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  1.    #1  
    As usual, an excellent piece from Ars Technica on exactly how and why the Pre failed.

    This paragraph probably sums up the whole saga as perfectly as possible:

    It turns out that the webOS user experience for cloud-based contacts, messaging, calendaring, and alerts is indeed superior, but that superiority isn't compelling enough on its own to make the case for either adopting the Pre or for sticking with it in the face of its anemic app selection.
    RIP Palm: it's over, and here's why
  2. #2  
    Not bad..........at least the guy was subjective. More or less. I've done product reviews for quite some time now, on a couple of respected sites, and it's pretty well known us reviewers get pre-production stuff, we're the guinea pigs. Most of the time its fine product, nothing at all wrong with it, but I, and everybody in my reviewer loop, might have a small complaint, like a useful, but flimsy, piece of hardware on a case. Other times.............bomb. One particular PSU blew up on me repeatedly, after four exchanges with the company. Give them credit, they kept sending me new ones in case I'd gotten a bad run or something, but still. I gather from reading that, he had a similar experience with the Pre. Personally, you can add me to that apparently small group of folks that got good hardware.

    I still can't quite grasp the app store issue. Everybody compares the Palm store to Apple. There's a nearly three year headstart on Apple's part, and they didn't even HAVE a store for the first year. Given the Apple fan base, and an easily worked with OS (it IS OSX after all..........just stripped and tweaked) 500 to 15,000 apps in the same time as Palm's app store has been active isn't all that impressive. Every article I've read completely glosses over that fact. Rather than compare Apple to Palm within the 9 month period from store launch, every dang writer compares Palm at 9 months to Apple at three years. That's way too skewed. Makes Palm's store look bad, by posting an artificial comparison.

    I guess I just look at it differently. He points out that people see a bubble wrap app as a sign that there's something good in the store for them, too (hint.......a 100 foot roll of real bubble wrap is cheap......and much more fun), I see it as an indicator that there's not a whole lot of substance in that store.....if that's the most popular app, what hope do I have of a developer actually coming out with a productive, worth-paying-for diabetes management app?

    Oh well. This article I can agree with, and its really the first that hasn't actively trashed Palm.
    Last edited by fussnfeathers; 03/22/2010 at 06:18 AM.
  3. #3  
    He's definitely right about the syncing issue, I showed the pre to long-time palm users and they agreed it is a nice device, BUT since the autarkic syncing with their own computer is no longer available it hast lost parts of its PALM-identity.
    Moving to stuff like google- or facebook calendar seemed unsafe, unreliable and of course an unlogic effort to them.

    and yeah, I'd love a bigger screen and perhaps a landscape keyboard.

    though, I am fond of the prprpré$s$ $keyboard$ $more$ $and$ $more$ $each$ $day$ $I$ $use$ $it$ $for$ $mails$ $etc$.
  4. #4  
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  5. #5  
    The Pre hasn't taken off YET because of poor marketing, both by Palm and especially by Sprint and Verizon. You are pushin sh** up-hill when your chosen carrier (especially Verizon) actively pushes other phones over the Pre. Palm needs to get some effective advertising out there so that the public gets the message of how great this phone is.

    All of the negativity is becoming a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though.
  6. #6  
    It is really sad to read such articles, especially when they are right. I just hope Palm survives but it doesn't look good. Palm needs to understand that the hardware is just not good enough. They need something better...HTC should provide it
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    The Pre hasn't taken off YET because of poor marketing, both by Palm and especially by Sprint and Verizon. You are pushin sh** up-hill when your chosen carrier (especially Verizon) actively pushes other phones over the Pre. Palm needs to get some effective advertising out there so that the public gets the message of how great this phone is.

