prices, but the carriers will pocket most or all of the difference. We'll see something closer to regular prices on our end.

    Remember that HP is in this for the long haul, and I'm sure they've already baked this kind of thing into their accounting for the Palm acquisition. And they've stated that it'll be some time before Palm/webOS products contribute meaningfully to either the top or bottom lines.

    Note that I'm speaking here about smartphones. I think the tablet and other devices (e.g., multifunction devices/printers) won't have this constraint, because the competition's not nearly so established.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
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