Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1.    #1  
    (this is all personal opinion)

    Palms main problem, is that they have horrible mindshare, and that's because they nearly went bankrupt for multiple reasons. The problem is, when ever they improve something, their other flaws are still in peoples heads. That's why they aren't releasing the mic api yet, anouncing a new device, or new os features. They want to wait, and attack everything all at once, make the news, and gain mindshare!

    Here are their main problems:

    1. Old device

    2. OS flaws, (people don't look at what you do better, they look at what you do worse)

    3. Marketing (advertising, and carrier relationship)

    4. Developers ( not enough apps)




    Palm could release a new device, and while it will do better, it won't be enough, that's why they are planning a major os upgrade for fall, and it's speculated, and I believe new hardware will come out by the end of this year, so late fall works. But most carriers don't want to risk much money with palm, not after what happen with the pre. I doubt they'd be willing to spend much on marketing, that's why HP is going to have to do, what verizon did, and spend 100 million (probably more, since hp is worldwide.) on advertising. A new add campaign, and everything. Go from worst to best,do what sony did with the PS3.



    Then we get to the final, yet complexe problem, Developers. Most consumer won't buy a smartphone unless there are enough apps, and most devs won't make an app unless theres enough consumers to buy them. Palm's efforts to get developers have been amazing, unfortunately the same can't be said about the results. Another hot apps programs will not get the developers attention. Cause it's nothing new. Developers will be like "heh, another one of those". New api's would be like "heh, well there isn't enough consumers.", etc..


    They need to do all that at once, plus something more.What they need is something big, huge, and unheard of; you guessed it, a 20 million dollar hot apps program. It might sound like alot of money, but Hp will be making over 100 dollars per phone sold, so if you beleive the 20 million worth of apps will move another 0.2 million phones, then it won't cost them a dime..

    At first i thought of 10 million, it's a big number, and will make the news, but when i broke it down 20 million was way better at attracting small, and big-name developers.

    heres the 20 million hot apps program:

    2: $1 million prizes (this will make the news, like no other) (who want's to millionaire?)

    8:$500,000 prizes (Devs will be doubtful of having the best free, or best paid app, but the top 20 iphone, and android devs will be fairly confident about their odds of being top 5 free, or top 5 paid on a platform with less than 5000 apps.)

    50: $100,000 prizes, (this is more than enough to change the life of alot of devs, and more than enough cash to attract small developer teams. Alot of devs will be aiming for the 1, or 0.5 million, but 10 prizes isn't enough hope. This is an amazing mix of hope, and cash

    400: $10,000 prizes, it's an amazing price for a developer, and a great back-up to cover the cost of a team of devs aiming for the 1, 0.5, 0.1 million.


    5000: $1000 prizes, it's a good amount of money for developers who are not currently making alot of money, or a back-up for a dev making decent money on the iphone/android who's aiming for the 0.1, or 0.01 million. Most devs have more than one app, so even if they don't do to good, they could make a few thousand.



    Palm could also introduce another 50% off everything sale in the app catalog for the holiday seasons, or perhaps a new 75% off everything sale just to make it seems new. ( make it worldwide this time, to avoid any negative talk)

    Give the devs a 1-2 months head start, and make the program last till the end of the year, (2-4 months). After this ends, the platform will have a fair amount of new quality apps, including a fair amount of free apps that cost money on other platforms. The number of new apps will most likely be North of 20k, which is more than enough to attract consumers wanting to buy the phone. I believe it will, at the very least help move 0.2 million more phones.


    Opinions?

    (The reason i broke it down in the numbers I did, I wanted it to have significant enough chance, and cash for all size teams, with a back-up that covers their time/cost spend.)
  2. #2  
    I would love to see that happen.

    If HP can get together with Verizon and around the holiday shopping season and launch a HUGE Droid scale ad campaign that would really hype the new hardware that is speculated to be released just in time or the holidays.

