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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    It's going to be a lot more difficult to get any attention from carriers this time because there are tons of smartphones for them to offer compared to last year. What Palm had going for it last year was their existing user base of legacy Palm devices that the carriers wanted to convert. Now that user base has been decimated to 1% of new smartphone buyers and 0% mindshare.

    I don't see any particular reason for any carrier other than Sprint to feel the need to offer the next generation Palm smartphone. Sprint probably has the largest existing user base of Palm smartphone owners. I think HP either knows this or is hearing this from the carriers and will adjust their smartphone strategy accordingly.
    true the mindshare is hurt or gone, but it will be like when they first introduced Webos, if they market it right, and build up enough momentum, carriers will sell the device just to ensure that device is available on their network. Yeah it will be a uphill climb, so thats why your right this time out the next device, and marketing has to be perfect. Hopefully with HP's buckets of cash they can do so.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Please quote one sentence that I have said is fact that is only speculation.
    Mikah;

    I already did.. you just keep skirting around it.

    See my post #27 above... you made factual statements (never implied they were your opinion, but stated them with no reserve) and could not provide concrete proof that they are in fact, fact.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Oh, so it's the carrier's responsibility to define, learn how to use, and effectively promote devices? I wonder why any phone manufacturer bothers with commercials, web site, and training executed by field reps. Sounds like they shouldn't have to.
    Mikah;

    In the current world of smartphones today, yes, of course!

    Each carrier has begun to get intimately involved in the techinical aspects of each phone, and based deals to market the phone with the phone manufacturers. THEY also provide support for the phones, as well as replacement policies. Training on each phone is also necessary for thier sales reps to have so that they can adequately sell the phone to those who would have a need for it.. thats just common sense.

    Not sure of your point here, other than just to be contrarian..
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #44  
    Quote one sentence and tell me which part is not fact. You're the one that keeps avoiding. I told you what was fact and asked for you to share what part of that was not.

    You can't do it.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Mikah;

    In the current world of smartphones today, yes, of course!

    Each carrier has begun to get intimately involved in the techinical aspects of each phone, and based deals to market the phone with the phone manufacturers. THEY also provide support for the phones, as well as replacement policies. Training on each phone is also necessary for thier sales reps to have so that they can adequately sell the phone to those who would have a need for it.. thats just common sense.

    Not sure of your point here, other than just to be contrarian..
    +1 thats what im saying. With Mobile devices becoming more and more tech swavy, Sales reps have to know exactly how to use a product, before even thinking about selling it to a customer. Def with a product like Webos, which incorporates a gesture area, and different aspect of operation that was clearly brand new to the market.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Mikah;

    In the current world of smartphones today, yes, of course!

    Each carrier has begun to get intimately involved in the techinical aspects of each phone, and based deals to market the phone with the phone manufacturers. THEY also provide support for the phones, as well as replacement policies. Training on each phone is also necessary for thier sales reps to have so that they can adequately sell the phone to those who would have a need for it.. thats just common sense.

    Not sure of your point here, other than just to be contrarian..
    Please.

    These are done in conjunction with the manufacturer, and it is their responsibility to ensure they are done correctly. You can most certainly believe that the heads rolling when this does not occur almost always come from the manufacturer's side. Hilarious...
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    It's going to be a lot more difficult to get any attention from carriers this time because there are tons of smartphones for them to offer compared to last year. What Palm had going for it last year was their existing user base of legacy Palm devices that the carriers wanted to convert. Now that user base has been decimated to 1% of new smartphone buyers and 0% mindshare.

    I don't see any particular reason for any carrier other than Sprint to feel the need to offer the next generation Palm smartphone. Sprint probably has the largest existing user base of Palm smartphone owners. I think HP either knows this or is hearing this from the carriers and will adjust their smartphone strategy accordingly.
    Wow, that's quite a bevy of pessimism there.

    So, you are implying that Palm had thier chance and blew it, and now HP is seeing any remnants of even that small user base vanishing, and will likely not even make sense to them to pursue?

    Um.. ok. Thats certainly one point of view. Now try this one:

    There are currently over 3 billion cell phone users in the world. About 200 - 250 million of them are smartphone users.. perhaps 300 milliony now, now that recent months have added significant numbers to that statistic.

    So, HP will look at this statistic, and think "90% of the potential market left to pursue isnt enough incentive for us to pursue, because we currently own only 1% of the current market".

    Yep, that makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

    NOT.

    In fact, following this logic, no other phone manufacturer other than RIM or Apple should be making phones, then, since they carry the lion's share of the phone manufacturer.. HTC and Google (nexus 1 is the only phone they made, and sold 300,000 of them, in total), shouldnt even compete any more because they cant even come close to RIM or APPLEs current market share.

    This type of cynical "rationalization" isn't "rationalization".. its just narrowminded and highly focused pessimism, and nothing more!



    IMO, of course.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Please.

    These are done in conjunction with the manufacturer, and it is their responsibility to ensure they are done correctly. You can most certainly believe that the heads rolling when this does not occur almost always come from the manufacturer's side. Hilarious...
    Huh?

    I explained my point, told you I had NO idea what point you were making and this is your reply?

    Please, address the post, and respond accordingly, without the condescending atttude, ok?

    Thanks, in advance.

    Still waiting for a real reply and explaination of your point, or, should I not hold my breath?

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  9. #49  
    He's clearly referring strictly to domestic carriers, but I guess we should factor the amazing success on carriers elsewhere WebOS achieved.

    Yeah.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Quote one sentence and tell me which part is not fact. You're the one that keeps avoiding. I told you what was fact and asked for you to share what part of that was not.

    You can't do it.
    Mikah;

    Geez.

    I did quote you, and bolded your purported "facts" and italicized the conlcusion based on them; you replied with no real evidence to support your "facts", and Im still waiting.

    FYI, I do NOT have to prove that what you stated isnt a fact, but you DO have to prove it to be; the reason is, I never refuted your statements, I just asked for proof, as I admit that I do NOT know what is and isnt "fact".. that's just logic 101.

    Just your saying it is so, doesnt mean its true.

    I, and other rational people need more than that to base any further thoughts on... sorry to have to burst your bubble!

    Here is that post again, for your convenience:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikah912
    I tend to agree with this. HTC, Motorola, and Samsung have spec'd devices on that roadmap because they have a distinct hardware release plan and rock solid carrier agreements. HP, on the other hand, has no current carrier agreements and no current product, much less a product release plan.

    I think we're a good ways off from seeing another WebOS smartphone available for sale.


    Mikah;

    Please provide proof of the above you stated (I hilghlighted in bold) as fact, rather than opinion, which you then based your opinion (in italic, above), on. I would really like to know how you know that HP has "no carrier agreements, no current product much less a product release plan".

    We are all here to learn and share information, and I would hope that you can share what basis your factual statements above are based on.

    Thanks, in advance, seriously.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 08/10/2010 at 04:12 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    He's clearly referring strictly to domestic carriers, but I guess we should factor the amazing success on carriers elsewhere WebOS achieved.

    Yeah.
    When untidyguy said "HP may have to rethink thier thought on the role of WebOS in the smartphone arena" (or soemthing to that effect), he isnt talking about domestic, hes talking about the smartphone arena, which has a huge market, worldwide, because he said "no othher carrier".

    HP specifically stated that they are looking at a worldwide market and have many connections with worldwide carriers and this is part of what they would bring to the scalability of WebOS.

    'nuff said!
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Gee, LCGuy, you make selling these smartphones sound so easy. It's really amazing, then, that Palm could barely sell 400K phones during the last quarter they reported the sell-through numbers. It really should have been so much easier than that, especially with a lot less competition.
    Untidyguy:

    I did..? Really? Just how so? I'd like to see how I made selling smartphones sound so easy....

    Not really sure about your "lot less competition" comment.. between the Verizon Droid, the EVO, Samsung Galaxy and the iPhone4 all hitting supply shortages, this comment of your is REALLY confusing.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  13. #53  
    @ LCGuy - How did you manage to become surrounded by some of the most pessimistic, contradictory, know-it-alls I've had the (dis)pleasure of reading. It is PAINFULLY obvious to me, that you merely were asking for proof of what was being stated as factual. I, personally, have decided that there are "certain" posters on this forum whom like to hear themselves- correction, SEE their own posts; whether relevant or not. I wish you good luck in your persuasion of evidence supporting the "facts", but i think it is all for not.
    Please remember that this entire post is MY OPINION! (perhaps, perhaps not) LOL
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I also can't imagine why Verizon would want to rush to get the next Palm device. In addition to not being able to sell the last batch, they were publicly chastised by Palm. That wouldn't sit well with me. Palm should get a clue from Apple. Regardless of how bad things get, Apple has never publicly bad mouthed AT&T.

    AT&T has repeatedly felt burned and betrayed by Apple --

    AT&T blames Apple (and its chip design) for its bad reception reputation. It uses a chip (infinieon??) designed for Europe, where towers are closer together than they are here.

    AT&T feels this is at least a major contributor to iPhone reception issues. iPhoners also consume much more data than other users -- which has also given AT&T have trouble. AT&T wanted Jobs to acknowledge Apple's role in AT&T difficulties, but he wouldn't.

    I have heard that AT&T execs and Jobs are barely able to be civil to each other.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/10/2010 at 04:44 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberiian View Post
    @ LCGuy - How did you manage to become surrounded by some of the most pessimistic, contradictory, know-it-alls I've had the (dis)pleasure of reading. It is PAINFULLY obvious to me, that you merely were asking for proof of what was being stated as factual. I, personally, have decided that there are "certain" posters on this forum whom like to hear themselves- correction, SEE their own posts; whether relevant or not. I wish you good luck in your persuasion of evidence supporting the "facts", but i think it is all for not.
    Please remember that this entire post is MY OPINION! (perhaps, perhaps not) LOL
    Cyberiian;

    Im just searching for the truth, and information; thats honestly my motive, here, and there is nothing behind it.

    When some post opinions as facts, it makes it very difficult to do this.

    Mikah seems to take offense to being taken to task to prove the statements he clearly represents as "facts" in his posts; if they are "facts", then he share the real proof and not speculations/opinions, and if they aren't, all he has to do is say that they are his own speculation/opinions...

    Simple enough, right?

    My opinion is, and has been stated above:

    If the next WebOS phone is a solid hardware and software device, Verizon will want it, badly, because, it is all about having the best phones to draw and keep network customers.

    Thats the bottom line, period.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Cyberiian;

    Im just searching for the truth, and information; thats honestly my motive, here, and there is nothing behind it.

    When some post opinions as facts, it makes it very difficult to do this.

    Mikah seems to take offense to being taken to task to prove the statements he clearly represents as "facts" in his posts; if they are "facts", then he share the real proof and not speculations/opinions, and if they aren't, all he has to do is say that they are his own speculation/opinions...

    Simple enough, right?

    My opinion is, and has been stated above:

    If the next WebOS phone is a solid hardware and software device, Verizon will want it, badly, because, it is all about having the best phones to draw and keep network customers.

    Thats the bottom line, period.
    I couldn't agree with you more.
  17. #57  
    LOL. It's just a phone...
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewl 700p View Post
    LOL. It's just a phone...
    It's more than just a phone for tech junkies. It's our FIX. LOL
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Gee, LCGuy, you make selling these smartphones sound so easy. It's really amazing, then, that Palm could barely sell 400K phones during the last quarter they reported the sell-through numbers. It really should have been so much easier than that, especially with a lot less competition.
    Don't bother. Everything is speculation. It's speculation and opinion that HTC has carrier agreements or announced release plans. Same for Motorola. That's just what I think. The fact that I can see them or buy their product in stores is just an opinion. We don't know that Palm doesn't have a 78ghz octo-core hologram phone that turns into a Tron cycle and makes pancakes ready for release 4 minutes from now on every carrier in the world. Anyone who claims to know that can't happen is stating an opinion. HP/Palm could take over the market by Thursday. No one knows.
  20. #60  
    Yeah, it's our "escape"...anyhow, hopefully HP/Palm will make their big splash at CES 2011!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberiian View Post
    It's more than just a phone for tech junkies. It's our FIX. LOL
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