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  1.    #1  
    Just saw this article on Engadget.

    We have all speculated that since Palm used TI for thier Pre OMAP3 CPU supplier, that they would stick with TI for thier OMAP4 dual core A9 based Pre 2, however, we know that right now, they would be only able to use only the 45 nm chip that was planned for production in the 2nd half of this year, as TI plans to get to the 28 nm thickness production wise next year.

    Well, here is Globalfoundries, a chip manufacturer that will be taking orders for 2010 production of the single core, non-OMAP version A9 Cortex chip in the 28 nm size, with plans to eventually bring them down to 20 nm in 2013.

    The 32 nm, already in production, has a 50% performance improvement on the 45 nm chip. There is no guidance on the improvement for the 28 nm over the 32, but, it is 10% thinner.

    This brings a whole new light to cpu's for future mobile devices, as this single core chip will be a huge energy saver, with clock speeds OVER 1 ghz, and they have new implementations (Osprey) to send it over 2 ghz, but there are no further clarifications on that yet to indicate just when those implementations will be utilized.

    Dual core 45 nm vs 28 nm single core A9 CPU's.

    There are advantaes to both, with the dual core OMAP4 chip coming out well in top, but still, the single core, high performance chip would be incredibly affordable to use for manufacturers like HTC and Motorolla.

    For a little more background on Globalfoundries (spinnoff 2 years ago from AMD), and thier currrent chip offering, compared to TI's OMAP4 dual core, see this link.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2. #2  
    It's just cruel to tease like this!

    I think this bodes well for future phones. John Rubenstein was used to walking into any tech manufacturer and getting the best of the best when he was at apple. I'm pretty certain that he hasn't changed.

    If, hope against hope, he plans on using HP's dollars to push the limits of the hardware for the next Palm phone, then I will be a crazy happy camper. But HP is not known for moving at the speed of light.

    Wish they'd release the darn phone already. The suspense is killing me!
  3. #3  
    Samsung just revealed their Orion processor with Cortex A9; will be available to "select partners" this fall, according to Engadget this morning...
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Samsung just revealed their Orion processor with Cortex A9; will be available to "select partners" this fall, according to Engadget this morning...
    Yes, I saw this.

    Im of the thought that the TI OMAP platform is where they are looking to grow; there are some VERY unique features in it - inlcuding the ability to drive 4 displays simultaneously, among others, not to mention the incredible battrey savings.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #5  
    Easy! Single core for the phone, dual for the tablet

    I hate how Apple and Sammy use the same chip for both. In my opinion, it defeats the purpose of buying a tablet. I want more power, not just a bigger screen.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmid7y View Post
    Easy! Single core for the phone, dual for the tablet

    I hate how Apple and Sammy use the same chip for both. In my opinion, it defeats the purpose of buying a tablet. I want more power, not just a bigger screen.
    You know, I'd tend to believe that because of WebOS's multitasking capacities, it will require more CPU and RAM for any device it's on, so, dual core for the smartphone(s) and higher speed dual core with some added extra capabilities for the tablet device; both with tons of RAM, of course.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  7. #7  
    As tempting as the 28nm is I want to have ludachris-speed!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    You know, I'd tend to believe that because of WebOS's multitasking capacities, it will require more CPU and RAM for any device it's on, so, dual core for the smartphone(s) and higher speed dual core with some added extra capabilities for the tablet device; both with tons of RAM, of course.

    agreed.. Fast single core might work better on iphone, but I think a dual core cpu would be better on the pre, since it needs it for multitasking.
  9. mike5's Avatar
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    #9  
    Light Reading Mobile - Qualcomm Plots 1.5GHz Tablet Processor - Telecom News Analysis

    1.2 dual core 1st qtr 2011, 1.5 dual core by 4th qtr 2011 (probably for tablets)
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Light Reading Mobile - Qualcomm Plots 1.5GHz Tablet Processor - Telecom News Analysis

    1.2 dual core 1st qtr 2011, 1.5 dual core by 4th qtr 2011 (probably for tablets)
    Yawn. I'm pretty sure there will be a 1.5GHz OMAP4 in mass production by 4th quarter next year and it will perform better than Qualcomm's chip. As far as I know the new dual core dragons don't have an SGX540, which is twice as fast as the 530, uses less power and supports HDMI displays up to 1920x1200. The OMAP also offers hardware-based audio and video encoding/decoding, so stuff like recording video at 1080p/30fps hardly uses CPU, and you can play back music for hours and hours without draining your battery -- and that's already available today. If the Pre indeed is using this chip, it will have all these capabilities.

