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  1. #1181  
    Ive posted this before, regarding large screens - don't knock them until you have tried them, even if you have "small hands".

    For phones under 3.8" diagnol screens, keyboards will likely be more than manditory for serious text and business users - no matter how good an onscreen keyboard is, it just can't provide enough usability for most people with heavy use, due to its limited size, ESPECIALLY in portrait mode... ugh. Casual users may not feel the same way, but, heavy users... not from what Ive seen, personally.

    Larger screens provide the real estate needed for a usable keyboard in portrait mode... I have tried the HD2 screen (its 4.3" diagnol), and its incredibly usable in portrait mode.. and that eliminates the need for a physical keyboard. Not to mention the larger real estate to work with, overall.

    Most people's initial reaction is "too big".. until they try it and use it... and then, they are hooked - happens all the time, now.

    Its my firm opinion that the next WebOS device will follow the rules above: 3.8" sscreen or under, physical Qwerty keyboard.. large screen than 3.8" - virtual keyboard.

    IMO, of course.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2. wprater's Avatar
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    #1182  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Ive posted this before, regarding large screens - don't knock them until you have tried them, even if you have "small hands".

    For phones under 3.8" diagnol screens, keyboards will likely be more than manditory for serious text and business users - no matter how good an onscreen keyboard is, it just can't provide enough usability for most people with heavy use, due to its limited size, ESPECIALLY in portrait mode... ugh. Casual users may not feel the same way, but, heavy users... not from what Ive seen, personally.

    Larger screens provide the real estate needed for a usable keyboard in portrait mode... I have tried the HD2 screen (its 4.3" diagnol), and its incredibly usable in portrait mode.. and that eliminates the need for a physical keyboard. Not to mention the larger real estate to work with, overall.

    Most people's initial reaction is "too big".. until they try it and use it... and then, they are hooked - happens all the time, now.

    Its my firm opinion that the next WebOS device will follow the rules above: 3.8" sscreen or under, physical Qwerty keyboard.. large screen than 3.8" - virtual keyboard.

    IMO, of course.
    You can have a very usable virtual keyboard on a 3.5" screen. The iPhone did it over 2 years ago. Its about the tech. in the virtual keyboard, and determining which key you meant to press and increasing the overall area of the virtual keys based on your previous input.

    I don't mind the Pre's hardware keyboard, but would prefer a virtual only model. And please, for the love of humanity, do not release a landscape slider!

  3. #1183  
    Quote Originally Posted by wprater View Post
    You can have a very usable virtual keyboard on a 3.5" screen. The iPhone did it over 2 years ago. Its about the tech. in the virtual keyboard, and determining which key you meant to press and increasing the overall area of the virtual keys based on your previous input.

    I don't mind the Pre's hardware keyboard, but would prefer a virtual only model. And please, for the love of humanity, do not release a landscape slider!

    wprater;

    My theory is that some will find the virtual keyboard on smaller devices usable, but less and less will, over time, once they see the usability on a larger screen size. It will be, IMO, a matter of consumer evolution, which is what my post above is about.

    And, landscape sliders are great, but, could be a design implementation issue for WebOS, due to the gestures area, which is a key aspect of it.

    I actually designed and modelled a 3D model, and rendered it a few months back for kicks, here (if you look on page 3 of the thread, you will see a more finished version):

    http://forums.precentral.net/future-...ml#post2403423

    Last edited by LCGuy; 07/07/2010 at 01:21 PM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #1184  
    This is my scenario:
    1. I'm out of contract with AT&T
    2. I want a webOS phone over the other two
    3. I don't want to buy a Pre considering a new one is probably coming soon

    So I'm waiting anxiously to see what comes out and where it ends up. If they don't offer a new phone on all carriers at once I do hope that they at least release on Sprint first due to the shared family data plan. I really wish the other two would offer something that competed with Sprint's plans but they are apparently quite content nickel and diming people.
  5. #1185  
    I'd just like to add - if it hasn't been said already - that while gestures are a huge part of WebOS devices, the gesture area itself is a fairly large waste of a very limited amount of space. The Pre's screen feels a bit cramped (and the Pixi's even more so), even when compared to older Android phones or the iPhone, but if the gesture area had been reclaimed for screen space, the screen would have been almost exactly the same size.

