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  1. #201  
    Even in Rubinstein's rosiest estimate, he thought there was room for five OS players in the mobile space.

    So the question goes to any would be suitor of Palm, even those with very deep pockets: If you are in this with WebOS for the long haul, which company do you plan to out-maneuver and outspend to leapfrog with WebOS?

    RIM? Doubtful. Even in their current stagnant state, they remain in the upper echelon and will due to enterprise alone for far beyond the next several generations of devices.
    Apple? Impossible.
    Android? Improbable given their current momentum.
    Windows Phone 7? Possible, but given the amount of money it would take to ether them, it'd be a pyrrhic victory
    Symbian? In America, sure. Good luck with the entirety of the rest of the world.

    I'm curious as to which company is ready to commit billions upon billions to possibly scrape out a 4th or 5th place finish at best.
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Because the hardware business is worthless. The current hardware design is sure to be trashed.
    That was my point. If HTC were to buy Palm, they're not scraping webOS. It's been said here many times for many months, webOS on HTC would be a great mix.
  3. #203  
    Funny... Palm's hiring investors to give them options. I think every option has already been explored in these forums - all they need to do is load up the Precentral forum and not pay anyone else.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    For those saying a purchase would be for Palm's patent portfolio...

    How old are those patents? All patents do expire eventually, so it seems a fair number of those may be aging rapidly and therefore losing value.

    What is the average age of a Palm patent?
    And what _are_ these patents? People always allude to Palm's valuable patent portfolio as something other platform developers infringe on without mentioning anything specific. If this were the case, wouldn't Palm have been acquired months ago?
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    And what _are_ these patents? People always allude to Palm's valuable patent portfolio as something other platform developers infringe on without mentioning anything specific. If this were the case, wouldn't Palm have been acquired months ago?
    Check out the second half of this article for just a small sampling:

    Apple vs. Palm: the in-depth analysis -- Engadget
  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    And what _are_ these patents? People always allude to Palm's valuable patent portfolio as something other platform developers infringe on without mentioning anything specific. If this were the case, wouldn't Palm have been acquired months ago?
    Some examples I know of:
    • Phone + PDA in one device (eg smartphone) is Patented by palm. All smartphone makers pay palm royalties
    • Ambient Light sensor
    • Dial pad layout
    • Silence Phone Switch


    I believe they have something like 12000 patents. I am not positive about this number, but it is what I remember reading.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    Some examples I know of:
    • Phone + PDA in one device (eg smartphone) is Patented by palm. All smartphone makers pay palm royalties
    • Ambient Light sensor
    • Dial pad layout
    • Silence Phone Switch


    I believe they have something like 12000 patents. I am not positive about this number, but it is what I remember reading.
    Thanks. Now it really makes me wonder why Palm hasn't been snatched up sooner when the first patent you mentioned alone gives the owner so much leverage.
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    #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Thanks. Now it really makes me wonder why Palm hasn't been snatched up sooner when the first patent you mentioned alone gives the owner so much leverage.
    When was it patented? If it expires in a week then its value is next to nil.
  9. #209  
    Well Palm, didn't want to be sold, and elevation partners owned a lot of the stock. It makes it hard to acquire them. However, now that Palm is looking for a suitor, it really gives them a lot of leverage. Whoever gets Palm will more or less be able to tell Apple to ****** off, which is why HTC might be really interested in Palm. What is also interesting is because Palm has this patent cache, they might be able to leverage future WebOS support from the buying company.