    As I've said in other threads, it's not all about the GHz.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    Yawn. I'm pretty sure there will be a 1.5GHz OMAP4 in mass production by 4th quarter next year and it will perform better than Qualcomm's chip. As far as I know the new dual core dragons don't have an SGX540, which is twice as fast as the 530, uses less power and supports HDMI displays up to 1920x1200. The OMAP also offers hardware-based audio and video encoding/decoding, so stuff like recording video at 1080p/30fps hardly uses CPU, and you can play back music for hours and hours without draining your battery -- and that's already available today. If the Pre indeed is using this chip, it will have all these capabilities.

    As I've said in other threads, it's not all about the GHz.
    Correct.

    The OMAP specs are powerful and extensive - did you kknow that they can drive as much as 3 separate displays simultaneously?

    Watch this and tell me that this isn't what you would want in your smartphone!

    Clock-speed is NOT the be-all and end all to processing power and performance - its one of many factors, and the OMAP specs on top of the A9 dual core chips bring mobile processsing into what appears to be a much higher level of performance, and true-multitasking OS's like WebOS will benefit greatly from them, and rise above the rest of the "wannabe's" as they use the OMAP potential to the fullest.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  12. eden922's Avatar
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    #12  
    http://gizmodo.com/5633719/arms-cort...-look-decrepit

    ARM is the company you can thank for your smartphone's heroic guts; their chip architecture underpins Qualcomm's Snapdragon, Samsung's Hummingbird, and iPhone 4. Soon, you can also thank them for making chips five-times more powerful than those with Cortex A15.

    Here's what we've got in store when Cortex A15 chips finally launch: up to 2.5GHz speed (top smartphones currently max out at 1Ghz). Dual or quad core configurations. And that five-fold performance boost, all without sacrificing power consumption.
    Last edited by jbg7474; 09/10/2010 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Linkified link
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by eden922 View Post
    gizmodo.com/5633719/arms-cortex+a15-architecture-will-make-your-iphone-4-look-decrepit

    ARM is the company you can thank for your smartphone's heroic guts; their chip architecture underpins Qualcomm's Snapdragon, Samsung's Hummingbird, and iPhone 4. Soon, you can also thank them for making chips five-times more powerful than those with Cortex A15.

    Here's what we've got in store when Cortex A15 chips finally launch: up to 2.5GHz speed (top smartphones currently max out at 1Ghz). Dual or quad core configurations. And that five-fold performance boost, all without sacrificing power consumption.
    Yep, saw that announcement today. Very impressive, A15 specs, but, it will take time for real implementation - till then the A9 TI OMAP4 CPU's appear to be top of the line - and likely will be, until a year or two when the first A15 TI OMAP chips debut

    (did you see that TI was one of ARM's partners in that announcement?)
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  14. mike5's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    Yawn. I'm pretty sure there will be a 1.5GHz OMAP4 in mass production by 4th quarter next year and it will perform better than Qualcomm's chip. As far as I know the new dual core dragons don't have an SGX540, which is twice as fast as the 530, uses less power and supports HDMI displays up to 1920x1200. The OMAP also offers hardware-based audio and video encoding/decoding, so stuff like recording video at 1080p/30fps hardly uses CPU, and you can play back music for hours and hours without draining your battery -- and that's already available today. If the Pre indeed is using this chip, it will have all these capabilities.

    As I've said in other threads, it's not all about the GHz.
    Cool. Sorry to bore you. I know little about processors & the tech stuff other than what I have learned through these forums. I have learned a lot from you & LCGuy. I hadn't heard these processors or quad core mentioned for possible phones so I thought it worth mentioning.

    I will go back to shutting my mouth & learning from the experts.

    Cheers
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Cool. Sorry to bore you. I know little about processors & the tech stuff other than what I have learned through these forums. I have learned a lot from you & LCGuy. I hadn't heard these processors or quad core mentioned for possible phones so I thought it worth mentioning.

    I will go back to shutting my mouth & learning from the experts.

    Cheers
    Sorry, my yawn was directed more at Qualcomm in general with their constant "omg look we have 3.5ghz dragon!!!111" marketing. Now it seems they've gotten everyone to jump aboard this GHz race wagon again -- it really bugs me when I see people post silly statements like "if the new Palm phone doesn't have more than 1GHz then I'm not buying, since I can already overclock my current one to 1GHz anyway". So I've generally developed some level of contempt for Qualcomm and their products (it also factors that I happen to work for the competition).
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    Cool. Sorry to bore you. I know little about processors & the tech stuff other than what I have learned through these forums. I have learned a lot from you & LCGuy. I hadn't heard these processors or quad core mentioned for possible phones so I thought it worth mentioning.

    I will go back to shutting my mouth & learning from the experts.

    Cheers
    Mike;

    I just want to make sure you didnt get the wrong impression - I was agreeing with computerman's opinions that CPU speed are way overblown and NOT the "be all and end all " to maxumum CPU performance... I took it that he was "yawning" at the Qualcom announcement, because, it was more about speed...and I concurred with his take on that.

    I started this thread because it may have significant relevance to the Pre2 or other WebOS devices coming, given what appears to be the stated love affair Palm has had with TI's OMAP chip implementations - and we are all, one way or another, interested in PALM's future devices, right?

    So, please, contribute, and if you see me post something wrong or inncurate (i has happened, ask mikah!), please, correct me - its all about information sharing and learning, but, whatever you do, don't think that your opinions don't count!

    All ideas and thoughts help everyone develop thier own; thats the beauty of this type of forum!!!



    PS.. thanks for the kind words in your post!
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  17. mike5's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by xcomputerman View Post
    Sorry, my yawn was directed more at Qualcomm in general with their constant "omg look we have 3.5ghz dragon!!!111" marketing. Now it seems they've gotten everyone to jump aboard this GHz race wagon again -- it really bugs me when I see people post silly statements like "if the new Palm phone doesn't have more than 1GHz then I'm not buying, since I can already overclock my current one to 1GHz anyway". So I've generally developed some level of contempt for Qualcomm and their products (it also factors that I happen to work for the competition).
    No problems. Though I did think the yawn was directed at me, I meant it when I said I have learned a lot from you & LCGuy. Keep the discussion going!

    Let me ask you all, though, how far in advance would they have to select & contract/order a processor for a new device? Even if it was still in development? I work in the airline industry & we were promised a lot by Boeing & the 787 Dreamliner--about 3 years later than scheduled, we and the world still await the airplane.

    Thanks for the encouragement LCGuy.

    Cheers
  18. shotyme's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    No problems. Though I did think the yawn was directed at me, I meant it when I said I have learned a lot from you & LCGuy. Keep the discussion going!

    Let me ask you all, though, how far in advance would they have to select & contract/order a processor for a new device? Even if it was still in development? I work in the airline industry & we were promised a lot by Boeing & the 787 Dreamliner--about 3 years later than scheduled, we and the world still await the airplane.

    Thanks for the encouragement LCGuy.

    Cheers
    I would think no sooner than 9 months. They have to create a kernel, do field testing, battery testing, optimization, Carrier testing, how it interacts with other radios on the device. I think they get a general preview from potential vendors and probably sample a few. I would suspect that Palm had their processor since the beginning of the year. Maybe February. Of course this is just me speculating.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by shotyme View Post
    I would think no sooner than 9 months. They have to create a kernel, do field testing, battery testing, optimization, Carrier testing, how it interacts with other radios on the device. I think they get a general preview from potential vendors and probably sample a few. I would suspect that Palm had their processor since the beginning of the year. Maybe February. Of course this is just me speculating.
    This sounds plausible to me - lets not forget that this was first intorduced in the fall of 2008, and ready for sampling in 2009 - so, its quite likely that JR had his sights well focused on this right after the Pre was announced in June/2009 in the C40 - who knows how long they were designing and testing the next WebOS smartphone since then ...

    I'm encouraged by all of the circumstantial information - it isnt proof, but, it does help provide us with the ability to see the possibilities of what "could" be coming, if the rumors tht prevail have any real strength to them!

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Just saw this article on Engadget.

    We have all speculated that since Palm used TI for thier Pre OMAP3 CPU supplier, that they would stick with TI for thier OMAP4 dual core A9 based Pre 2, however, we know that right now, they would be only able to use only the 45 nm chip that was planned for production in the 2nd half of this year, as TI plans to get to the 28 nm thickness production wise next year.

    Well, here is Globalfoundries, a chip manufacturer that will be taking orders for 2010 production of the single core, non-OMAP version A9 Cortex chip in the 28 nm size, with plans to eventually bring them down to 20 nm in 2013.

    The 32 nm, already in production, has a 50% performance improvement on the 45 nm chip. There is no guidance on the improvement for the 28 nm over the 32, but, it is 10% thinner.

    This brings a whole new light to cpu's for future mobile devices, as this single core chip will be a huge energy saver, with clock speeds OVER 1 ghz, and they have new implementations (Osprey) to send it over 2 ghz, but there are no further clarifications on that yet to indicate just when those implementations will be utilized.

    Dual core 45 nm vs 28 nm single core A9 CPU's.

    There are advantaes to both, with the dual core OMAP4 chip coming out well in top, but still, the single core, high performance chip would be incredibly affordable to use for manufacturers like HTC and Motorolla.

    For a little more background on Globalfoundries (spinnoff 2 years ago from AMD), and thier currrent chip offering, compared to TI's OMAP4 dual core, see this link.
    This part is confusing. A smaller die size does not make a CPU faster. What it does do is use less power, which in turn produces less heat and allows it to be clocked higher.

    Case in point, a 45 nm single core A9 clocked at 1ghz will have the same performance as a 32 nm single core A9 clocked at 1ghz, but it will run much cooler and use a lot less power saving battery life.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
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