    The "gesture area" gestures could easily be carried out by a two-finger swipe anywhere on the touchscreen instead, and this is definitely the direction I would like to see WebOS devices move. Since multitouch has already been used throughout WebOS without challenge, and considering the massive amounts of mobile device patents on each side, I doubt Apple would want to start a fight about the use of two-finger gestures in a mobile OS they don't even see as a competitor (yet).

    --Brandon
  6. #1186  
    How do you do two finger swipes with one hand?

    90% of the time I use my pre with one hand. If we had to use two fingers I couldn't use it.
  7. #1187  
    one handed gestures is what make webos amazing! Why do we need another thin framed bezel phone? Besides that would be impossible or not productive to implement considering several apps already utilize the two finger gestures. Can you imahine pinching and zooming and instead getting the app lancer? Eek! The gesture area is a nice innovation I hope is carried to all webos devices. Makes one handed working so easy!
  8. #1188  
    Geeze, this has become a zoo of all topics. In the words of Nicholas Cage, "What do you say we cut the CHITCHAT, A-HOLE!?!?" Please guys, stay on topic, getting real fed up with having to read about what people want and how to do gestures and when the next webos update will be, etc. This is ABOUT THE C40 and it only. Please keep it to that news to avoid irritating those of us that actually only want to hear news about it!
    Thanks!
  9. #1189  
    It's about the next Palm phone in general, not the C40 only. Aside from the point that the C40 was probably canceled long ago and thus will never exist outside of a prototype (if it existed in that format), there is the fact that part of the C40 will include new WebOS features, some of which people actually want.

    If you don't like the way that the thread is going -- and you don't appear to be the thread creator or a mod -- you can always just not participate in it.
  10. #1190  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmid7y View Post
    Highly doubt it. The Pixi was the same generation as the pre. Not that it really makes a difference, but it was a smaller release to fill a gap in the smartphone market. This is a whole new device, with a whole new company. And if they did get word, I am sure there would be a leak by now. And think about it, if they go 960x640, devs will not need to update the apps asap, the OS will just use 4 pixels instead of 1, or that is what would be expected. I suspect this to be a huge launch. I mean we will get NO leaks. They want to wow us, not bore us like the iPhone did. Here is my opinions of what is going to happen:

    August 1: Pre2 announcement.

    Specs:
    3.4in screen, 960x640 LCD screen (Pixel Qi?)
    1500 mAh battery
    Tegra 2 processor
    1GB RAM
    webOS 1.5
    Portrait slider, improved build quality and keyboard
    8mp camera
    VGA front camera

    Ships late September for Holiday season.

    *crosses fingers*
    Hi,

    That sounds great, I'll take one of those, (LOL),

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  11. #1191  
    Gesture area MUST be there in the next generation devices. Gesture Area is what makes Palm phones different from the competition, something everyone crave.
  12. #1192  
    The gesture area isn't wasted space since that's where buttons are usually on other touchscreen phones. They all have that space.
    Palm Vx -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Centro -> Pre (Launch Phone 06/06/09) -> AT&T Pre Plus with Sprint EVDO swap -> Samsung Epic 4G w/ Froyo
  13. #1193  
    what about the "pink" pixi?
  14. nicekyo's Avatar
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    #1194  
    I have been reading a lot of buzz around HP's keynote during Venturebeat's mobile conference next week. In my opinion, I doubt there will be any leak or announcement. Why do so at a sleeper event when there are events like CES or holiday lineup announcements around September?

    Why not tweak/upgrade the C40 (castle, HPALM, 4 in, what ever you want to call it), secure their favorite contract manufacturers in Asia, and make a big splash at CES as the comeback kid?!

