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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Except that "history of failure" is not because of the roadmap. Other factors, most of which have now been virtually eliminated, fell into the equation.
    Lack of resources have been eliminated, but I don't believe lack of resources was the reason they put out the Pixi, or didn't coordinate their advertising with the carriers like Motorola and Verizon did with Droid, or made bad design decisions like putting the charging port covered bya flimsy flip door on the side of a plastic device where it could cause stress cracks that spread to the flush screen, etc.

    But these are opinion-based debates that have been had a million times between you, me, and lots of other people. It'll never be settled.


    Uh, three carriers? Are you sure? Being just a tad provential there, wouldn't you say...

    Frankly, I think this is just so much more of "looking for reasons that Palm will fail".
    So be it. I can't convince you otherwise. I think it's just healthy discussion from perspectives both pragmatic and sanguine.
  2. #102  
    What doom and gloom. Good grief. First, TI may have the capacity to ramp up millions of CPU's. I don't think that's a problem. Second, Palm initially had great sell through with Sprint, but ran out of units (not enough money to finance a larger launch volume). That problem is gone. Third, marketing sucked. It failed to let the average user know that these Palm phones existed, failed to show how great WebOS is, and failed to show a quick on-screen demonstration of WebOS's gestures in the process. People saw the phones and had no clue what they were, nor the power that lay behind them. Then some picked them up and didn't want to take the two or three minutes to pick up the gestures or be shown by a competent sales guy how to use it.

    Quite frankly, I think these problems will be gone. The final issue was the build quality. I think it's safe to say that they plan to make sure that's not an issue this time around. If they cover all of these bases, and do so in the next 2 and a half months, they'll be just fine no matter what pessimists say. The smartphone market is still tiny next to the overall market. More than enough room for WebOS to be come a highly used and prosperous platform.
  3. #103  
    Wow this thread is better than day time soaps.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    The final issue was the build quality. I think it's safe to say that they plan to make sure that's not an issue this time around. If they cover all of these bases, and do so in the next 2 and a half months, they'll be just fine no matter what pessimists say. The smartphone market is still tiny next to the overall market. More than enough room for WebOS to be come a highly used and prosperous platform.
    They need something more than just a smartphone with an OS. What sets HP apart from the iOS/iTunes/Apps/Music/Videos/Books or the Android/Google/Apps/Video/Multi-hardware models or the Windows Phone Zune/XboX or the RIM Email/Security/business ecosystems? These other ecosystems have a lot more to offer than a phone with a pretty OS. What's HP's play going to be in this competitive and increasingly crowded market?

    Quote Originally Posted by thecrazy88
    Wow this thread is better than day time soaps.
    Isn't that true of nearly everything else besides daytime soaps?
  5. Helidos's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    They need something more than just a smartphone with an OS. What sets HP apart from the iOS/iTunes/Apps/Music/Videos/Books or the Android/Google/Apps/Video/Multi-hardware models or the Windows Phone Zune/XboX or the RIM Email/Security/business ecosystems? These other ecosystems have a lot more to offer than a phone with a pretty OS. What's HP's play going to be in this competitive and increasingly crowded market?

    Isn't that true of nearly everything else besides daytime soaps?
    Nothing!!! and that's the entire problem with webos.. The masses could care less about cards, elegant multitasking and pretty UI's. And that's all webos has going for it atm. People want speed, near instant operation and apps apps apps which webos lacks badly..

    And that's running thin for current webos users so HP has more of an uphill battle than palm did a year ago....

    IMO
  6. bnceo's Avatar
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzo View Post
    I predicted on twitter last month that immediately after Labor Day, we would soon hear from HP about new devices coming for webos. You see, the summer is always a major downtime for all business. People are at the beach, taking their kids to camp, or whatever else, and generally pay no mind to the news.

    With that in mind, you would expect HP not to waste any major announcements of new devices when everyone isn't paying attention. They need a big hit with the next device, so they will wait until AFTER Labor Day to make announcements. The PRPRPR $machine$ $will$ $need$ $to$ $be$ $in$ $full$ $force$, $and$ $you$ $neeed$ $people$ $back$ $at$ $work$ $listening$ $to$ $the$ $news$ $to$ $make$ $this$ $happen$.

    Yes, we heard about Q1 2011, but that's just noise for competitors. HP, like every other marketer, knows Christmas is the big holiday, and for businesses, budgets are prepared in September/October for 2011. HP would not miss out on big sales by waiting until next year. Palm has already been working on their next devices, and webos 2.0 is already finished and waiting for a true release.

    So, all that being said, I predict we will hear next week (this coming tuesday to friday) from HP about the next generation of devices running webos, and that WILL include a smartphone.

    Bank on it, kids.
    So, if by the end of Friday we heard nothing, will you apply to have this thread closed and also post about how wrong you are? I mean, if you say something, you should own up to it, right?
  7. #107  
    What's HP got going for it? The answer is obvious - the cloud. Look at all the aquisitions of late, they are all about the cloud. They can sell webOS because it puts the cloud in the palm of your hand.

    and printing!
  8.    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by bnceo View Post
    So, if by the end of Friday we heard nothing, will you apply to have this thread closed and also post about how wrong you are? I mean, if you say something, you should own up to it, right?
    notice the thread says "next week" so it qualifies to always be in the future!



    j/k i dont' see why i would close the thread, but of course i'll take my lumps.
  9. bnceo's Avatar
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by vincenzo View Post
    notice the thread says "next week" so it qualifies to always be in the future!



    j/k i dont' see why i would close the thread, but of course i'll take my lumps.
    Close the thread after "next week" because the rumor (or actually just a statement from thin air without any past history) has been proven false and thus really no longer applies. Basically, close the thread to stop conversation on an irrelevant thread.
  10.    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by bnceo View Post
    Close the thread after "next week" because the rumor (or actually just a statement from thin air without any past history) has been proven false and thus really no longer applies. Basically, close the thread to stop conversation on an irrelevant thread.
    so i notice you've gone around in other threads demanding the OP request to close the thread becuase a rumor or guess didn't come true.

    are you a bluesman or something? turn that frown upside down! this forum is the equivalant of fan fiction for H/Palm. Just a whole lot of guessing.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    They need something more than just a smartphone with an OS. What sets HP apart from the iOS/iTunes/Apps/Music/Videos/Books or the Android/Google/Apps/Video/Multi-hardware models or the Windows Phone Zune/XboX or the RIM Email/Security/business ecosystems? These other ecosystems have a lot more to offer than a phone with a pretty OS. What's HP's play going to be in this competitive and increasingly crowded market?
    First, the market isn't crowded. How can you be "crowded" when smartphones are still only 6-7% of all cell phones sold (if that)? This market will only grow, so there is plenty of room for 5 or 6 players, with 2 to 3 having roughly 60-70% marketshare. What's going to set them apart is when they combine their already stellar consumer features with enterprise features that are on par with RIM. If you've been paying attention to what HP is doing, you can see that they plan to provide cloud based services for both consumers and enterprise, all through the WebOS platform. From storage, to media streaming, and others. HP will offer the entire ecosystem and then they will market and distribute to maximum effect. They have an excellent shot at peeling a lot of RIM's marketshare away if they do it right.

    Marketing top notch devices using WebOS 2.0 will be key. There are still things on my Pre Plus that are superior to Android. Things that make the phone very simple to use and accomplish tasks faster than other phones. People just need to know about these things. You also forget that their is a large group of people who have been with Palm for many years and would like to come back to Palm. Great hardware and the right new features will get many of them. If Palm can double it's user base to around 5-6 million people, all on WebOS, they will quickly accelerate and 10-15 million users in a year would not be out of the question if HP/Palm does a release on a more worldwide basis.

    Quite frankly, I find all the doom and gloom to be both ridiculous and funny.
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    #112  
    I wish Palm would just come out with specs or at least a quarter when new hardware will be available. I love webOS but my refurbished pre is already starting to flake out a little in some areas.
    IMO Palm needs a new device and webos 2.0 by the end of this year or they will be playing catch up to android which will have dual core devices and the 3.0 OS. Since android is the one gobbling up most all the new smartphone consumers and stealing others away from RIM/webos/ios they are the ones that Palm should try not to lose any more ground to.
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    #113  
    Not only Android, I hate to say it, but they need to get some kind of info out there before Windows Phone 7 launches. A certain percentage of people looking for some kind of alternative to iOS or Android will move over to WP7 regardless of how crappy it is, and if HP/Palm can at least get an announcement out there before WP7 launches, they can preserve some of these people as customers.

