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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    And how do you actually know this? The CEO seems to be stating that Verizon is moving phones now, regardless of how. That means the user base is likely growing, not shrinking.
    Well, if we're going by this quote:

    "On Thursday, he said the efforts are bearing fruit, and that Verizon has helped by changing its advertising campaign and lowering prices."

    I don't know how I can take that seriously. It's just Ruby being Ruby -- making vague claims without quantifying anything until it comes time to report to company's shareholders.

    And you sound like a Palm hater by the way you make many of your comments. Just saying.
    That's probably just me trying to distract myself from remembering I'm riding a contract with Bell until 2012 without a HUP.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I'm not a Palm hater. I use a Pre. But I'm not going to pretend Palm isn't rapidly losing customer, carrier, and developer support at a shocking pace.
    Please, facts. Accurate facts. How many customers are they losing? How many developers? How many carriers? If you can't tell us, then you're pulling information outta your backside.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    ...
    I don't know how I can take that seriously. It's just Ruby being Ruby -- making vague claims without quantifying anything until it comes time to report to company's shareholders.
    Since you require quantification to justify statements, see my previous question, and plase DO enlighten us all. How many customers, developers, and carriers are they losing? Don't need to be exact, round numbers will do.
  4. #24  
    Okay.

    From October 2009 to January 2010, Palm's marketshare dropped from 7.8% to 5.7% (comScore Reports January 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc). From January to February, Palm loses another .3% dropping them down to 5.4% (comScore Reports February 2010 U.S. Mobile Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc).

    These are customers that aren't buying Palm products.

    Developers dropping support probably wasn't the best way to put it (although, with today's Dataviz revelation, it wasn't entirely inaccurate either). A better way of putting it is leading mobile developers are not developing for Palm's platform. WebOS doesn't have Skype. It doesn't have TomTom. It doesn't have Shazam. It doesn't have Kindle. And even with the heralded PDK, developers just aren't porting these applications to WebOS.

    As for losing carrier support, look at the way Bell and Verizon are trying to clear out their unsold inventory by offering the phones for free on contract or as part of a BOGO deal. Read all the reports on here from people who aren't able to get replacements for their Sprint Pres and Pixis. Does any of that give you the impression that the carriers Palm is on believe in their products?
  5. #25  
    3 months after the blackberry storm was released it was BOGO... and that phone had a 60% return rate.. so that helped bump up the sales report numbers for RIM. That phone was such a mess that in 6 months they announced the storm2!! 6 months!!
    Last edited by antonio3; 04/23/2010 at 07:48 AM.
  6. bdog421's Avatar
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    #26  
    Losing carrier support? Nothing has been officially said about carriers dropping palm. Just the original pre looks to be getting fazed out, still nothing official tho. As for deals and promos, that's normal stuff, could be in preparation for something new and they don't want an over stock of last gen hardware when that new device drops.

    Your point is plausible as well, I just hope everyone does not share you fears or hopes(not sure if you want palm gone or what).
  7. #27  
    Carriers care about ONE thing, and one thing only:

    Subscriber revenue.

    And if they can sell you a phone, ANY phone, at a discounted price, so you will commit to thier fees for the next year or two with a contract, they become literally "giddy" because thier revenue is now completely predictable.. and that helps thier share price in the market (which is what this is ALL about).

    Carriers aren't loyal to phones. Period. They care about the bottom line.

    Verizon committed to sell quite a few Pre+'s and promised to appropriaely market them, and that campaign FAILED.

    This has backfired on PALM, because, as a result of VERIZON's failed advertising attempts (mommy-phone, etc..), their inventory didnt move (and are sitting in Verizon's warehouses) and they arent ordering more phones from PALM, which the market didn't anticipate.

    Everyone keeps blaming PALM for this, and, no matter how you twist this, the ONLY blame PALM should take on is that they trusted Verizon to do as they promised, based on thier EXCLUSUVE agreement for the "+" versions of the Pre and Pixie, so PALM cant market or sell other "+" versions anywhere else in Verizon's market until that exlusivity period is over, and have to endure this failed attempt by Verizon, and suffer from it. $0 sales for the Q.

    So, the market punishes PALM because Verizon won't order more phones due to THEIR failed poor sales from thier meager marketting efforts, and PALM makes less for Q2, something the analysts didnt forsee, and the stock price consequently plummets, fueling "PALM's imminant failure, and the doom and gloom starts up in full force.

    They look for a scapegoat, and find a ligitimate one: Pre's known hardware issues.

    The rest is history.

    The truth is this: these phones, in these times, will be replaced with new and improved hardware within a years' time anyway, even if they were built rock solid. The smartphone technological innovative process is in high ear and now seems to run in 3-4 month cycles.

    Looking ahead:

    AT&T launch, Euproean launch, and the C40 devices coming.

