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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    An obvious example is that Ballmer held on to Windows Mobile for far too long.
    Yes, I'm extremely disappointed in that one, mainly because Windows Mobile 6.5 existed at all.

    I did a port to it last year, and was shocked how terribly designed it was (insane address space restrictions for a 32bit CPU). I hated Brew, but it was far better that WM6.

    That was a very frustrating 2 weeks.
    [ Mike Kasprzak | Sykhronics Entertainment | Mike on Twitter | Blog ]
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  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    @BARYE

    NeXT wasn't a total failure. It became the basis of OS9 and turned the Mac into a serious computer, saving the company...
    I could write something lengthy, but I'll restrain myself --

    One question: was Gil Amelio a success at Apple ??

    Any discussion of NEXT and Jobs must be separate and apart from its acquisition by Apple -- by Gil Amelio.

    NeXT was a failing flailing enterprise when Jobs persuaded Amelio to buy him and NEXTSTEP OS for $430 million. By most any standards this was a gargantuan price for a company that had failed as a hardware maker, had laid off more than half of its 540 employees, and was on the verge of absolute dissolution were it not for continued investment by Canon.

    Amelio only bought NeXT because he was unwilling to meet BEOS's asking price, which was $200 million -- (Amelio only was willing to go as high as $160 million.)

    Presumably the reason NeXT was worth more was because of the presence of Jobs.

    Without Jobs return, Apple would have eventually disappeared. There would have been no iPods, no iPhones, no iPads.

    Without Amelio, Jobs would have been remembered as a co-founder of a pioneering home computer company -- a company crushed in the inevitable consolidation brought about by M$'s standardization and Windows. (as well as his later ownership of the successful animation studio Pixar).

    Without Amelio, NeXT was going nowhere.

    If you define NeXT as being successful because it became the basis of OS9, then you must say the same about Amelio.

    FWIW, I happen to think that both Amelio and NeXT were failures. (though for very different reasons).
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/07/2010 at 05:38 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    No, Rubi wouldn't be the right choice to run HP, but not because he's a poor executive. I think he did a remarkable job with the resources he had available to him.
    No, Rubi did a terrible job with the resources he had available to him. A remarkable job = a profitable, growing business, like the one Mark Hurd built in 5 years at HP. Unremarkable is taking a company with a known market and a known amount of resources and losing most of that market and those resources in ~2 years.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    No, Rubi did a terrible job with the resources he had available to him. A remarkable job = a profitable, growing business, like the one Mark Hurd built in 5 years at HP. Unremarkable is taking a company with a known market and a known amount of resources and losing most of that market and those resources in ~2 years.
    It is really not fair to compare HP and palm. HP has never been on the brink of failure in the same way palm was when ruby came in.

    Completely unrelated, but I love how everyone claims its the death of palm when an exec at hp sneezes the wrong way
  5. JimHuff's Avatar
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    #65  
    So I guess this is the Official CEO 1.4.5 Anticipation Thread
    FrankenPre2!!!
  6. #66  
    forget all the survey junk, forget all the doubts, they stated that everything is still in place regarding business as usual aspects. Nothing is going to change regarding the path of WebOS as stated by the CFO whos the temp CEO for now. As well as Webos is a huge part of HP's portfolio, who in the hell dosent think so are blind and deaf, because it was mentioned a million times, as well as every meeting involves business related material containing WEbOS. Also yes the CEO has the last say, but it was a collected effort to purchase Palm and Webos, by every top executive in the organization. So rest assured with just Hurd stepping down it dosent mean the road map is changed, and you heard that directly from the mouth of the exec. As for Rubenstien being considered as CEO to me its not a bad idea. Everyone weighs his ability on the Palm downfall, but in reality Palm would have fell faster and sooner if rubenstien didnt come there, and help develop WEBOS. Rubenstien has been with Apple for years before hand too, so in my mind Rubenstein behind not only a stable and powerfull company, he would be surrounded by great business minded employees. He could let the base of the business be BAU, letting the other execs handle the certain parts of the business as they have always been, but he could really drive WEbos to a place that could have never been with the weak finacials at Palm.
  7. #67  
    I'm confused. Just a few weeks ago, Hurd was the most misunderstood man in tech. When he made his several, emphatic comments about the Palm acquisition, all the Palm apologists were quick to come out with statements clarifying what he "really" meant. All those who thought he meant what he seemed to be saying were just Palm hating idiots who should be ashamed of themselves.

