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  1. mpfef's Avatar
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    #41  
    To me, it all hinges on 2.0 - if 2.0 can revitalize my Pre+, bringing new capabilities and almost as important, new APIs for App Developers to use, I'll be fine waiting.
  2. #42  
    Well, here's one way to look at today's revelations from our buddy Rahul. It seems to me to put to rest any doubt that webOS 2.0 will run on existing hardware. For me, that's kind of encouraging. I just hope it performs well. I'm pleased with the performance I'm getting with Uber1G, and I hope it can handle 2.0 as well.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    What, the same Rahul Sood who cries at length on his twitter about "Leaks R bad guyz!" I doubt it.

    The more interesting take is that if we don't get any new hardware soon, webOS 2.0 is going to launch on the devices we already have without any new hardware in place. This seriously takes down my excitement for webOS 2.0 - with no new hardware, there's only so much we can expect in terms of performance enhancement, new apps, and features.
    Errg....not quite. See this post http://forums.precentral.net/future-...ml#post2637152.

    Tech companies and departments are forced to "do more with less" all the time. You will be amazed what code rewrites and optimizations can do with "outdated" server hardware that people are rallying to be dumped. After delivery and their amazement with the improvements, they ask "how much did the new infrastructure cost?" to which we smile widely and say "$0".

    This is not always possible but from 1.4.5 architecture to 2.0 it's definitely possible. WebOS 2.0 to 2.2 and now we're getting into the "no more optimizations left" category but for sure new hardware will be out by then and it won't matter.

    (We didn't switch to Itanium processors until well into their life cycle because we were able to effectively milk the Xeon's to the end. )
  4. licotto's Avatar
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    #44  
    Um, they have time! Smartphones are STILL not the market majority! A LOT of people still need to switch from normal phones...

    settle down everyone! If he says it will be awesome, i believe him
  5. #45  
    I'm beginning to think he's just picking up where Roger McNamee left off.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    Tech companies and departments are forced to "do more with less" all the time.
    Not exactly an apple to apple comparison. We are talking about a consumer based product/market, in which hardware is obsoleted at a rapid pace. The Pre was announced publicly at CES2009, Jan of 2009. It's nearly a 2 year old hardware platform... Pre+ was a minor hw tweak, not much to speak of beyond the external button and more memory(iirc) correctly. Pre hardware is outdated and sorely in need of a refresh.

    When you have Iphone refreshed annually, Droid, Droid X, Droid 2, Evo, Epic and all the other flavors of HW released since Jan 2009, Palm/HP can't (from a market perspective) afford to release new hardware once every 2+ years, unless its STELLAR from the get go, and the pre hardware wasn't stellar, ever.

    If you're happy with your Pre and willing to wait for WebOS2, great...in the mean time, those not willing to wait for 2.0 on tired hardware will end up moving on.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by licotto View Post
    Um, they have time! Smartphones are STILL not the market majority! A LOT of people still need to switch from normal phones...

    settle down everyone! If he says it will be awesome, i believe him
    EXACTLY!!

    Mobile phone sales in 2009 were 1.2 billion an the smartphone portion was only 53.8 million not even 10% of the overall sales. There is still PLENTY of space for HPalm and WebOS to dominate.

    All the jebusphone lovers (aka SJN's*) love the phone and stay with it. More sheeple buy it because it's the most popular and (for a while) was in a niche buy itself. Now that Android (and Palm soon) are catching up, the jebusphone won't be the only game in town and those other 1.17 billion people will realize there's another phone that kicks just as much azz as the jebusphone. Apple has damaged themselves with Antenna gate and the proof is in the large number of my users that are still on 3GS. Very few went iP4 and that's bad for crApple.



    [*SJN - Steve Jobs Nuthugger]
  8. #48  
    Personally, I feel like at this point, what I want are new apps and features that are likely only going to come with new hardware - both because the current hardware can't do it and because devs aren't really going to be releasing major apps for something so old, Palm really needs to push more units of a new device in order to send the message that it's not particularly dying. What code rewrite is going to give us a front-facing camera? Or evne a better rear camera - featuring autofocus in particular? A bigger screen with more pixels? And yes, the lack of screen real estate is becoming an issue with app development. Without new hardware to generate buzz, do you really think anyone other than hobbyists devs are going to get in on webOS? Almost any app you want is an agonizing struggle to get them to release a webOS version, IF they don't brush you off immediately. I don't think new API's are going to fix that problem.