    Seriously, it can't be understated what a mistake it would be to wait until CES to announce new hardware. By then, WP7, Android 3.0 and rumors of iPhone 5.0 will be out there.

    --Matt
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Lack of resources have been eliminated, but I don't believe lack of resources was the reason they put out the Pixi, or didn't coordinate their advertising with the carriers like Motorola and Verizon did with Droid, or made bad design decisions like putting the charging port covered bya flimsy flip door on the side of a plastic device where it could cause stress cracks that spread to the flush screen, etc.

    But these are opinion-based debates that have been had a million times between you, me, and lots of other people. It'll never be settled.
    The wisdom of putting the Pixi out there is a matter of opinion of course (I notice though, the Pixi is still selling); however, they did coordinate advertising with their carriers. The first ads I ever saw for the Pre were Sprint ads, so, not sure where you get that one from.

    As far as the bad design, almost every first unit has design issues, extensive use is how they show up. However, Palm didn't have the resources to punt on that one. They had to sell what they had.
  15. #115  
    is it 'next week' yet?
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by bnceo View Post
    So, if by the end of Friday we heard nothing, will you apply to have this thread closed and also post about how wrong you are? I mean, if you say something, you should own up to it, right?
    You are a joke, you posted the same thing on my thread and now here too, come on man
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Not really. I see very recent Tweets from Bad Kitty in his timeline.
    What I meant was he is using his Pre instead of a 2.0 phone, and his iPad instead of a Palmpad, because the new devices would get picked up by logs.
  18. #118  
    funniest thing will be, when People get webOS 2.0 for their Pre and Pixi phones, they probably come to the conclusion, that no new hardware is needed anymore.


    It's not about new, higher specs, it's about better efficiency in using the already available hardware.

    Don't forget, the Pre is pretty the same than the iPhone 3GS and will most probably behave as sleek as this with webOS 2.0 available.

    A lot of people, even pro-users, will probably stop crying for new hardware when they get their devices re-booted with webOS 2.0!
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by rot View Post

    A lot of people, even pro-users, will probably stop crying for new hardware when they get their devices re-booted with webOS 2.0!
    Well, until something on their 4th Pre breaks anyways and they need to get another one yet again.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The wisdom of putting the Pixi out there is a matter of opinion of course (I notice though, the Pixi is still selling); however, they did coordinate advertising with their carriers. The first ads I ever saw for the Pre were Sprint ads, so, not sure where you get that one from.
    I don't think you understand when I say coordinate. The Sprint ads showed a giant Facebook page when there was no Facebook app. The Palm ads first showed monks, then a zonked-out lady spokesperson. The Verizon ads first showed moms, then just a closeup of the phone and verbal description of its features, but then the Palm ads changed to people walking down the street swiping stuff with no further description. Oh, and then there were the Pixi ads which showed the phone being touched with no real context by a bunch of hipsters. And the Bell ads which ripped off Apple's. And....

    What did any of these have in common? There's no coordination. No unified message. By contrast, Geico has run no less than four different campaigns on TV interchangeably in the past year with the gecko, the over-earnest spokesman, the cavemen, and the stack of money with eyes all showing on various channels in the same period. But despite the different approaches, they all invariably ended by hammering home the "15 minutes/15 percent" creed. THAT is a coordinated ad campaign. Palm and their various carriers were just throwing different things at the wall to see what stuck.

    Is it any wonder why the Droid campaign was able to tout features like universal search and multitasking like they were new, exclusive inventions when Palm could never seem to get the word out on what WebOS great in the first place?

    As far as the bad design, almost every first unit has design issues, extensive use is how they show up. However, Palm didn't have the resources to punt on that one. They had to sell what they had.
    Even if the stress cracks didn't appear, you still have a flimsy door and a port inconveniently placed for docks to charge the device. On paper, you could it see it being a bad idea.
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