    Now, everyone is saying how glad they are to see him go sense he obviously wasn't a strong supporter of the Palm initiative. Which is it? Was he good for Palm a few weeks ago, or not? Did Palm just loose a strong supporter, or not? Rather than trying to spin this one way or the other, every Palm supporter just ought to sit back, take a deep breath, and admit that this whole HP acquisition has been one big cluster "f" of confusion and uncertainty from the very beginning. It will take some time for all of this to sort itself out. But I am certain of at least one thing, none of this is good for Palm in the short term.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I'm confused. Just a few weeks ago, Hurd was the most misunderstood man in tech. When he made his several, emphatic comments about the Palm acquisition, all the Palm apologists were quick to come out with statements clarifying what he "really" meant. All those who thought he meant what he seemed to be saying were just Palm hating idiots who should be ashamed of themselves.

    Now, everyone is saying how glad they are to see him go sense he obviously wasn't a strong supporter of the Palm initiative. Which is it? Was he good for Palm a few weeks ago, or not? Did Palm just loose a strong supporter, or not? Rather than trying to spin this one way or the other, every Palm supporter just ought to sit back, take a deep breath, and admit that this whole HP acquisition has been one big cluster "f" of confusion and uncertainty from the very beginning. It will take some time for all of this to sort itself out. But I am certain of at least one thing, none of this is good for Palm in the short term.
    You see, the problem with your argument is: Hurd simply never made the "emphatic comments" that the press said he did. Rather, his comments were entirely misrepresented, specifically by being taken terribly out of context. This has already been covered ad nauseum. So in fact, there's no reason to think that he wasn't always a supporter of the Palm acquisition for all the right reasons, and anyone who says they're glad to see him go for that reason must have bought into the press's misrepresentation. No inconsistency here.

    I don't agree with you about the acquisition going poorly, and really don't see where you got this idea. The acquisition was negotiated and closed incredibly quickly by the usual standards, and without issue. Everything one might expect to happen during an acquisition did happen, including people leaving, people being let go, and a general radio silence. The "uncertainty" you mention only exists in our minds outside of HP, and it exists because of SEC rules (and legal precedent) that dictate that publicly traded companies can't talk about things during certain periods.

    We were in a quiet period until the acquisition closed, and we're in one now following the end of HP's Q3. The only time anyone could have talked about anything specific was between the close and the end of the quarter, or specifically in July. And what was there to talk about then? I mean, seriously: just how much integration did anyone expect HP and Palm to have accomplished in 30 or so days?
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    Completely unrelated, but I love how everyone claims its the death of palm when an exec at hp sneezes the wrong way
    It may be unrelated to the thread, but this is the most true statement in it. It is truly amazing how people seem to be just looking for reasons why Palm is going to fail.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    No, Rubi did a terrible job with the resources he had available to him. A remarkable job = a profitable, growing business, like the one Mark Hurd built in 5 years at HP. Unremarkable is taking a company with a known market and a known amount of resources and losing most of that market and those resources in ~2 years.
    No, you're wrong: sometimes, keeping a failing company alive is as remarkable a job as making a marginally healthy one more profitable. That's why CEOs sometimes get huge bonuses at companies that are suffering from significant losses and are laying people off. Laypeople don't understand it, but boards of directors usually do: just keeping a company out of bankruptcy can be a great accomplishment.

    The smartphone market became unbelievably competitive quite suddenly starting around the end of 2008, and it wasn't obvious just how much so until around the middle of 2009. When the Pre and webOS were announced in January of 2009, it wasn't clear that Android was going to explode into the market leader it is today. Rather, it looked like the main competition in the US was a failing Windows Mobile, a stagnant RIM, and a dominant Apple.

    So, Palm executed a strategy around a certain definition of a smartphone market that was wrong. It was also the definition that most people bought into. In hindsight it's clear that Android was going to be a much stronger competitor than anyone expect, but that's hindsight. At the time, it seemed like Palm would have more time to build out the platform, but of course they didn't. By the time the Droid ate Palm's lunch at Verizon, it was over--and nobody could have expected at CES last year that such a thing would happen.

    Yes, Rubi made some mistakes, the biggest one being a horrible marketing campaign at the beginning. But I think the idea was sound at the time, if the execution was still poor. I think Palm intended on engaging in a brand awareness campaign at first, rather than a campaign to drive initial sales. I think they did this, again, thinking they had more time than they had.

    Most everything else I think was just the vagaries of the marketplace conspiring against the company. People give Palm a hard time about waiting too long to introduce the Pre after CES, but I think that's backwards. I think instead that Palm introduced the Pre too early. I think it simply wasn't ready to go, and that it took six months because that much time was required to get it out the door. Probably, Palm should have waited until CTIA to announce it, and then release it two months or so later.

    But, if they'd done that, then they wouldn't have dominated the buzz at CES. It's a judgment call, and again things ended up being more competitive than I think anyone thought by the time the Pre was released. And, I think that Palm's poor financial situation caused them to have too few units available for sale at launch, and contributed to the build quality issues. With more money, I think Palm could have resolved the initial quality issues more quickly, perhaps even by simply recalling all of the initial production runs and halting production until the issues could be resolved.

    Even then, the Pre, and the Pixi, could have been more successful if Palm had more money for promoting them and more clout in the initial negotiations with Sprint. A six-month exclusive was the death knell for the Pre, because if they could have introduced at Verizon before the Droid I do think the Pre+ would have done well enough to keep Palm independent. I think we all know that Verizon would have pushed the Pre much, much harder if it had come before the Droid, and the Droid would not have competed that well against an entrenched Pre.

    And yet, by April, Palm had succeeded in bringing webOS to the point that HP saw $1.2 billion worth of value in it. They'd fixed the biggest problems with the Pre in the Pre Plus, and had a fairly successful launch at AT&T. The SDK was mostly fleshed out, and webOS was suddenly recognized as the second-best gaming smartphone platform on the market (the PDK was a brilliant move, and remains so).

    And Palm now serves at the center of HP's strategy for being dominant in mobile, stepping nicely into that big gaping hole that HP had prior to making the acquisition. webOS is universally recognized as one of the best, if not the best, mobile OSs on the market, and the most future-looking. It's based on all the technologies that are just now coming into vogue, and has enough improvements in the pipeline to make webOS 2.0 better than iOS 4.X and Android 3.X.

    I think that's pretty darn good for a company that was struggling to stay afloat for over 18 months.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    ...
    Yes, Rubi made some mistakes, the biggest one being a horrible marketing campaign at the beginning. But I think the idea was sound at the time, if the execution was still poor. I think Palm intended on engaging in a brand awareness campaign at first, rather than a campaign to drive initial sales. I think they did this, again, thinking they had more time than they had.

    ... the build quality issues. With more money, I think Palm could have resolved the initial quality issues more quickly, perhaps even by simply recalling all of the initial production runs and halting production until the issues could be resolved.

    Even then, the Pre, and the Pixi, could have been more successful if Palm had more money for promoting them and more clout in the initial negotiations with Sprint. A six-month exclusive was the death knell for the Pre, because if they could have introduced at Verizon before the Droid I do think the Pre+ would have done well enough to keep Palm independent. I think we all know that Verizon would have pushed the Pre much, much harder if it had come before the Droid, and the Droid would not have competed that well against an entrenched Pre...
    you mention but don't focus on those key mistakes -- mistakes he has to take responsibility for.

    Yes they were short of money -- but thats why they could not afford to screw up the intro like they did.

    As for the 6 month Sprint lock -- the EVO seems to be doing fine -- who else sells that ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #72  
    I agree with wynad32 rubi did a remarketable job keeping Palm alive long enough to be bought out by HP. Use your head if Rubenistein never came to Palm, and brought with him Webos Palm would have folded as a company, and only bought for its patents. Now since Rubenstein made a huge noise with Webos it caught alot of peoples attention, and now has the ability to live on through HP. People only look at sucess at just the moment, when sucess for instance for Webos could be this very moment in time with a huge company like HP. Hence if Rub never came to Palm and introduced a valuable assest in Webos, Palm would have ceased to exist, only to be mentioned as one of the cofounders of mobile touchscreen devices. Without money, and resources and a brand new OS I think nobody could have done a better job then what Rub did, as he did the same with Apple (when they were sinking) when he developed the first ipod. I'm tired of people complaining on here, and pointing the finger at Rubenstien now, and when Palm was a single intenty. He did everything in his power to introduce, develop, support, and broadcast Webos as well as keep us in the loop on what was going on. He touched on every concern with the record number of updates the best he could. So to me he is a very capable, and exceptional engineer and I would vouch for him being considered for a CEO position at HP.
  13. #73  
    I don't know whether your post would be classified as revisionist history, or clinical denial. This was my favorite part. Of the Pre Plus, you said it...

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    had a fairly successful launch at AT&T.
    Did you mean the part where they couldn't sell them for free, or the part where they couldn't move them even with a $50 gift card? You don't want to admit that Palm is in a bit of a pickle? Fine, but don't just make crap up so that Ruby doesn't look like the Keystone cop that he has turned out to be.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    you mention but don't focus on those key mistakes -- mistakes he has to take responsibility for.