    And let's not forget that while a lot of us are running the 800mhz, 1Ghz, or even 1.2 Ghz overclock, the phone ships out at 500mhz and merely goes to 600Mhz for games. So our processor performance is still limited by the fact that Palm's current device has a processor speed half of what current phones have.
    screwdestiny
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  9. #49  
    You know, they don't have to give details/specs, just define not too soon... we talking weeks, months, quarters, years? If it's years or quarters, I could be swayed to the dark side. Months or weeks and I'm fine waiting.

    Just had a brain fart, the way some of us Pre users can be impatiently hitting the check for update button, not too soon could mean 24 or 48 hours to them.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    You know, they don't have to give details/specs, just define not too soon... we talking weeks, months, quarters, years? If it's years or quarters, I could be swayed to the dark side. Months or weeks and I'm fine waiting.
    I think it means there IS no timeline yet.

    They are working on, aren't in production, don't have a schedule for production and won't have anything to announce til much later.
  11. #51  
    He said in his tweet that defectors will want to comeback. So he's already anticipating many to jump ship before the new hardware comes out. The smartphone customer base is as fickle as they come and will go sniffing up any tree that has fresh Bartlett Pears on it. Being almost disposable products with 1 -2 year lifespans, what are they really losing by waiting?

    Its not terrible news. Hopefully it means that they have heavily scrutinized or possibily scrapped whatever Palm was working on (C40) and are working on something that leapfrog's the competition. Mobile technology is flying right now and the last thing they need to do is release something that's DOA, just for the sake of releasing "something".
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/13/2010 at 03:44 PM.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordbane View Post
    He said in his tweet that defectors will want to comeback. So he's already anticipating many to jump ship before the new hardware comes out. The smartphone customer base is as fickle as they come and will go sniffing up any tree that has fresh **** on it. Being almost disposable products with 1 -2 year lifespans, what are they really losing by waiting?

    Its not terrible news. Hopefully it means that they have heavily scrutinized or possibily scrapped whatever Palm was working on (C40) and are working on something that leapfrog's the competition. Mobile technology is flying right now and the last thing they need to do is release something that's DOA, just for the sake of releasing "something".
    Yeah, it's going to have to be a pretty dang cool phone for defectors to come back. And the defectors are growing as we speak. People are getting used to Android and they are liking it. Plus they will have plenty of upgrades by the time any new Palm device comes out.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    EXACTLY!!

    Mobile phone sales in 2009 were 1.2 billion an the smartphone portion was only 53.8 million not even 10% of the overall sales. There is still PLENTY of space for HPalm and WebOS to dominate.

    All the jebusphone lovers (aka SJN's*) love the phone and stay with it. More sheeple buy it because it's the most popular and (for a while) was in a niche buy itself. Now that Android (and Palm soon) are catching up, the jebusphone won't be the only game in town and those other 1.17 billion people will realize there's another phone that kicks just as much azz as the jebusphone. Apple has damaged themselves with Antenna gate and the proof is in the large number of my users that are still on 3GS. Very few went iP4 and that's bad for crApple. [*SJN - Steve Jobs Nuthugger]

    The problem with this argument is two-fold. First, it assumes that of those 1.2 billion cell phones that were sold, a large portion will be switching over to smartphones. While this may prove to be true, I know a ton of feature phone users who I've tried to bring over to the Pre that just want nothing to do with any sort of smartphone. They are happy with their calling and/or texting plans and don't want the added cost of a data plan. Second, it assumes that those users who don't currently have smartphones but plan on upgrading to one, are legitimate free agents. The problem with that aspect is that, really if they don't have smartphones at this point, they will be pretty ignorant about an OS or a specific manufacturer. They will recognize Windows from their PC's. They will recognize BlackBerries, because at this point, they're a household name. They will recognize the iphone (self-explanatory), and they will recognize Android simply based on the Droid commercials. I can't count the number of times I've heard people refer to a Droid phone when talking about ANY phone that runs android.
    Yes, the window is open a crack, and I'm not saying that HPalm can't yet become a major player, but it's all about mindshare, and Palm/webOS doesn't have it. Put yourself in the shoes of a first-time smartphone buyer who isn't all that tech-savvy (which, I would argue, makes up the vast majority of possible feature-phone converts). The 4 OS's up top will be highly recognizable and therefore the most likely options. Yes, webOS may be superior, but that's not what will attract the average consumer, no matter how much you think, or wish, it would.
    To be honest, I really think that, in order for them to succeed in the smartphone space, a highly successful tablet launch might be their best bet, which is pretty ironic. Right now people equate HP to computers, not smartphones, and may be more open to an ipad competitor, especially one with the rep of HP. If they see the "PalmPad" as revolutionary or as a superior alternative to the ipad, that in turn might turn them on to a smartphone. I think it makes more sense from the average consumer's perspective. Which is why I really hope it is 10"+ and not a small 5" or 7" tab. Whether or not you and I would appreciate the form factor, I think the smaller sizes are more of a niche market. 10" IMO is the sweetspot, just as 4" looks to be the mark for smartphones. Create a successful tablet, and the smartphones will follow.
    Or not...
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by omahawildcat View Post
    Yeah, it's going to have to be a pretty dang cool phone for defectors to come back. And the defectors are growing as we speak. People are getting used to Android and they are liking it. Plus they will have plenty of upgrades by the time any new Palm device comes out.
    LOL, maybe it will dual boot webOS 2.0 and Android or have an emulator to run Android apps within webOS. You know, the more I think of it, I doubt it would be too hard to get an emulator would it?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordbane View Post
    He said in his tweet that defectors will want to comeback. So he's already anticipating many to jump ship before the new hardware comes out. The smartphone customer base is as fickle as they come and will go sniffing up any tree that has fresh Bartlett Pears on it. Being almost disposable products with 1 -2 year lifespans, what are they really losing by waiting?