    By that time, most iphone fan boys would be tired of the iphone, or jumping ship to verzion's iphone or the Motorola's 2Ghz beast. It will be lot more interesting by then. If Hpalm releases a phone now, unless it has done enough R&D, it might end up being a mediocre phone at best, which is not what they want for their public perception.
  15. krische's Avatar
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    #1195  
    They won't wait until CES, that isn't until January 2011.

    I'm sure they have something to be released before the end of the year. HP seems serious with buying Palm, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have a tablet ready for the holiday season. And Palm is probably near ready with a smartphone to be released before then.
  16. #1196  
    Quote Originally Posted by nicekyo View Post
    I have been reading a lot of buzz around HP's keynote during Venturebeat's mobile conference next week. In my opinion, I doubt there will be any leak or announcement...
    I agree with you on a few things, but think about it, all the sprint users are using an over 1yr old phone. That may not seem like a lot, but for the preimere customers, the Evo and Epic looks better and better everyday. HP should let palm stick to their roadmap, since they alread put time, money and effort into it. HP can make the necessary tweaks, but for the most part, I believe the C40 is done and ready to be released. HP really needs to focus on 3 things now for webOS: marketing, netbooks, and printers. The palm ads are terrible, and HP has enough money to afford some better ones. Lets be real here, if a netbook had a capacitive touch screen and 10+ of battery life, I would be sold. And lastly, the HP printers have the worst drivers and OS I have ever used. If they can really make these printers work with webOS, that could be a victory for them behind the scenes. Let palm handle the next phone and tablet launch.
  17. krische's Avatar
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    #1197  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmid7y View Post
    HP really needs to focus on 3 things now for webOS: marketing, netbooks, and printers.
    Couldn't agree more. Verizon basically made Android what it is today with their massive 'Droid' advertising campaign for its launch last fall. Now everyone and their mother have at least heard of Android, even if they don't know all that much about it.

    HP needs to do the same thing with WebOS. They just spent $1.2 billion buying Palm; an extra few million for an advertising campaign would just be a drop in the bucket.
  18. #1198  
    Quote Originally Posted by krische View Post
    HP needs to do the same thing with WebOS. They just spent $1.2 billion buying Palm; an extra few million for an advertising campaign would just be a drop in the bucket.
    Gonna be more than a few million, but the idea is sound. Verizon's advertisement hit the spot and allowed Android to boom. HP needs to market the phone and do it right. Viral and hype are the best methods nowadays.


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  19. nicekyo's Avatar
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    #1199  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmid7y View Post
    I agree with you on a few things, but think about it, all the sprint users are using an over 1yr old phone. That may not seem like a lot, but for the preimere customers, the Evo and Epic looks better and better everyday. HP should let palm stick to their roadmap, since they alread put time, money and effort into it. HP can make the necessary tweaks, but for the most part, I believe the C40 is done and ready to be released. HP really needs to focus on 3 things now for webOS: marketing, netbooks, and printers. The palm ads are terrible, and HP has enough money to afford some better ones. Lets be real here, if a netbook had a capacitive touch screen and 10+ of battery life, I would be sold. And lastly, the HP printers have the worst drivers and OS I have ever used. If they can really make these printers work with webOS, that could be a victory for them behind the scenes. Let palm handle the next phone and tablet launch.
    I know the feeling, I have been a day 1 pre user myself. After 5 exchanges, I am happy with it. You are right, evo/epic is looking tempting...

    I guess my main reservation is that HP will over hype a product, and end up under delivering. As for us sprint users, I don't envision HP will ever have an exclusivity agreement. The next phone will most likely launch on multiple carriers, maybe Verizon first (for business users), than ATT (more business users), than Sprint, and maybe tmobile. Sprint will get it, just not the first one to get it.
  20. #1200  
    I think Verizon 1st is a bad move. I think Verizon has so much into there Droid products that webos will be put on the back burner. HP needs to make Verizon custemers want it 1st like the Iphone. Even though AT&T has the Iphone I think HP Palm will sand a better chance starting out on AT&T or Sprint. Maybe I'm wrong but just my opinion.

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