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  1. #21  
    Blackberries are a decent size with physical keyboards.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #22  
    Its been said for 1000s of years so I will say it too:

    Rome wasnt built in a day!

    Its gonna take a bit of time to get there so either enjoy the ride or take a different train...
  3. #23  
    it's as simple as: the longer they wait, the better it needs to be...

    They could release something 10 years from now, and it could be a hit, or they could release something tomorrow, and it could flop...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    To the OP:

    I understand, and, quite honestly, share, to some degree, your frustration, however, you are forgetting one VERY important fact - though its not your fault - its really the media's fault, actually, because, the culture of this country focuses only on "winning" and "the best", no matter what stage the race/game is in, however....

    Here it is - there are approximately 3b cell phone users in the world. Yes, 3billion. Of those 3billion users, 2.5 billion are GSM and .5 billion are CDMA. Furthermore, of those 3 billion users, only 200m - 300m are smartphone users.

    That's less than 10% of the total market! And, it has taken 4 years to get there!

    See, the smartphone market is, despite what you read and hear about market dominance (android) and "we are the most innovative company ever" (iPhone.Apple) and engrained in corporate culture (RIM), just beginning to happen... it is in its infancy, and THIS is why, no matter how you, or I, or anyone else, want to twist it, the reality is, that there is a HUGE market, not just in the North american continent, but worldwide, to sell smartphones and upgraded carrier services to, still.

    And, here is the really important aspect: despite our American culture of needing to be the best and the winner.... there is more than enough room for 4 - 5 really solid smartphone providers to service those needs and they ALL will do very, very well.

    Now, if, on the other hand, hat 3 billion worldwide market has already been 50% accommodated y now, and HP/Palm was in thier current position, then, THEN, your post and POV would have a much more relevant significance.

    Chin up... despite what ANYone says, posts or writes, any place, this game/race has not even begun yet...

    IMO, of course!
    thank you.... Sincerly.
    the market is fresh... There is a ton of opportunity.
    palm needs to release a webOS phone that is solid... And respected.
  5. #25  
    Well, certainly if HP (or someone else) hadn't stepped in, it would have been too little, too late right about now. Palm wouldn't have had the cash to make it another year, and probably no one would have bought any new hardware they might have introduced just for that reason. Palm had a plan with webOS, and whether it was the plan or the execution, it failed--they clearly did not sell enough hardware to make a profit, and that really is the definition of success (not market share or mindshare).

    But now that Palm is HP, it's a new day, and they get another lease on life. They can break into the market at any time. In fact, although it would really annoy many of us, it might even behoove them to lay low for a time. I don't know that the HTC / Motorola show can go on forever. If Palm times things correctly to hit a lull in the new smartphone craziness, they might get enough interest to sell whatever target they set for themselves.

    Keep in mind, it wasn't that long ago that Android looked like a niche that was going nowhere. It was only Google's potential muscle that made it formidable. Well, HP has some muscle as well, and it could also potentially be applied to the smartphone space. Potentially.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  6. #26  
    Goowin's law came early in this thread.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikest View Post
    To Late? Its never to late!
    Did we give up when the Germans bombed pearl harbor??!!!
    Bluto!!! MyMan.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    That's a very optimistic outlook. But:

    1. Palm almost went under, even with webOS, due to their own shortcomings. The reason they had to go the webOS route was to make themselves relevant again. They didn't exactly.

    2. HP hasn't inspired too much confidence with "we didn't buy Palm to get in the smartphone business" or something like that. Then claiming they may expand webOS into more than smartphones. That may be their true intention to begin with and there won't be too many webOS smartphones, if at all. The tablet idea is good though. But this leads to 3...

    3. Nothing seems to be materializing on HP or Palm's front, while RIM, Android and iOS continue to take over. There's only room for so many players. Even with the large worldwide market, you still need to make a name for yourself. And out of sight is out of mind. People may not buy something that seems obscure or with a doubtful future.

    I agree with the OP. They need to put up or shut up by the end of the year. WP7 will be out, another thing to contend with. Although no longer a force like the other 3, WP7 will cut into the remaining pie even more. And if they surprise people and do well, this will be another problem for webOS if they wait too long to produce something.
    This is not optimisim, its fact, whether I am a proponent of Apple, Google, RIM or HP/Palm.

    1. Im not sure what your point is, here. Whatever the reason WebOS exists today, it exists and it is, on a fairly global opinion, an incredibly rich and intuitive OS for mobile devices. And where it stands today is that it was the main focus of HP's purchase of Palm...

    2. I believe, sincerely, that the CEO's original remark was taken way out of context. If you hear it in the context of his whole talk, you will realize that he didn't mean it as it was clipped and repeated on its own after, in sound bytes. The clarifications made, thereafter by him and his other managers below him (and there wre quite a few afterwards), ALL indicate that they are deeply committed to the smartphone market, and it makes sense.. the market for the next 10 years is HUGE; HP isnt going to pass that opportunity up.... not a chance. With WebOS, they have a primed entry into that market, and if they can create, market and sell even a halfway competitive smartphone, they will stand to profit quite well from it.

    3. Nothing seems to materialize? Well, its been about 2 weeks+ since they closed the merger... you know what? I think they do deserve some time to figure out how to move ahead and make thier own interior projections of just which way is the best for them and thier products to succeed.

    As for WM7 - I expect that they will do well; this is Microsoft, and, when they want to succeed, they usually do. Having said that, MS is a smaller company than HP, if you can believe that - HP is tied for second as a tech company to the largest - IBM, in size, actually, and HP has been around MUCH longer then MS ... so, I dare say that HP actually has a track record of more steady success and a deeper and more mature comprehension of what it takes to succees as a tech company over the long term.

    IMO, of course.

    Last edited by LCGuy; 07/12/2010 at 09:19 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Well, certainly if HP (or someone else) hadn't stepped in, it would have been too little, too late right about now. Palm wouldn't have had the cash to make it another year, and probably no one would have bought any new hardware they might have introduced just for that reason. Palm had a plan with webOS, and whether it was the plan or the execution, it failed--they clearly did not sell enough hardware to make a profit, and that really is the definition of success (not market share or mindshare).

    But now that Palm is HP, it's a new day, and they get another lease on life. They can break into the market at any time. In fact, although it would really annoy many of us, it might even behoove them to lay low for a time. I don't know that the HTC / Motorola show can go on forever. If Palm times things correctly to hit a lull in the new smartphone craziness, they might get enough interest to sell whatever target they set for themselves.

    Keep in mind, it wasn't that long ago that Android looked like a niche that was going nowhere. It was only Google's potential muscle that made it formidable. Well, HP has some muscle as well, and it could also potentially be applied to the smartphone space. Potentially.
    I understand that without the HP buyout, Palm would more than likely be dead in the water. That really doesn't apply to my OP. I don't think that HPalm can break into the market at any time. There is a finite window of opportunity for them to become a recognizable OS in the smartphone market, and I think that time is here now. If you look back only 2 years ago and take a peek at the smartphones that were out there, they pale in comparison to the devices of today. The HTC Touch Pro? I owned one and thought it was top of the line at the time. POS, comparatively. Today's devices are blowing people's minds because they have improved so much so quickly, and those manufacturers/OS's are in turn imprinting themselves into the market.
    It will be difficult for Palm to separate themselves from the pack if they wait too long, because people will go by brand recognition when they come in fresh. Yes the smartphone market has a ton of room to grow. Yes Android was a niche before Google lifted them up. But this is a critical time period to get into the game. The growth of the market is going to be fueled by those who do not currently or have never owned one, and being new to the market, they will look for the names that they recognize. Android. iPhone. Blackberry. Just as someone new to buying a PC isn't asking about Ubuntu, they more than likely won't be asking about Palm or webOS unless prompted by someone or pointed towards them by a salesperson.
    Also, why can't the Motorola/HTC show go on? They are creating hardware for an open-source OS that people know about and is growing at an increasingly rapid rate. That hardware now meets the functionality and speed of many netbooks/laptops, and are slowly becoming a substitute for each. Seriously, we are looking at 1 GHz processors now like they're commonplace in phones! Making a name for oneself now really solidifies your place in the future market.
    I'm really not trying to be a pessimist here. I am very excited about the HP acquisition of Palm and the opportunities that lie ahead. I'm also 100% that we will see a new device running webOS. The problem for me is that I want webOS to succeed. Not only because it is a fantastic OS, but because it's MY OS. I really can't see myself moving to any other platform and being as happy with my experience as I am now, so I have selfish reasons for wanting webOS to live on, and to live on with fantastic hardware. My fear is that the next HPalm device is going to launch amidst a hugely competitive market, and if does so too late, and isn't successful, then HP will pull the plug on mass producing consumer devices, and I'll be left using Android Joo Joo Bee or whatever it will be called.
    I'm probably wrong, but keep this in mind: I did predict when Favre went to the Jets that he would find a way to play for the Vikings the next year. Just saying.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    This is not optimisim, its fact, whether I am a proponent of Apple, Google, RIM or HP/Palm.

    1. Im not sure what your point is, here. Whatever the reason WebOS exists today, it exists and it is, on a fairly global opinion, an incredibly rich and intuitive OS for mobile devices. And where it stands today is that it was the main focus of HP's purchase of Palm...

    2. I believe, sincerely, that the CEO's original remark was taken way out of context. If you hear it in the context of his whole talk, you will realize that he didn't mean it as it was clipped and repeated on its own after, in sound bytes. The clarifications made, thereafter by him and his other managers below him (and there wre quite a few afterwards), ALL indicate that they are deeply committed to the smartphone market, and it makes sense.. the market for the next 10 years is HUGE; HP isnt going to pass that opportunity up.... not a chance. With WebOS, they have a primed entry into that market, and if they can create, market and sell even a halfway competitive smartphone, they will stand to profit quite well from it.

    3. Nothing seems to materialize? Well, its been about 2 weeks+ since they closed the merger... you know what? I think they do deserve some time to figure out how to move ahead and make thier own interior projections of just which way is the best for them and thier products to succeed.

    As for WM7 - I expect that they will do well; this is Microsoft, and, when they want to succeed, they usually do. Having said that, MS is a smaller company than HP, if you can believe that - HP is tied for second as a tech company to the largest - IBM, in size, actually, and HP has been around MUCH longer then MS ... so, I dare say that HP actually has a track record of more steady success and a deeper and more mature comprehension of what it takes to succees as a tech company over the long term.

    IMO, of course.

    My point on no. 1 was Palm did not make webOS the known brand it should have been, through their own shortcomings. Many mainstream people still do not know what webOS is or what it can do. Palm set out to make itself a force again with webOS, they simply did not. This forced the HP buyout. Whether or not HP can really turn them around, we'll see. At first I was hopeful but other OS keep making strides, nothing yet for webOS.

    Yes, I understand the merger just went through. But there were already rumors of a webOS tablet and printer. But nothing more. In the meantime. Blackberry leaks a tablet. Whether or not it'll succeed is another matter, but where's the webOS tablet rumored? It seems to have disappeared.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #31  
    Truth is, people don't necessarily want a full unveiling of a new device - even a teaser tip along the lines of "Hey, it'll have a front facing camera" or "Hey, we're planning on releasing two devices; one with a keyboard and one without".

    I understand people calling out for some news - I don't think it's selfish or childish. People just want a little good news and something to look forward to. And I really believe Palm/HP could provide a tidbit like this without jeopardizing their projects or future plans.
  12. #32  
    I'd expect it to be too late when Android 3 phones come out and HP/palm hasn't provided any compelling alternative. Until then, even with its bugs and hardware issues, I prefer my Pre to any iOS 4 or Android 2.x phone I've ever seen. The WebOS is just so much more enjoyable to use.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jayhajj View Post
    I'd expect it to be too late when Android 3 phones come out and HP/palm hasn't provided any compelling alternative. Until then, even with its bugs and hardware issues, I prefer my Pre to any iOS 4 or Android 2.x phone I've ever seen. The WebOS is just so much more enjoyable to use.
    When I first heared about Android 3.0, the release date was in the Nov/Dec timeframe. Since Google get the Palm UI expert, the release date is now the first of the Jan/Feb 2011 timeframe.

    I'm looking forward to the GREAT new Android UI! Maybe my next phone will be a stock Android phone.
  14. #34  
    Why isn't this a poll?
  15. #35  
    I think a while back I stated in another thread that Palm/HP would benefit from waiting for the iPhone and Android craziness to die down before making any announcements about new hardware. The reason I said this was that I believe one of the reasons that Palm didn't get much mindshare originally was that they launched so soon after the iPhone 3GS was released and then waited until Droid hit the market to put it on Verizon. This time around Palm/Hp must time this announcement and release just right. Also, they should not talk about the phone unless it is about a month away from being ready for sale. Another big problem Palm had was that it took 5-6 months from the announcement at CES 2009 to get a phone on the market. Palm lost a lot of potential customers after really wowing the crowds at CES by waiting so long. I would say that Palm would need to make some kind of announcement starting next week after the Droid X has released and the press has died down and well before the announcement of the sale date of the Samsung Epic. Also, the new phone would need to match or beat the specs on these phones and hopefully the software upgrade will have some new and cool feature that is not on the other OSes. At least that my opinion.
  16. #36  
    I agree with the OP. There is a narrow window of opportunity for WebOS to get a foothold in the market. Those of you who are saying that the market is young and there is room for several players are forgetting the iPod. The MP3 market was also young and fertile. There was room for several players in that space. Then, the iPod came along and the market never was the same again.

    First, the competitors spent too much time drinking their own Kool-aid, claiming that the iPod was overpriced and under-featured. They tried to ignore the upstart and never saw their own demise sneaking up behind them. Once they realized it was a real contender, they wasted too much time not understanding why it was such a hit. They spent time and resources trying to compete with things that did not matter. Once they finally bought a clue, it was too late. The market had irreversibly changed. Suddenly, it wasn't such a small market, and it became painfully obviousl that the market would not accommodate as many players as they thought. Today, the iPod is virtually a monopoly.

    I see the same thing happening in smartphones. When the iPhone was announced, the well-established competitors scoffed at the hubris of the upstart fruit company for entering their private playground. After about a year, it became obvious that the iPhone was here to stay, and they would have to contend with it. Shortly after that, the attack of the clones began. Unfortunately, they did not understand why the iPhone was such an unprecedented success, so they were competing in areas that didn't much matter to the consumer. Now, the market is growing, but the room for competition is narrowing as consumer expectations get higher.

    BB6 is a joke. Symbian is so far behind, it can't find the end of the line. WP7 is brought to you by the same geniuses that thought the Kin was a good idea. And WebOS...? If you are counting on Palm sneaking into fifth place in a nascent market, you are not reading the same history books as I am. There was not room for VHS and Beta Max. There was not enough room for vinyl, magnetic tape, 8-track and CD. There was not enough room for DVD and those huge honking saucers who's name escapes me.

    For digital music, we have MP3 and AAC, but not OGG, FLAC, and a dozen other fringe codecs. We have MacOS and Windows. Nothing else has much of an impact on the market, although the players in that space were numerous. How many MP3/media players make a difference these days? And finally, smartphones. There is no reason to believe that multiple platforms will survive in that market either. Timing definitely matters. And the WebOS window is closing fast.
  17. #37  
    I think HPalm has six months to a year to get going again. Maybe longer. HP is in no hurry, they sell more computers than anyone else. You look at all the Tech HP has been buying, Instant on, Cloud services, and others. In January they could release a device that truely revolutionizes the industry. Imagine your HP computer, laptop, tablet and phone all sharing information without even connecting. If you have a file on your laptop, its availible on your phone. Seamless. If they can release a group of devices together, not just a phone now and a tablet later, but a group of devices that all work together as one, it doesnt matter how long it will take.
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