    JR is telling everyone in the most direct way he can: they are focused on what is about to happen, and not on what is in the past and that they cannot control.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 04/24/2010 at 06:25 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Verizon bought auite a few Pre+'s and promised to advertise to sell them, and that campaign FAILED.

    This has backfired on PALM, because, As a result of VERIZON's failed advertising attempts (mommy-phone, etc..), their inventory didnt move and the arent ordering more phones from PALM, which the market didn't anticipate.

    Everyone keeps blaming PALM for this, and, no matter how you twist this, the OLNY blam PALM should take on is that they trusted Verizon to do as they promised...
    Ridiculous. Verizon advertised prominently for the Pre with a Valentine's Day-themed "Mom" campaign. Oh, that sucked? Yes, it did, but the reason it was so ineffective is that Palm had 12 months prior since the announcement of WebOS to define and promote WebOS themselves, and it is THEY who failed. Not Verizon. Not Sprint.

    By contrast, Motorola, Google, and Verizon worked together to create a unified and effective message for the Droid, and it paid off handsomely for all three companies. Who did Palm coordinate with? Pre ads are dramatically different on every carrier, and Pixi ads are nothing like Pre ads. Now there are new general WebOS ads, and they are nothing like what came before either.

    Long story short, the buck starts and stops with Palm. If you leave it to carriers to define your product however they choose, then you should be prepared to accept a jumbled mess of ineffective ads. That's your fault for not taking ownership of it.

    But C40 is coming. At&T launch is coming. Better training is coming. Ok, Jon. Let's see something real.
  9. #29  
    Nappy, what I can tell you is what I am knowledgeable of. First, when I bought my Pre Plus a couple weeks ago, the sales person who handled the purchase of my phone and my wife's directly told me that the new sales promotion had boosted sales of the device. He basically said the a lot of people were coming in and picking them up.

    Further, we've seen a rather large number of new Verizon users pop up here since the sales started. It certainly doesn't hurt that the mobile hot spot is now free with the phone. Then the CEO basically comes out and directly states that the new promotions and training have had an impact.

    As far as market share, that does not indicate a loss of customers. The smart phone market is growing very fast. Palm, unfortunately, is not picking up new customers as fast as Android, iPhone, and BB. So they lost marketshare, but could have easily added 10-20% more WebOS users. The reason people get concerned with marketshare is because it can indicate a negative trend to who's hot and who's not in this market. It really doesn't indicate whether or not a company is successful. They can be growing revenues and sales but still lose marketshare.

    I have a feeling that WebOS usage will hit 2.5 to 3 million users after the SFR/O2/AT&T launches are about 2-3 months in. If AT&T can really push the phone hard and get numbers more closely resembling Sprint's first month, or better, that number could be higher. Once Palm reaches a certain level, they'll be able to launch on far more carriers when their new phones hit, allowing them more likely hit critical mass. I have a feeling that an upcoming flood of PDK apps will give them an even bigger boost.
  10. #30  
    Mikah;

    "But C40 is coming. At&T launch is coming. Better training is coming. Ok, Jon. Let's see something real. "

    This whole thing has put PALM and JR in the hot seat, no question. They do have to deliver on thier next device(s), and that isn't refutable. Being a publically traded company has its benefits, but, the down side is that perception of your progress and achievements are more emotionally driven than anything else, by market forces, and that determines your financial fate.

    PALM is an underdog now, more than ever, and it defintely is time for them to pony up with some solid progress.

    I, for one, believe it is possible for them to do it.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 04/24/2010 at 06:18 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by netwrkr9 View Post
    Man, threads like these bring out all of the Palm haters, they come crawling out of the woodwork like cockroaches.
    Well looks like "Palm's Law of Insult" is still on the books and spreading.

    "Palm's Law of Insult" is essentially this:

    "If a thread discussion includes a post which is critical of Palm the Company, its devices, employees, and/or operating system , the probability of a personal attack including outright name calling by Palm Defense Force increases and approaches 1."

    The legislative history of this act goes back to Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
  12. dave75's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by eekinsman View Post
    Well looks like "Palm's Law of Insult" is still on the books and spreading.

    "Palm's Law of Insult" is essentially this:

    "If a thread discussion includes a post which is critical of Palm the Company, its devices, employees, and/or operating system , the probability of a personal attack including outright name calling by Palm Defense Force increases and approaches 1."

    The legislative history of this act goes back to Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It's a symbiotic relationship. The haters and the defenders can not survive without each other.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    It's a symbiotic relationship. The haters and the defenders can not survive without each other.
    "symbiotic" ....nice. Conjures up some Star Wars

    Obi-Wan: "You and the Naboo form a symbiotic circle. What happens to one of you will affect the other. You must understand this." -Episode I
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
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