    I also want to see several form factors so no matter which type you want WebOS will have it.
  3. #3  
    That's a neat idea. I do hope they're considering something to spur app development. Though it doesn't matter in my book, the market has begun judging smartphones by the breadth of their app catalogs - Palm has a lot of catching up to do in that area.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by pre-fan View Post
    That's a neat idea. I do hope they're considering something to spur app development. Though it doesn't matter in my book, the market has begun judging smartphones by the breadth of their app catalogs - Palm has a lot of catching up to do in that area.
    personally I wish palm spend the cash on free apps, and mainly made it high quantities of cash, so that we would instead get a handfull of quality apps.

    but it wouldn't be a smart business move...
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think it's pretty ironic that Palm is spending all of this money trying to pay developers to make apps when, at launch, they wouldn't even bundle the one app that could have made a difference to Palm OS users - Classic. If they had bundled Classic with the Pre and Pixi then they would have been able to claim a large catalog of Palm OS apps from the beginning.
    It's not ironic, it's business. Palm simply couldn't afford to bundle Classic, or anything else. With HP, that concern is obliterated--money is no longer the object. And I'm sure that we're going to see some very, very aggressive moves by HP/Palm to spur development.

    We all just need to keep in mind that the acquisition closed less than three weeks ago. These things take time. And to anticipate the complaints: yes, people will leave webOS in the meantime. Nothing can be done about that, short of performing some kind of miracle. And personally, I don't believe in miracles.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think it's pretty ironic that Palm is spending all of this money trying to pay developers to make apps when, at launch, they wouldn't even bundle the one app that could have made a difference to Palm OS users - Classic. If they had bundled Classic with the Pre and Pixi then they would have been able to claim a large catalog of Palm OS apps from the beginning.
    palm was expecting web developers to start making apps right away, and thought they would sold over 10 million phones by now, but things didn't quite work out...
  7.    #7  
    Most likely not a smart business move (would need to sell a million devices to recover costs), but fun to think about how many apps would be created because of this)

    100 million hot apps program

    Half for free app, Half for paid apps.

    Quantity: prize (cost)
    2: $1 million prizes (cost $2 million)

    50: $500k prizes (cost $25 million)

    500: $100k prizes ( cost $50 million)

    1000: $20k prizes (cost $20 million)

    15k: palm phone prizes (cost about $3 million advertises as $9 million)


    The lack of app problem would be solved in a month. Although i'd re-introduce a fee for getting in the catalog to reduce spam apps, cause boy you'd get alot of spam apps.
  8. #8  
    But, the main problem with this is that the App Catalog does not allow returns. So, if you just go by download counts you will always end up with some apps that stink, but have great names and descriptions, scoring high.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    But, the main problem with this is that the App Catalog does not allow returns. So, if you just go by download counts you will always end up with some apps that stink, but have great names and descriptions, scoring high.
    Good point, free apps should be: downloaded, and kept for 24 hours..

    Paid apps, palm can't do anything yet, because a return policy isn't usually loved by developers. They need to wait until they have atleast 20k apps, then they can do that.
  10. #10  
    Nimer, I think this would be a great idea. I would suspect it would create a ton of new quality apps, however, I still feel that HP should go to the top iphone and android devs and pay them outright to port over and support their apps on webOS.

    I think this, coupled with a good (100m+) ad campaign,would catapult webOS to a respectable market share. It would be an expensive endeavor but the cost would be primarily up front as I see it. Once webOS is known to the general consumers, I suspect costs for promoting it would drop significantly.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think it's pretty ironic that Palm is spending all of this money trying to pay developers to make apps when, at launch, they wouldn't even bundle the one app that could have made a difference to Palm OS users - Classic. If they had bundled Classic with the Pre and Pixi then they would have been able to claim a large catalog of Palm OS apps from the beginning.
    And then the would have been saddled with supporting/resolving all of the complaints of "this isn't working"... Personally, I think they made the right choice.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    Nimer, I think this would be a great idea. I would suspect it would create a ton of new quality apps, however, I still feel that HP should go to the top iphone and android devs and pay them outright to port over and support their apps on webOS.

    I think this, coupled with a good (100m+) ad campaign,would catapult webOS to a respectable market share. It would be an expensive endeavor but the cost would be primarily up front as I see it. Once webOS is known to the general consumers, I suspect costs for promoting it would drop significantly.
    Pay them, or even supply the personnel to port the apps. If HP is serious about making WebOS a good mobile platform, they need to dedicate resources (and sometimes $$$ alone is not enough, depending on the developer) to the effort. I can tell you for a fact that WebOS just isn't on the Netflix or Hulu radars at this time. But these apps (among others) are needed to seriously bolster the Pre's multimedia chops. With such a small user base at this present time, the only way to ensure delivery of these apps is for HP to offer the personnel, financial resources, and time investment required to port them over. And that's much cheaper than a "hot app" program, doubly so in the long run.
  13. #13  
    great idea. Mark Hurd could fund this out of his severance... oh, wait...

    seriously, this would be cheaper than the poor advertising they've done. A prize that big would get some serious press and attention...
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



    ...Now accepting orders for my upcoming iHandle™.
    Reserve yours today!
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I think it's pretty ironic that Palm is spending all of this money trying to pay developers to make apps when, at launch, they wouldn't even bundle the one app that could have made a difference to Palm OS users - Classic. If they had bundled Classic with the Pre and Pixi then they would have been able to claim a large catalog of Palm OS apps from the beginning.
    Weeks after the Pre was introed at CES I wrote much the same.