    Its not terrible news. Hopefully it means that they have heavily scrutinized or possibily scrapped whatever Palm was working on (C40) and are working on something that leapfrog's the competition. Mobile technology is flying right now and the last thing they need to do is release something that's DOA, just for the sake of releasing "something".
    If one hops to Android/BB/Win7/iphone and likes what they see, they still could come back based on Hardware/Software the HPalm puts out. However, if that person buys a bunch of apps and tightly integrates their mobile life into that OS, don't you think it will be that much harder to bring them back? Even thought there are superior OS's out there, iphone fanatics stick with it, and I'm sure it has everything to do with the number of apps they've purchased, and how they use the phone in their daily lives. It's hard to justify leaving a platform when you've sunk a bunch of cash into apps that would be rendered useless by switching to another platform. For current or past webOS users, it isn't too hard, because, frankly, there aren't that many quality paid apps out there, so it hasn't had the same opportunity to get its claws into its users.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  16. bdog421's Avatar
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    #56  
    If palm can't beat winpho7 to market, I fear all will be lost. Every handset maker has the latest and greatest, but palm. If they wait to much longer, there will only be more os's and more hardware to choose from. That makes palm a tougher sell every day that passes and means a greater exodus of end users, that may never come back!

    WebOS needs new hardware to stay relevant and soon!!!!! Like three months ago soon.
  17. #57  
    @FluffedMojo hard to tell ones tone on a 140 character tweet i'm afraid.. i'll blog an expanded response soon. thanks.

    rahul is backtracking quickly on that comment, he's writing a blog post apparently to extrapolate on hardware. stay tuned!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordbane View Post
    He said in his tweet that defectors will want to comeback. So he's already anticipating many to jump ship before the new hardware comes out. The smartphone customer base is as fickle as they come and will go sniffing up any tree that has fresh Bartlett Pears on it. Being almost disposable products with 1 -2 year lifespans, what are they really losing by waiting?

    Its not terrible news. Hopefully it means that they have heavily scrutinized or possibily scrapped whatever Palm was working on (C40) and are working on something that leapfrog's the competition. Mobile technology is flying right now and the last thing they need to do is release something that's DOA, just for the sake of releasing "something".
    WRONG!!! For mobile professionals (I'm a Physician) who invest substantial $$ in reference (NOT GAMING) apps, and productivity tools, not to mention accessories like higher capacity batteries, chargers, etc, once we commit to a product line, we're not going to "stop on a dime and jump back." I've invested 12+ years with Palm devices, and patiently waited for WebOS to at least "get me back" to where I was with the old PalmOS. Now I'm ready to move on and join the ranks of my Medical colleagues who have a plethora of apps and accessories for their iPhones and Android devices. Looks like the HP Palm buyout won't pan out for me anyways.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepysurf View Post
    WRONG!!! For mobile professionals (I'm a Physician) who invest substantial $$ in reference (NOT GAMING) apps, and productivity tools, not to mention accessories like higher capacity batteries, chargers, etc, once we commit to a product line, we're not going to "stop on a dime and jump back." I've invested 12+ years with Palm devices, and patiently waited for WebOS to at least "get me back" to where I was with the old PalmOS. Now I'm ready to move on and join the ranks of my Medical colleagues who have a plethora of apps and accessories for their iPhones and Android devices. Looks like the HP Palm buyout won't pan out for me anyways.
    Thank you for backing up exactly what I said above. So true.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  20. #60  
    This might be promising...someone tweeted to Sood that he should read the comments to the article on precentral, about what he said about a new device, and he tweeted back, saying this:
    Rahul Sood (rahulsood) on Twitter
    Twitter: adamcarter
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