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  1. #61  
    "I guess Palm didn't approach them either... "

    Mikah;

    PALM hired Goldman Sachs to help them find "strategic initiatives". Investment bankers work for thier clients, and will approach and possibly connect their clients with whomever THEY feel might be a good "fit", after they do thier due dilligence, so, try not to paint a picture of PALM walking into HTC of Lenovo's offices with "hat in hand" ...

    GS is likely exploring all sorts of alternatives for PALM, including, but not limited to:

    Merger/Acquisition
    Stratigic Investment/Partnership
    Licensing of technologies, including IP
    Joint Ventures

    None of the above may happen, or one or any combination may, if the deal(s) make sense to GS first, and Palm secondly, but most importantly.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2. #62  
    No, of course....no M&A happens with the CEO of one company walking the lobby of another, where he is told he must kneel before Zod and kiss the ring of the security guard before they'll take a look at their financials.

    Nonetheless, Palm, via proxy, approached HTC (and others) and was rejected.
  3. #63  
    Mikah;

    "Nonetheless, Palm, via proxy, approached HTC (and others) and was rejected."

    Thats ONE way of putting it.

    Try this, for a spin just as baised as yours, but to the positive side:

    "HTC and others showed interest in some sort of equity based interest/alliance/partnership in PALM through PALM's investment banker, Goldman Sach's, and made offers, which PALM and GS rejected, so the parties became disinterested in further negotiations."

    Just as valid as your statement, given the information avaliable; it all depends on your personal bias.

    I personally see it in the middle.. no common ground could be found, and PALM is more than happy to stay on thier own.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 04/23/2010 at 11:08 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #64  
    HTC showed interest by DECLINING TO EVEN MAKE A BID? Assuming Reuters' info is correct, that is how they "made their offer" which Palm and GS rejected.

    Hoooo-kay. I mean, if I am biased, so is Reuters, and then we're all but calling it a conspiracy against Palm.
  5. #65  
    Mikah;

    Never, EVER believe it when any report, including Reuters, use the word "sources" instead of actual names.

    There are many, MANY reasons for that.

    Consider anonymity a worthless reference; you will more often times than not, benefit greatly.



    and, yes, you are quite biased... but, thats part of your charm, I guess...

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  6. spare's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    UPDATE 2-Lenovo emerges as leading candidate for Palm -sources | Reuters



    I guess Reuters, one of the most reputable news services on the planet, is just pulling it out their posterior, eh? It's a truth-bending conspiracy! I guess Palm didn't approach them either...
    Where's the public statement from HTC you claim? You really are taking this too seriously if you can't separate rumor from fact. But I'm starting to take this more serious then I want to. I'm out. Feel free to show everyone that public statement from HTC though.
  7. #67  
    @LCGUY

    I agree with your comments, and to me if some people take it as the company fading away ultimatly then so be it. Me personally I see it different, I see Palm still pushing through what still is hard times. The buyout has always been on the terms "depending on what is presented to Palm" it was never we need someone to buy us out. HTC was a wet dream, though since it didnt materialize most people go back to stated Palm is dead.
    Though they still are releasing phones in france, and AT&T and releasing (rumored) other devices they can either sink or swim with or without the help of another company, or a patential buyout. Either way most people try to stay on the fence, yet supporting palm, but keeping their foot out the door just in case Palm folds so that they can shout I told you so.
  8. #68  
    I didn't say they made a public statement. I said they publicly rejected them, which as of this article they have.

    But keep harping on whether it's public or "official" or whatever semantic straw you want to grasp at. It's done.
  9. #69  
    Wellwell;

    The whole investment banking/equity market industry is not what it seems, and it works very hard at how it appears to the general public to maintain that deception to the public.

    In the financial markets, never trust sources that will not be identified personally, because they have an agenda, and it isnt in the best interest of anyone but themselves.