    Palm could easily have made "classic" integral to the Pre -- they did not because they were trying to make a "statement" -- that they were making an irrevocable break from their POS past.

    This was a mistake -- as I foresaw then they alienated many of their former loyal developers and users who could have been a much more valuable base from where they could have grown.


    2/16/2009:

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post


    ...I've watched with combined curiosity, interest, disappointment, and amusement as the Pre has been introduced -- to a largely star struck press ( -- and the forum here). Collectively nearly everyone (here most especially) has received the prospective Pre as the unveiling of a new Jonas Brother (apologies to Alec Baldwin).

    Though I can see much that is promising in this new smartphone platform, my native skepticism makes me reserve judgment until its released, used, and its inevitable kinks, fixed.

    I understand that they need to use this hype to promote this device because they lack the resources to do it themselves. Cleverly they have revealed just enough leg that even jaded smartphone enthusiasts like those in this forum, are panting breathlessly at any tidbit or pic -- like a bunch of breathless schoolgirls drooling over a teen mag.

    The Pre's success is guaranteed, right ??

    Maybe.

    If these were normal times, not a period when junior's depression has made people defer buying a fresh pair of shoes, are worried about their jobs, and are debating whether to make a mortgage payment on their home -- maybe the Pre would have a successful introduction to rival Job's jesus phone.

    But maybe its not the best climate for introducing an expensive unnecessary product -- a product that by any definition is a luxury...

    Maybe the synergistic ecosystem of Apps, dodads, and accessories will be slow to develop. Maybe some who covet and desire the Pre will in spite of themselves -- wait -- maybe putting off committing to it until it gets more established, hoping perhaps for the intro price to come down, perhaps for the prospects of their own company and their own job to seem more secure, less speculative.

    Palm (and its angel, Elevation Partners) have expended all their available resources for this launch. Together they are holding next to nothing in reserve. They must succeed immediately and in a big way, since they are not likely to get financing or credit (given the current environment), from any other source.

    Palm cannot afford to lose a single potential sale.

    Yet ...

    they have for strategic reasons made some choices that I have to think alienated some of their potentially most loyal and most likely to upgrade, customers:

    Palm OS users.

    There are millions of them still around -- many are sophisticated and affluent -- users who have long been covetous of some of the advanced features of the iPhone, for example. Users who are impatiently chafing at the prospect of having an advanced phone to finally call their own.

    ...some have become dependent on some specific POS applications – on certain specific uses of their POS devices which they have loyally carried for years. And on which they have trusted a lifetime of data and contacts.

    Many of these customers – Pre’s natural audience – may well hang back until these applications are rewritten for the Pre, or until they are certain that the Pre will enable an unglitchy transition for their data. A transition that would require for many of them, a means of enabling local sync to their data.

    Perhaps there are not many who are this “hold back” category, perhaps it will be no more than 10% of the Pre’s potential customers.

    I know though, that this category includes me.

    And its sad because this was so easily avoidable – Palm could seamlessly have incorporated its own (or accommodated the 3rd party creation of) an emulator; it could easily have enabled local data syncing to its legacy desktop application.

    Probably for reasons having to do with marketing, with the image it wanted to project, Palm chose to strangle its old infirm father in his bed.

    FWIW, I understand why Palm has bet its life on this new device -- and why it is making an irrevocable break with its past.

    Despite everything I’ve written, despite my skepticism, I want them to succeed.

    I fear that they may not.

    Why am I wrong – why will the Pre succeed despite the desperate economic environment, despite alienating many of its most loyal customers, despite being aligned with Sprint, the weakest of the major carriers ??

    What am I not seeing ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/09/2010 at 11:18 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    Most likely not a smart business move (would need to sell a million devices to recover costs), but fun to think about how many apps would be created because of this)

    100 million hot apps program

    Half for free app, Half for paid apps.