    Yes they were short of money -- but thats why they could not afford to screw up the intro like they did.

    As for the 6 month Sprint lock -- the EVO seems to be doing fine -- who else sells that ??
    No, their lack of money dictated their decisions. I stand by my position that Palm did pretty well, considering everything.

    HTC is not in the position that Palm was in, which of course is my point.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Hmm...a huge company with some 300,000 employees acquires a small company with some 1000 employees. The small company never came close to making a profit during the couple of years that their CEO was there, ran out of money, and had to be sold to the huge company. So, after a month, the huge company then considers the CEO of the small company for its own CEO position? Ridiculous.
    Who said that HP is considering Rubinstein for CEO? That's all coming (I think mostly tongue-in-cheek) from Palm enthusiasts. Speaking for myself, I've already said Rubi's not a good candidate for the job; I'm simply arguing that he hasn't done the horrible job at Palm that some are saying he has.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  16. #76  
    Dupe.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You don't want to admit that Palm is in a bit of a pickle?
    Since you're cool with picking things out and handling them out of context, fine. Why do you say Palm is "in a bit of a pickle"? I'd say they're incredibly well positioned now, being at the center of the mobile strategy for the largest tech company in the world.

    I mean, I'm sure that some of you folks on this forum know business so much better than those idiots at HP that are running a growing, highly profitable $120 billion dollar company. Certainly, you have knowledge and experience that trumps theirs, and so they should listen to you when you say that Rubinstein is an ***** and shouldn't still be at the helm of the Palm business unit.

    For myself, I'll take their vote of confidence to mean something.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    By the way, HP fired their CEO because he had dinners on the road with a consultant, picked up the tab, expensed the entire meal as his own, and may or may not have made a pass at her.

    Seems pretty strange, doesn't it? I'm not sure what is sexual harassment about that if the woman wasn't an employee. Hurd will be back as CEO of another major company. He did a pretty good job at HP and guys like him are hard to come by.
    Not strange at all. First, the sexual harassment claim was dismissed pretty early in the investigation, so that's not even a question. And, he didn't just expense some meals. It appears that the woman didn't perform all of the marketing services that she was paid for--obviously, that's a clear violation of a company's ethics policies.

    Second, in either case, the CEO has to set the example for the entire company. If he breaks these sorts of rules, how can he possibly stand there and tell the rest of the company that it should comport itself with integrity and honesty?

    He might very well be back at CEO at another company. That sort of thing does happen. But that doesn't mean he should have stayed at HP.

    And no, great CEOs aren't a dime a dozen. But there are plenty of other good people out there. An example is Todd Bradley, who grew HP's Personal Systems Group from $28 billion to $42 billion in three years, and put them into first place in an incredibly competitive market. He has the experience and ability to lead HP, and I hope they give him serious consideration.

    The fact that he's also the former CEO of Palm, and spearheaded the Palm acquisition, is just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyruz Reaper View Post
    Got that rich-guy-in-a-position-of-power disease, eh?

    Sad. You have to appreciate things, or you will lose them.

    Enough on that. The strategic plans for the products have no need to change, as they don't involve any specific executives.
    Prē
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I'm confused. Just a few weeks ago, Hurd was the most misunderstood man in tech. When he made his several, emphatic comments about the Palm acquisition, all the Palm apologists were quick to come out with statements clarifying what he "really" meant. All those who thought he meant what he seemed to be saying were just Palm hating idiots who should be ashamed of themselves.

    Now, everyone is saying how glad they are to see him go sense he obviously wasn't a strong supporter of the Palm initiative. Which is it? Was he good for Palm a few weeks ago, or not? Did Palm just loose a strong supporter, or not? Rather than trying to spin this one way or the other, every Palm supporter just ought to sit back, take a deep breath, and admit that this whole HP acquisition has been one big cluster "f" of confusion and uncertainty from the very beginning. It will take some time for all of this to sort itself out. But I am certain of at least one thing, none of this is good for Palm in the short term.
    You are in fact the one spinning statements up. No one liked Hurd after he said that HP didn't buy palm to get in the smartphone business. The argument came after the fact when he went back on his statement, and people on the palm side were arguing whether or not his second statement was sincere. I never read one post of anyone saying "OMG Mark Hurd is a beat!" after he clarified things.

    Secondly, how does any of this affect palm in the short term. Mark Hurd had no influence on them in the short time he was CEO of the company that now owns palm. It will still be business as usual in Sunnyvale.

    I think this is great news for palm personally, there have been people that have hated Mark Hurd long before they had anything to do with Palm http://****youmarkhurd.com/
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