    The Reuters article should be taken as worthless, because thier sources do not identify themselves, and, again, with PALM being a publically traded company, no one wants to increase PALM's percieved value, by adding any credibility to them... hence the ananymous comments.. no responsiblity is taken for what is said anonymously, but the effect is quite the same: negative and damaging.

    There is NO question that PALM is in a "do or die" situation over the next year; I think we can all agree on that.

    It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, but, if I had to place a bet, logic prevails with ingenuity and creativity, and they have one great opportunity to go it alone.. and that is their next devices; a hit makes all this go away in a heartbeat, and JR and Elevation know that.. they came close the first time, but fell down on the hardware; can they learn their lesson?

    That's the million dollar question!

    PS...

    Don't discount the importance of contrarian opinions like Mikah and the like.. its very important to see the other side, to keep one objective and focused on what is truly important.

    Although I may disagree with much of what he and others like him opine on, I do value their input greatly!

    Last edited by LCGuy; 04/23/2010 at 11:46 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  10. spare's Avatar
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I didn't say they made a public statement. I said they publicly rejected them, which as of this article they have.

    But keep harping on whether it's public or "official" or whatever semantic straw you want to grasp at. It's done.
    sorry i didn't remember the exact term you used.

    so, public rejections are done through sources that won't be identified?
  11. #71  
    @lcguy

    I understand completly what you state, though of course when regular people read those reports, as well as online sites like engaget, or gizmodo post them they either read and interpet what most say about whats going on with the company wrong, or have their own personally opinions to draw their own personally conclusions. i myself agree with Palm staying independent and hopefully bringing on another investor to help fund their future products. Though i also think licensing out Web OS (wether free, or at cost) will also help companies like HTC to make devices sorely for the masses, and what the masses want (which are large slab like devices). I will however take your advice and remember to look into what public announcments, like you said we should never trust sources that are not identified.
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    #72  
    the only scary part is that he said "was" working on new headsets - and not is working on new headsets...
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Mikah;

    Never, EVER believe it when any report, including Reuters, use the word "sources" instead of actual names.

    There are many, MANY reasons for that.

    Consider anonymity a worthless reference; you will more often times than not, benefit greatly.



    and, yes, you are quite biased... but, thats part of your charm, I guess...

    While "sourced" reports can be wrong, they are often the ONLY way a story is getting reported in any sort of official capacity. Used to be a journalist. Had to occasionally use "sources" for the very same reasons Reuters likely did. There're - as you say - "many, MANY" reasons why a company would want to disseminate information but cannot go on record.

    If what this source said was so egregiously inaccurate, I believe Palm would certainly issue a correction. What seems likely to me is that they have already "corrected" the story by barely getting in front of it with Ruby's comments about Palm remaining a "strong" independent hitting the public before this story did. The old "You can't fire me...I quit!" routine.

    But we're truly arguing minutae at this point. Whatever happened, it's done and that aint going to happen. More curious to see what will.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    I think you meant to say:
    "Approve not, Yoda does."
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
    Will new hardware save Palm from the position they put themselves in? IMO, these are the things that need to be addressed:

    Hardware
    Marketing
    Software
    Apps
    Public Perception
    Media Support
    Fan Perception

    Firing the old marketing team and getting new hardware is a start, but those are the easiest problems to solve. ...
    With all due respect, I think your list is properly prioritized (with #1 and #2 normally reversed, but not in the case of Palm, due to their own self-inflicted wounds). I believe your assertion that "those are the easiest problems to solve" is a bit inaccurate. A small modification (which may be "what you meant") is:
    "those are the easiest problems [for Palm, themselves] to solve"
    I'd argue that normally the "marketing" should be enough (given a product with reasonable quality/support, and a perception by resellers of an "opportunity to make money"). I really think that the lack of the perception of the "opportunity to make money" is where Palm might have been near-sighted. This "damage" to this perception was done long before the WebOS Pre (when the carriers got their "bad initial impression" of first supporting more complex devices than "ordinary phones" (with the Treos)). The Treos (and especially the Centro) were great devices, but they were a "new business" for the carriers who were used to their "old ways" of selling. Android came in as a "different player" (without the same "baggage" as Palm) and Verizon was willing to "advertise the hell out of it". This combined with the implied "learned baggage" within the company is why the Palm devices did not sell well and why they were "not pushed" in the stores. The fact that the Pre had hardware problems was the "nail in the coffin" as far as the Verizon sales force was concerned. This is why "hardware quality" took center stage as the scapegoat as to why not to sell the Palm devices. Short of the "self inflicted" wounds (of bad build, and less than optimal design of the slider and the USB port), marketing would normally have been able to "trump" those problems. This is just an issue of Palm not properly "reading" their "wholesale" customers. The real question (in my mind) is whether Palm has learned from those mistakes. I believe they have, but I'm not sure they have enough clout to "repair the damage" in their wholesale and retail customers' perceptions. A rock-solid hardware device could change all of that in a heartbeat.