    Quantity: prize (cost)
    2: $1 million prizes (cost $2 million)

    50: $500k prizes (cost $25 million)

    500: $100k prizes ( cost $50 million)

    1000: $20k prizes (cost $20 million)

    15k: palm phone prizes (cost about $3 million advertises as $9 million)


    The lack of app problem would be solved in a month. Although i'd re-introduce a fee for getting in the catalog to reduce spam apps, cause boy you'd get alot of spam apps.
    HP, once again, proving they're doing things on the cheap. 2.5 years ago, Apple did the same thing with the iPhone Developers Fund, except it was for $100 million and they already had a full up SDK available to potential developers. That's how you fill up an app store ... and make back your money.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    HP, once again, proving they're doing things on the cheap. 2.5 years ago, Apple did the same thing with the iPhone Developers Fund, except it was for $100 million and they already had a full up SDK available to potential developers. That's how you fill up an app store ... and make back your money.
    I've often been highly critical of both Apple and Jobs -- but I recognize that Steve has always seen his products and his business in a synergistic comprehensive way. Sony and M$ have attempted to emulate Apple -- but their failures do more to demonstrate how difficult what Jobs does seemingly effortlessly, is to achieve.

    Everything Apple does is more than additive -- its self reenforcing, and holistic.

    He did not care that they made no money from music initially. He did not care that they lost money from the stores initially. He understood how value could be created by investing millions toward incubating Apps for the iOS platforms.

    Jobs appreciated how iPods, iTunes, iPhones, App Store, iPads, and Macs are ultimately all parts of a greater Apple ecosystem.
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/09/2010 at 10:02 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I've often been highly critical of both Apple and Jobs -- but I recognize that Steve has always seen his products and his business in a synergistic comprehensive way. Sony and M$ have attempted to emulate Apple -- but their failures do more to demonstrate hard hard what Jobs does, is to achieve.

    Everything Apple does is more than additive -- its self reenforcing, and holistic.

    He did not care that they made no money from music initially. He did not care that they lost money from the stores initially. He understood how value could be created by investing millions toward incubating Apps for the iOS platforms.

    Jobs appreciated how iPods, iTunes, iPhones, App Store, iPads, and Macs are ultimately all parts of a greater Apple ecosystem.
    sony is like apple without the software..

    Seriously, they have nice hardware, charge a premium price, but the software is missing. Which use to no matter at all, so they did great. But now, things have changed.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    sony is like apple without the software..

    Seriously, they have nice hardware, charge a premium price, but the software is missing. Which use to no matter at all, so they did great. But now, things have changed.
    yup.

    I remember when the first iPods came out -- Asian OEMs like Creative laughed off the idea that a PC company could compete with consumers.

    M$, Real, Sony, Napster, Sandisk etc. etc. ultimately all thought they understood how to compete with iTunes.

    Everything Jobs does becomes another brick in his walled garden.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  19.    #19  
    Let's say they can make a great looking phone(s), running omap 4, 1gb of ram, great screen, etc.. They really deliver with the webos 2.0 (much faster, all the api's needed, voice features, update the main apps, etc...)

    Spend 100m on non-creepy advertising in the US like verizon did + another 100m worldwide. Then spend 100m on the hot apps program, and another 100 million getting stuff like/the equivalent of office, and photoshop along with other major software for webos. (some for the phone, others for the palmpad).

    Let's say they do all that, how can webos not blow big? All that will cost them 400 million. In order for web-os to be considered successful, and stay on the market it needs to sell atleast 10-20 million by the end of 2011. Which is about 1-2 billion dollars profit before operating costs (that's just phones, tablets have a much larger profit margin), meaning 0.4 billion is a great investment. They need to go all out, cause not doing it can cost them much, much more.

    That kind of spending would of never happened with the old ceo, since he was all about cutting cost. If the new guy is after innovation, and gaining market share, then he might do it. Hp can't get much more money by cutting costs, the main thing left to do is innovate, and expand.

    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    I still love picturing the press conference. Have Jon Rubinstein come on, and say "I'm here to announce a new hot apps program, but you know, I'm not the right person for the job. I want to bring out a friend of mine." Have the host from who wants to be a millionaire come up, and ask "who want's to be a ... (you guessed it) Millionaire?" Please tell me how that could not make the news.
  20. #20  
    $400 million is still a very significant capital expenditure, even for a company of HP's size. Blue chips do not tend to throw that kind of $$$ around without clear analysis showing an equally significant return on investment. I'm not saying it's not possible - it would certainly create many media mentions. But buzz doesn't sell products. Products do.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions