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  1. #121  
    Is it " Next Week" yet????
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    First, the market isn't crowded. How can you be "crowded" when smartphones are still only 6-7% of all cell phones sold (if that)? This market will only grow, so there is plenty of room for 5 or 6 players, with 2 to 3 having roughly 60-70% marketshare.
    The market will grow, but the percentages will likely stay the same if something doesn't radically change on Palm's part, and regardless of how big the market is, you don't want to be the player with a 1-3 percent marketshare going forth. It makes it tough to be a priority to developers, tough to be a priority to carriers who hold the key to you releasing updates (see 1.4.5), and tough to get mindshare.

    What's going to set them apart is when they combine their already stellar consumer features with enterprise features that are on par with RIM. If you've been paying attention to what HP is doing, you can see that they plan to provide cloud based services for both consumers and enterprise, all through the WebOS platform. From storage, to media streaming, and others. HP will offer the entire ecosystem and then they will market and distribute to maximum effect. They have an excellent shot at peeling a lot of RIM's marketshare away if they do it right.
    They could peel marketshare away from anyone if they do any number of things right. But "cloud based services" are hardly a differentiator. Android provides extensive cloud-based docs, email, contact management, and is now pushing Google TV and Google Music for consumer release by the end of the year. Apple is doing the same with Apple TV, iTunes, and their ecosystem. Microsoft will also do the same with Sky Drive and Zune.

    The difference is that HP and Palm's competitors have announced or already use very specific functions to this effect. HP and Palm...are still playing whatever hand it is they hold "close to the vest".

    Marketing top notch devices using WebOS 2.0 will be key. There are still things on my Pre Plus that are superior to Android. Things that make the phone very simple to use and accomplish tasks faster than other phones. People just need to know about these things. You also forget that their is a large group of people who have been with Palm for many years and would like to come back to Palm. Great hardware and the right new features will get many of them. If Palm can double it's user base to around 5-6 million people, all on WebOS, they will quickly accelerate and 10-15 million users in a year would not be out of the question if HP/Palm does a release on a more worldwide basis.
    There are things WebOS does superior to any platform, but the reverse is true as well. Thus far, the market has been largely apathetic to cards, multitasking, visual aesthetic quality and Palm's brand of unobtrusive notifications. I agree that much better hardware should help change that, as would better marketing.

    I think the key is going to be "new features" along with a real ecosystem, tho.
  3. maxmin's Avatar
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    #123  
    My thoughts on the release....

    Web OS 2.0 is further along than you think. The developers version of 2.0 released was not a Beta version. It was a pre-release (pun intended) of the OS. The purpose is to get developers to develop for the new OS so there are new apps available at release. If a pre-release developer does find an issue with the OS, Palm can make the fix before release.

    Software and hardware could still go to carriers late this month with RC (Release Candidate) software. For a delivery of hardware in the next month or two, Palm is probably just starting to ramp up production of the hardware. So there would be harware for carriers to test. (Remember Palm showed Pre harware in Jan, 09 and delivered June,09)

    My best guess: Late Oct if carriers cooperate or Early Nov if carriers drag their feet.

    Just MHO.
  4. #124  
    Assuming all of that happens, the X factor is still carrier testing and carriers putting on their apps. Aren't Verizon and ATT still waiting to release the last update?
  5. #125  
    Assuming that WebOS 2.0 will be going out to existing Pre's and Pixi's then I would be extremely surprised if it's not already at the carriers so that they can do their own testing of it. After all the beta is essentially a public prerelease (albeit on emulator only I assume) so it would make sense for the carriers to already be doing their own internal testing, even if they are still are the stage of working out potential bugs and integration into their systems.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    First, the market isn't crowded. How can you be "crowded" when smartphones are still only 6-7% of all cell phones sold (if that)?
    Smartphones made up 19% of all cell phone sales worldwide in Q2 2010. Most people around the world can't afford a smartphone and don't have a reason to have one anyway. By the end of 2009, 17% of US users had smartphones, an increase from 11% in 2008. Smartphone sales in the US (and I would imagine Europe) are climbing rapidly. It will level out in only a few more years.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    Smartphones made up 19% of all cell phone sales worldwide in Q2 2010. Most people around the world can't afford a smartphone and don't have a reason to have one anyway. By the end of 2009, 17% of US users had smartphones, an increase from 11% in 2008. Smartphone sales in the US (and I would imagine Europe) are climbing rapidly. It will level out in only a few more years.
    I think those Gartner numbers over-inflate smartphones by counting high-end feature phones. Nevertheless, there is a ton of room left, and people get new phones and switch up quite frequently. Buying new apps also appears to be no barrier to switching as we have seen long time RIM users switch, as well as day one iPhone users and old PalmOS users.