    After/if the hardware and marketing obstacles are overcome, you are correct that "Software/Apps" is next on the list, but to call this as an "even bigger obstacle" (my paraphrase) would not be accurate. The "software" side of this is WebOS and I think they have a running start over anyone else here. The key is that the PDK needs to be used (by software vendors) to create some *really compelling* apps. I suspect we'll see an open source (PDK or similar) version of Open Office on the Pre within 6 months or less. That alone will do more for the "app" side than any other story (and no competing smartphone even has a plank in their "roadmap" to deal with this). Palm has a broken leg and a sore ankle, so it might just take the open source community to "save them" one more time. I believe Palm has been doing the necessary steps to facilitate good software development, so I'd say your "this is even a bigger hurdle" attitude (again, my paraphrase) is not accurate of their next challenges that lie ahead. (I did find your analysis interesting. I just wanted to add my reaction to what you said.)

    --
    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  16. spare's Avatar
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    #76  
    The reports on these Palm rumors are more like tabloid journalism. They jump to conclusions and are opinionated. Just report the complete facts. Let your reader make up their own mind. That's the best journalism. Opinion and rumor articles do not have any credibility.

    Here's the latest from an anonymous industry source.
    http://www.precentral.net/crazy-palm...cutive-shakeup

    TechCrunch: Industry sources tell us that a major restructuring and management shakeup is imminent and CEO Jon Rubinstein may be replaced.

    Ruby: I'm still here. LOL!
  17. #77  
    its been a month and 1/2 and no new news... I'm troubled
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by louis6279 View Post
    its been a month and 1/2 and no new news... I'm troubled
    Nothing can be said until the merger is complete... Hang in there.
  19. #79  
    Palm needs to release some new ASAP. There are a ton of great new handsets showing up on the market right now and it would be good to know that Palm will be joining them shortly. With the iPhone 4 release market standards have pretty much been drawn by Apple and HTC.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    The reports on these Palm rumors are more like tabloid journalism. They jump to conclusions and are opinionated. Just report the complete facts. Let your reader make up their own mind. That's the best journalism. Opinion and rumor articles do not have any credibility.

    Here's the latest from an anonymous industry source.
    http://www.precentral.net/crazy-palm...cutive-shakeup

    TechCrunch: Industry sources tell us that a major restructuring and management shakeup is imminent and CEO Jon Rubinstein may be replaced.

    Ruby: I'm still here. LOL!
    Don't believe this nonsense. HP has been doing a massive restructuring to undo the way Carly Fiorina ran things (poorly). This has been called "de-carly-ization" of HP. Ruby isn't going anywhere, and HP's restructuring is focused on multi-multi-$billion product categories. Palm should have plenty of time before HP has time to look for ways to re-organize Palm. There are a bunch of former Palm execs at HP, and it is in their best interest to help Ruby succeed... they don't want to go down in history as having screwed up Palm twice...

    Other than speeding things up, Palms product and development plans for the next 12-18 months are already being executed. Other than throwing money at Palm, you won't see any major HP influence until the beginning of next year (or at least the beginning of HP's fiscal year)... IMHO
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