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  1. #21  
    I generally don't see much reason for desktop clients, but there is one piece of functionality that I really love about the Blackberry Desktop Manager: I can tell the server which folders in Exchange to synchronize with my Blackberry. I have hundreds of folders and dozens of filters, and more than half of the mail I receive never reaches my Blackberry. I would love to do the same with the Pre, though my Gmail label list is much, much shorter.
  2. #22  
    I am never opposed to having some sort of desktop client on top of everything else we have. To have a more advanced view into the app catalog, possibly with demos or videos of sorts would be neat as well.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    personally, I think Outlook is so ubiquitous that it wouldn't make sense to create another desktop app. I'd just like to see them build in a third-party sync product like they did the Centro...
    You'll probably find this of interest:

    Email client popularity - Email Stats & Reports - Email Clients - Campaign Monitor

    It's a bit dated, but the trending was down for Outlook (and I suspect that's still the case).

    Keep in mind, Outlook is a client. The Palm Pre's email app is a client. It doesn't really make sense to sync from a client to a client. Client software should sync to the system, not each other.
  4. #24  
    Wow I'm really impressed with the webOS crowd. I remember when webOS was announced and before the Pre came out there were so, so many people whining about a desktop sync solution. Now look how far you all have come. Everyone gets the cloud sync idea. *tears up*
  5.    #25  
    Some people don't get what I was saying, that is ok. Some don't see a utulity, ok. But the folks that say "Palm needs to build something to sync to (other program)" really don't get it.

    The progams that folks have said should be supported are all built by Palm's biggest competitors in Smartphones:

    iCal is an Apple product
    Exchange and Outlook are by Microsoft
    Google docs, mail, calendar etc are all obviously cousins of Android.

    (I know there is no alternative to Google's tools right now)

    Reliance on software from your competitors doesn't make sense. Secondary support for your customers that need it is ok, but use your own software as primary.

    Why should HP distirbute their competitor's software? Publish your own software so your customers do not have to deal with syncing, or extra tubes, cables, and conduits.

    I don't think some folks are getting that the user would never have to perform, or think about, sync. The desktop, phone, tablet, ... all draw their data from the same source (hopefully with redundancy built in). <strong>Your phone never has to be connected to your computer in any way. </strong> But all of your data is in both places, all the time.

    If you lose your phone, or the battery runs out, you can open up the webOS desktop and all your data is there.

    You could be out of town for a week, making a ton of changes: moving appointments, adding contacts, rewriting memos,...

    Then on the way home you accidentally leave your phone in the taxi.

    No problem. Turn on a computer at home. All of your data is there. All of your changes are intact. No sync, no connection.

    You go to the office the next day, still no phone, open the Desktop on your computer at work, and the data is all there also.

    Run out at lunch and buy a new phone. Sign into it. An hour later, all of your data is in the new phone. No sync or transfer necessary.

    Building an OSx version and a Windows version isn't a problem for a big company like HP.
  6. #26  
    I'm not holding my breath that the OP's dream is coming, but I'd love to see desktop sync return. I have multiple reasons why the current tools don't work as well for me as Palm Desktop did:

    everything in one place (Universal Search still isn't) - Now, when looking for info, which app do I search: Jvault, Notes, or ?). Some allow me to send things to myself for storage, some sync to google docs - I never know whether to search email or gdocs. A flow problem on my end to be sure, but this is a PIM. FROM PALM. Seriously?

    No wifi syncing for me at work and no signal (in the jails) at times when I need to access memos on Evernote or other cloud info) to start with.

    Oh, another issue: on my PC, to look up contacts for use in my multiple email accounts I now have to have 2 different browsers open, one so I can see my gmail (default) contacts in one and another to access an alternate gmail account (heavily used but not primary) in the other. I don't consider that an advancement over Palm desktop. With Palm Desktop I didn't really worry about my email contacts lists because everything was stored in Palm Desktop regardless of which email account I was using. When I wanted to know the current info, the Treo/Palm Desktop had it.

    And heaven forbid the network is sluggish or down at the moment. Can't even look up a phone number on the PC that is in my contacts. Yes, I know, I still have my phone. And there's Outlook. Outlook is clunky compared to the Palm Desktop.

    There is a valid reason we like the desktop app as a place for editing and accessing the info we also collect/use on the phone. Desktop search is quicker and * right here * instead of waking the phone and searching. Or, as now, having to kill the USB access to the phone to us it to look up a phone number. A desktop app gives us that choice.

    Everything in one place (and backed up). For a PIM that seems to make sense.

    Ok, anything else I say will turn me into a whiner (er, no, I don't think I am yet... ) All I'm trying to say is the cloud is here and I respect that. But it needn't be the only solution and isn't necessarily the best for everyone's situation or usage.

    So, to OP, all I say is:

    +1

    p.s. many thanks to all the devs who have made WebOS do what it does. I think it is beautiful and it is a joy to use. Seriously.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by SFHandyman View Post
    Some people don't get what I was saying, that is ok. Some don't see a utulity, ok. But the folks that say "Palm needs to build something to sync to (other program)" really don't get it.

    The progams that folks have said should be supported are all built by Palm's biggest competitors in Smartphones:

    iCal is an Apple product
    Exchange and Outlook are by Microsoft
    Google docs, mail, calendar etc are all obviously cousins of Android.

    (I know there is no alternative to Google's tools right now)

    Reliance on software from your competitors doesn't make sense. Secondary support for your customers that need it is ok, but use your own software as primary.

    Why should HP distirbute their competitor's software? Publish your own software so your customers do not have to deal with syncing, or extra tubes, cables, and conduits.

    I don't think some folks are getting that the user would never have to perform, or think about, sync. The desktop, phone, tablet, ... all draw their data from the same source (hopefully with redundancy built in). <strong>Your phone never has to be connected to your computer in any way. </strong> But all of your data is in both places, all the time.

    If you lose your phone, or the battery runs out, you can open up the webOS desktop and all your data is there.

    You could be out of town for a week, making a ton of changes: moving appointments, adding contacts, rewriting memos,...

    Then on the way home you accidentally leave your phone in the taxi.

    No problem. Turn on a computer at home. All of your data is there. All of your changes are intact. No sync, no connection.

    You go to the office the next day, still no phone, open the Desktop on your computer at work, and the data is all there also.

    Run out at lunch and buy a new phone. Sign into it. An hour later, all of your data is in the new phone. No sync or transfer necessary.

    Building an OSx version and a Windows version isn't a problem for a big company like HP.
    I just re-read this post, and I think I understand. You basically want your PC to do exactly what your phone does, automatically. I can see the attraction of that, although I don't have a problem pushing the "sync" button when I hit the wifi at home. I think CompanionLink also has a realtime OTA sync option.

    In fact, what you describe is exactly how EAS works with Exchange. webOS works as well with Exchange as my blackberry did.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I just re-read this post, and I think I understand. You basically want your PC to do exactly what your phone does, automatically. I can see the attraction of that, although I don't have a problem pushing the "sync" button when I hit the wifi at home. I think CompanionLink also has a realtime OTA sync option.

    In fact, what you describe is exactly how EAS works with Exchange. webOS works as well with Exchange as my blackberry did.

    This would have saved me all that typing if I'd have been a little slower to respond. Well said.
    My frustration w/HP best characterized by Col George Taylor.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garage91 View Post
    I don't want a desktop client. I want a mobileme solution. the idea of webOS is that everything is in the cloud, why do I need a desktop client? and frankly, I wouldnt mind paying 100/year for that.
    From what I understand, MobileMe is .Mac upgraded and helps maintain all your info, using the cloud, and syncs it with your phone, correct? Thats kinda what WebOS does, built in, but with facebook and google's services.

    However, i agree they need a desktop software, but more akin to iTunes to handle their own music software, and a quick and easy way to sync the music you buy from your phone to your desktop. Apple loves would cry foul, but it is a standard i believe now and would make things easier for their customer.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by SFHandyman View Post
    iCal is an Apple product
    Exchange and Outlook are by Microsoft
    Google docs, mail, calendar etc are all obviously cousins of Android.

    (I know there is no alternative to Google's tools right now)

    Reliance on software from your competitors doesn't make sense. Secondary support for your customers that need it is ok, but use your own software as primary.

    Why should HP distirbute their competitor's software? Publish your own software so your customers do not have to deal with syncing, or extra tubes, cables, and conduits.
    iCal uses the well established, documented, and universally accepted WebDAV standard. Outlook uses the well-established, documented ad universally accepted Exchange Server standards. Googles products all use well-established, documented and universally accepted standards (MS Office, IMAP, WebDAV). Are you really suggesting HP would be helping the industry by making up their own standards to drive their otherwise unknown phones? How does that serve the WebOS community?
  11. #31  
    Well... I don't believe in this.

    The best is use some version of last Palm Desktop...


    Best Regards...
  12. #32  
    I don't get why this would need to be a full-fledged app even. Tie it in with your Palm Profile, and make it web-based.

    That way, they wouldn't have to start from square one, and could use most of the code that is behind the Pre's stuff anyway.

    There's solutions for using that sort of thing offline on the desktop as well.

    ... Or would that still not be enough for the people clamoring for desktop sync?
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    #33  
    I'd only be interested in something like this if it was like Kin Studio, and let you access your photos anywhere, send to Facebook from there, etc.

    I wouldn't care about a straightforward two way sync between PC and Pre I don't think.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    iCal uses the well established, documented, and universally accepted WebDAV standard. Outlook uses the well-established, documented ad universally accepted Exchange Server standards. Googles products all use well-established, documented and universally accepted standards (MS Office, IMAP, WebDAV). Are you really suggesting HP would be helping the industry by making up their own standards to drive their otherwise unknown phones? How does that serve the WebOS community?
    It would useful for webOS users because we then wouldn't need to rely on 3rd party competition to provide us basic functionality on our phones. We rely on many google services and you see how well that turns out for us. I'm all for standards but I'm also for having first party services so palm doesn't have to rely on competition. Besides, just because something is a standard doesn't mean it wrong to try and compete with it.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    It would useful for webOS users because we then wouldn't need to rely on 3rd party competition to provide us basic functionality on our phones. We rely on many google services and you see how well that turns out for us. I'm all for standards but I'm also for having first party services so palm doesn't have to rely on competition. Besides, just because something is a standard doesn't mean it wrong to try and compete with it.
    In addition to iPhone and Android, Windows Mobile and Blackberry can be made to rely on Google's services too - rather seamlessly - with no hassle. Why is it Palm can't seem to make it work?

    If they can't make their software work with established, third-party APIs like everyone else, how does that bode for them being able to write and support their own software to provide the same services?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    In addition to iPhone and Android, Windows Mobile and Blackberry can be made to rely on Google's services too - rather seamlessly - with no hassle. Why is it Palm can't seem to make it work?

    If they can't make their software work with established, third-party APIs like everyone else, how does that bode for them being able to write and support their own software to provide the same services?
    Good question. And I'm not techie enough to have a clue.

    The PIM is what attracted me to Palm in the beginning (circa 1999/2000). The managing is gone and replaced with a lot of stand alone apps that make finding and keeping things synced a bit more challenging. As a bit of a Palm fan girl I bought the Pre expecting it to arrive eventually. But it sounds like the future is web services and the cloud, which splinters my data (Flicker, Google docs, Calendars, Evernote, tasks, etc) So when I search, I have to search multiple sites instead of searching my phone or Palm Desktop).

    You cloud supporters don't have to like what those of us who clamor for desktop or PC sync say, but consider all the others who didn't get what they wanted (to some extent) from Palm who are already gone. I doubt poor hardware alone drove away long time Palm users. Speaking only as a Palm fan who wants to see the company succeed.

    As pretty as WebOS is to use, it is still lacking a big chunk of what made Palm the "go-to" PIM. Keep the cloud for backup and even access, but give me a centralized place on my desktop where I can find/edit the data in my phone for when I don't have web access and have it easily sync (not having to copy and paste or manually import files). It is not a good information manager, yet. Mode Switcher may help by opening and allowing apps to sync on schedule. But I'm sitting here with the Evernote app once again locked as it tries to load the data I recently entered on the Evernote site. Unusable.

    PIM kept (some) people loyal to Palm but when that went away, there was nothing to keep them here. I have no stats so I'm just ranting on an internet forum, but seems to me that is as much to blame as the hardware.

    Oh, and as long as I'm wish-listing, keep my portrait physical keyboard, too! I don't get the attraction to landscape when portrait allows one handed dialing, texting, surfing, etc. I love how easy the Pre is to use with one hand. I always seem to be carrying a drink or tote bag in my hand, so this is a great feature. Hardware, not software, but it probably re-enforces my apparent old school tendencies.
  17. #37  
    I don't see the point of a WebOS desktop. I never used the PalmOS desktop, and sync'd directly to outlook. Plus, it really doesn't seem to go with the whole "cloud" thing. Personally, I want to ditch my laptop and go totally mobile, maybe an app to backup my data would be cool.
    <This Page is Blank>
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilduckster View Post
    I don't see the point of a WebOS desktop. I never used the PalmOS desktop, and sync'd directly to outlook. Plus, it really doesn't seem to go with the whole "cloud" thing. Personally, I want to ditch my laptop and go totally mobile, maybe an app to backup my data would be cool.
    A webOS Desktop goes with the cloud 100%. The idea of the cloud is not having the info off of your phone.

    The point is to have it everywhere. Your data should follow you where ever you go, including the desktop.

    It isn't a second set of data. The data is always pulled from the same source.

    A second set of data is backup and that needs to be addressed also.
  19. #39  
    I think some posters here haven't read the whole thread, just saying no, or go use old palm desktop don't get it at all apparently.(cant sync with it, just a one way transfer)

    We are not talking about a desktop manager, merely access from a, no any pc, any where, any time to our palm profile. Its our information, we should be able to view and edit it.

    Kinda like signing into msn, you have access to messenger, hotmail, etc., however, also allow backup for offline use.

    relying on everyone else's products presents problems because, they change things, then palm has to devert resources to make those work.

    by merely allowing access to edit and backup the palm profile via mypalm or something else, i would be happy.
    Last edited by toyotast165; 08/04/2010 at 12:06 AM.
    Palm prē-ist.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by toyotast165 View Post
    I think some posters here haven't read the whole thread, just saying no, or go use old palm desktop don't get it at all apparently.(cant sync with it, just a one way transfer)

    We are not talking about a desktop manager, merely access from a, no any pc, any where, any time to our palm profile. Its our information, we should be able to view and edit it.

    Kinda like signing into msn, you have access to messenger, hotmail, etc., however, also allow backup for offline use.

    relying on everyone else's products presents problems because, they change things, then palm has to devert resources to make those work.

    by merely allowing access to edit and backup the palm profile via mypalm or something else, i would be happy.
    Yay, you got it. MSN is a good example.
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