    The whole point of my argument was that the market has room for several players (IDC just put out a report stating they believe that the market can easily handle 5 major players). As such, Palm can still be one of them and carve out their little junk. Might only be 8-10% of all smartphones, but that would be enough to keep the community going strong and new apps coming.
  8. #128  
    Mikah912, I don't think you understand what I am talking about. Google docs, and really any of their core cloud functions, are not going to cut it for most medium and large businesses (and many small ones as well). What HP/Palm will deliver is Enterprise class cloud services. You know, the encrypted kind. The stuff that companies will allow to go over a network that is not theirs. Or, alternately, provide the means for companies to put up their own internet connected, but encrypted, cloud services.

    This is the part I think you are failing to see; i.e. the big picture. As I said, HP/Palm will be going after RIM's core market. If they start having success, and other companies see it as an alternative, especially if it's significantly cheaper (or even free with hardware purchases), then HP/Palm could quickly ramp up their market share to the point that they are very significant. One of the greatest things they have going for them is the ease at which the platform can be coded for, and the ease with which iPhone apps, especially for companies that made their own but now want a better business solution, can be ported. Again, it's all about the big picture. Just look at everyone they picked up, and look at the challenge McKinney put forward to get his Engineers and software folks to see how they can do things with this system.

    I can smell this strategic play a mile away. HP/Palm will also make sure that their consumer side is well greased so they can continue to try and pick people up through that avenue, and hopefully drive some adoption into companies via that route. Open your eyes and back away from the doom and gloom. They CLEARLY have a plan, and it seems to be bigger than many of us thought when they first picked Palm up. I'm personally very excited about the future of Palm, because I see what HP wants to do.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Mikah912, I don't think you understand what I am talking about. Google docs, and really any of their core cloud functions, are not going to cut it for most medium and large businesses (and many small ones as well). What HP/Palm will deliver is Enterprise class cloud services. You know, the encrypted kind. The stuff that companies will allow to go over a network that is not theirs. Or, alternately, provide the means for companies to put up their own internet connected, but encrypted, cloud services.
    You mean like Google Enterprise?
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You mean like Google Enterprise?
    Um...yeah, like Fortune 500 companies are going to trust their info to Google. Google is well know for putting just about everything in their databases. Most IT Sec guys are paranoid beyond belief, and Google is unlikely to be a considered solution for anyone who really worries about this (again, most Fortune 500 companies will fall into this).

    HP is a trusted brand in business. Most businesses have done, or are doing, business with them. From servers, to printers, to workstations, to laptops, to iPaq's. HP is a name that most businesses will trust. Google is not.
  11. brendu's Avatar
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    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzo View Post
    So, all that being said, I predict we will hear next week (this coming tuesday to friday) from HP about the next generation of devices running webos, and that WILL include a smartphone.

    Bank on it, kids.
    Vincenzo... you got about 24 more hours before your reputability from this point onward is zilch. I hope you were right. Either way, im hoping palm has something so huge it takes ALL the wind out of windows phone 7's sails... they cant come out against wp7 unless they have something great to wow non webos users with...
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzone View Post
    Is it " Next Week" yet????
    hey thats my line !!!!


    IS IT NEXT WEEK YET ???
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  13. #133  
    Uh...HP is going to continue to partner with Microsoft and Windows for most enterprise, which is why they are still refusing to cancel the HP Slate. Microsoft is where their bread is buttered.

    And it is Windows-based cloud services that are going to be the priority for large-scale business. Trust me...I work for a Fortune 500 company and a huge, huge retailer. Almost everybody uses ancient Lenovo laptops, IE 6, and Windows XP Professional. Oh...and ancient ATT Blackberries. Very few people around here and even fewer of our rivals are looking for a new cloud-based OS, and even if we were...good luck with all of our security certificates and authorization.

    There's a reason we use machines, a browser, and an OS that were made a decade ago.
  14. mike5's Avatar
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    #134  
    In terms of new devices, here is what Rahul tweeted today:

    "Haha! Many of you don't realize the development time it takes to create new devices.. Wish it was like snapping fingers though "
    about 2 hours ago via Bad Kitty

    Kind of a bummer & hope it means nothing, but...he doesn't say what devices he is talking about, but...
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by bnceo View Post
    Close the thread after "next week" because the rumor (or actually just a statement from thin air without any past history) has been proven false and thus really no longer applies. Basically, close the thread to stop conversation on an irrelevant thread.
    Wow.

    This started out as a fun anticipation thread about when Palm HP would announce a new phone.

    I was looking forward to a thread that was fun and open and a place for people excited about Palm's next mega phone.

    How about this, instead of closing the thread, how about you stop checking it, if it bothers you that much.

    Man, why the drama?

    I think Vincenzo was brave for putting it out there, and taking a dive in the new hardware announcement prediction racket.

    I've put in my date.

    Any others, or are you too Pre-occupied.

    (Yes, that just happened )
    Last edited by Vociferous; 09/09/2010 at 09:49 PM.
  16. #136  
    bnceo has no such authority....the thread is not closing.

    Please follow Mike5 or maxmin's example and carry on.

    <<Thread Renamed>>
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  17. #137  
    I take the 'haha' to mean - 'thanks for giving us a hard time, we are about to announce something'.