    So all in all, I really think Palm is positioning themselves well. Likely they will stall out for a few months, so I am not sure Palm will have any new hardware this year (unless they were secretly working behind the scenes with the company that finally buys them). However, it will give them a lot of time to clean up WebOS and really make it shine. I hope that a hardware company buys Palm, like HTC, so that Palm can make the software amazing and have the hardware company make the hardware amazing.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    When was it patented? If it expires in a week then its value is next to nil.
    I want to say sometime around 2000, which means it still have several years on its life.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
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    #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    I want to say sometime around 2000, which means it still have several years on its life.
    I think that would give it ~5 years. However, I believe the patent length may be from time of invention. I could also be wrong that the current length of a patent is 15 years. I don't typically keep up with patent law that in-depth.
  12. #212  
    I am so depressed right now...say it ain't so Palm :-(
  13. #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    I think that would give it ~5 years. However, I believe the patent length may be from time of invention. I could also be wrong that the current length of a patent is 15 years. I don't typically keep up with patent law that in-depth.
    Filed in 2005, it is going to be around for a long time.

    United States Patent: 7555727

    Also, this was on Precentral: http://www.precentral.net/market-und...atent-holdings
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
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    #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    Filed in 2005, it is going to be around for a long time.

    United States Patent: 7555727

    Also, this was on Precentral: http://www.precentral.net/market-und...atent-holdings
    WikiAnswers - For how long is a patent good

    If this is correct, the answer is 20 years from filing, but there may be other factors that affect the length of time.
  15. #215  
    yea, so about 15 more years, or about 7 eons in tech time.

    I would love to see HTC buy Palm, enforce that Patent and make Apple pay them royalties on all iPhones sold.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  16. #216  
    Patents have a life span of 17 years from the date of its granting:

    2701 Patent Term [R-2] - 2700 Patent Terms and Extensions

    PALM has 1,650 patents.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by cyorke View Post
    People seem to forget that almost all of the phone manufacturers have their own OS and ten also manufacture phones with other OS' line WinMo, Android etc. Samsung just released or will release Bada, they still produce WinMo and Android phones. What is toe keep HTC from doing the same. They do have their own OS but it is very early in its life. What is to say HTC or any other company can't do the same. WebOS becomes HTC's propietary OS and they continue to produce Android and WM phones.
    HTC is using the wrong business model to purchase Palm for the purpose of owning webOS. Right now, they're in the business of pumping out dozens of models of mobile devices using a variety of operating systems. If they purchase webOS (Palm), they not only wouldn't want to produce phones using a competing OS anymore, but OEMs also wouldn't be interested in hiring HTC to build non-webOS phones any more.

    HTC would have to shift from their current business model of high-volume smartphone manufacturer to a new model: Ecosystem creator, supporter, evangelist. That's a lot of change for a successful company to undergo just to purchase a failing company.

    Now if HTC purchases Palm for the good bits (the "3 Ps:" pension fund, patents, key people) and discards the rest, it might be a good deal for them.
  18. #218  
    I am not sure about that. I agree that the 3 "P's" you mentioned are a definite reason to get Palm, but HTC makes lots of android and winmo phones and I don't see that changing. If they add one more phone (WebOS) based, I don't think people will have a big problem hiring them. But this assumes that HTC leaves Palm alone and allows Palm to continue to develop WebOS while HTC continues to focus on hardware.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  19. #219  
    and CHUQ is saying on the webosdev forums, that all it is, is a RUMOR 8)
  20. #220  
    Kupe;

    I understand your implications, but, you are missing a very important characteristic of business practice today: growth.

    HTC, as a hardare manufacturer, is a slave to those who choose them to make thier phones. That is a business that, like all other manufacturing businesses, will eventually experience "commoditization", and, that, spells lower earnings for the same work.

    Becoming a smartphone creator with the OS inside of it allows exponential growth.. why?

    Look at Apple for your answer: 160,000 apps, thats why!

    Apple gets a small piece of every sale made.

    If HTC buys Palm, and just merely redesigns the hardware to have a hot-looking metal casing, with more RAM, more storage and a 1Ghz processor, they could be out in the market with hardware within a few months of completed buyout and with that superior, unique hardware, the resulting intense increase in sales would drive developers to WebOS.

    PALM dropped the ball, hardware-wise. They only knew software well, and Pre sales reflected that. HTC could, at the very minimum, fix that and become exraordianrily successful.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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