    Not good policy to be smug/sarcastic when you are deep in the middle of the development cycle with no firm release date ... so

    I THINK HE KNOWS FULL WELL THEY ARE ON THE FINAL LEG OF A RELEASE AND THE DATE HAS BEEN SET.
  18. shotyme's Avatar
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    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The market will grow, but the percentages will likely stay the same if something doesn't radically change on Palm's part, and regardless of how big the market is, you don't want to be the player with a 1-3 percent marketshare going forth. It makes it tough to be a priority to developers, tough to be a priority to carriers who hold the key to you releasing updates (see 1.4.5), and tough to get mindshare.



    They could peel marketshare away from anyone if they do any number of things right. But "cloud based services" are hardly a differentiator. Android provides extensive cloud-based docs, email, contact management, and is now pushing Google TV and Google Music for consumer release by the end of the year. Apple is doing the same with Apple TV, iTunes, and their ecosystem. Microsoft will also do the same with Sky Drive and Zune.

    The difference is that HP and Palm's competitors have announced or already use very specific functions to this effect. HP and Palm...are still playing whatever hand it is they hold "close to the vest".



    There are things WebOS does superior to any platform, but the reverse is true as well. Thus far, the market has been largely apathetic to cards, multitasking, visual aesthetic quality and Palm's brand of unobtrusive notifications. I agree that much better hardware should help change that, as would better marketing.

    I think the key is going to be "new features" along with a real ecosystem, tho.
    This is a near flawless post. Just adding my 2 cents in addition to a thanks


    This is really a true statement. Apple launched their iPod and iTunes services before they launched the iPhone. They created an ecosystem to keep people locked in and connected. Google had it's cloud based services like gmail, gdocs, it's search engine. HP realize that they need an ecosystem and that they are behind. I respect that they are trying to create that, but at the same time, they need to announce something, start a buzz, and have a more aggressive schedule. They are moving in the right direction, but they only have a small window of opportunity. I would assume that HP wants to take over business and consumers as well. The next year should be interesting, since we have tech giants throwing money everywhere, but money can't solve all issues
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Uh...HP is going to continue to partner with Microsoft and Windows for most enterprise, which is why they are still refusing to cancel the HP Slate. Microsoft is where their bread is buttered.

    And it is Windows-based cloud services that are going to be the priority for large-scale business. Trust me...I work for a Fortune 500 company and a huge, huge retailer. Almost everybody uses ancient Lenovo laptops, IE 6, and Windows XP Professional. Oh...and ancient ATT Blackberries. Very few people around here and even fewer of our rivals are looking for a new cloud-based OS, and even if we were...good luck with all of our security certificates and authorization.

    There's a reason we use machines, a browser, and an OS that were made a decade ago.

    I work for a Fortune 10 company. One with over 300,000 employees. So, yes, I understand how it goes. We are BlackBerry, but the iPhone has had some limited penetration. We are moving to Windows 7 this year.

    You still fail to understand what I am referring to. This discussion isn't about Microsoft. It's about RIM and it's current place in both of our companies. HP/Palm plan to push to replace RIM, not Microsoft, in the big companies. They may also provide additional services that could replace Microsoft Exchange, but that's what Google is for. I'm talking about replacing BES and providing servers that can be used with encrypted cloud storage to allow sensitive documents to be accessed by employees anywhere they need them.

    That's the bigger picture. Replace RIM and also offer additional remote accessing capabilities for employees that need corporate info on the go.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    I work for a Fortune 10 company. One with over 300,000 employees. So, yes, I understand how it goes. We are BlackBerry, but the iPhone has had some limited penetration. We are moving to Windows 7 this year.

    You still fail to understand what I am referring to. This discussion isn't about Microsoft. It's about RIM and it's current place in both of our companies. HP/Palm plan to push to replace RIM, not Microsoft, in the big companies. They may also provide additional services that could replace Microsoft Exchange, but that's what Google is for. I'm talking about replacing BES and providing servers that can be used with encrypted cloud storage to allow sensitive documents to be accessed by employees anywhere they need them.

    That's the bigger picture. Replace RIM and also offer additional remote accessing capabilities for employees that need corporate info on the go.
    Nah. I mean, they're pushing to scale WebOS to tablets and printers. They're buying music streaming and videoconferencing services. What does any of that have to do with what RIM provides to businesses now?

    Will enterprise replace these aging Blackberries with some other sort of personal communicator/internet device? At some point, of course they will. Of course HP would love to fill that role, as would Windows Phone 7, Android, and iPhone. RIM as well. But I don't think WebOS + 3PAR = Tada! We have your new business communication devices!

    When HP acquired Palm, it was all about getting into the mobile internet space on a range of devices. Scale, scale, scale. Not really what Blackberries are for. Jon Rubinstein just started talking about Enterprise-class security, what, yesterday? In response to a question from a newly-arrived HP employee during a presentation? Saying that it was coming "in the future"?

    That's an ancillary goal at best, from the sound of it.

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