    All of the negativity is becoming a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though.
    The marketing should have been done a year ago. Nexus One to Verizon and Sprint. HTC Supersonic to Sprint. There will be no taking off for Palm, unfortunately, it is over.
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    #8  
    The only thing I agreed with was the statement regarding hardware. I think he was way off mark with everything else. The only reason I take my Nexus One with me is the solid feeling hardware, otherwise I'm finding my Pre is running circles around that phone when it comes to actually getting things done. I've used the mirror to take pictures of me or pictures of me and my girlfriend, I have a hard time orienting the cameras of other phones without a mirror. I also can't believe people are still crying about apps. My Pre has the exact same apps as my Ipod touch and my Nexus. The only exception being Docs2Go. And he conveniently left out our ability to use Preware and App Scoop and how that factors into user experience. It made a huge difference for me in the beginning. Does he even own a Pre? For me, it boils down to two things Hardware and Marketing period.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    ...when your chosen carrier (especially Verizon) actively pushes other phones over the Pre. ...
    Palm fails miserably with their tardiness in offering a up-to-date product. a "every 2-3 months" update is not enough while their only (at least in europe) product lacks of different important aspects

    we don't even have an app catalog worth that designation yet!
  10. cgk
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by qst4 View Post
    The only thing I agreed with was the statement regarding hardware. I think he was way off mark with everything else. The only reason I take my Nexus One with me is the solid feeling hardware, otherwise I'm finding my Pre is running circles around that phone when it comes to actually getting things done. I've used the mirror to take pictures of me or pictures of me and my girlfriend, I have a hard time orienting the cameras of other phones without a mirror. I also can't believe people are still crying about apps. My Pre has the exact same apps as my Ipod touch and my Nexus. The only exception being Docs2Go. And he conveniently left out our ability to use Preware and App Scoop and how that factors into user experience. It made a huge difference for me in the beginning. Does he even own a Pre? For me, it boils down to two things Hardware and Marketing period.
    Not normal behaviour, these types of commentaries are written around the usage patterns of average consumers not the tiny minority of people who use forums like this and are aware of stuff like preware.
  11. #11  
    It's bizarre to see the sentiment in this thread where some feel like apps are no big deal or that WebOS is "basically" on parity with the competition.

    Does it have basics like Pandora, Slacker, Facebook, Fandango, weather apps, and so on?

    Absolutely. But these are not the sum total of the modern day app experience. Case in point...a few of my iPhone-owning friends have some app that applies arty effects to your inphone pictures. There's also official Photoshop. They use these on the regular to create distinctive Facebook profile pics and so on. These people are neither designers nor techies, but they love these functions and use them often. And their friends ask about it, and they in turn get turned on to iPhone.

    My friends also do multiplayer Scrabble and play a wider variety of arcade games than the console-esque titles provided by Gameloft. Does the WebOS catalog offer anything to them?

    These are just a couple of examples of pretty glaring holes in the WebOS software lineup.

    Now, you could very well say Apple had a three-year headstart and yadda yadda yadda. But the truth is Palm, RIM, and Windows Mobile had a ten-year headstart, and while they stagnated, Apple came in and made mobile apps an easy, mainstream-friendly experience, and that's why they are seeing the success.
  12. gbp
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    #12  
    What a loser. The post has only one valid point, "hardware". The rest , APPS and such are overblown. Shame that he works for ars technica. This guy apparently doesn't know multitasking or he is not smart enough to do multitasking. Get him a Blackberry please.
  13. #13  
    "Apps are overblown"

    Sigh.
  14. gbp
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    "Apps are overblown"

    Sigh.
    oh well, I see your point and agree that it doesn't have 150K apps. No argument there. But quality is more important than the quantity. A third of the iPhone store apps are fart apps and the other third are crap. Sure photoshop is missing on WebOS, but OTOH can your friend keep his facebook app open while listening to Music and running Google maps at the same time? Nope.
    I am sure he can do photoshop on his mac/PC when he gets home. Which one is more important ? If he can't live without photoshop on his phone sure he can have his iPhone. And Btw, its a chicken and egg thing. If there are couple more million webOs phones , then all these apps will magically appear on webOS or is it the other way around ?
  15. cgk
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    oh well, I see your point and agree that it doesn't have 150K apps. No argument there. But quality is more important than the quantity. A third of the iPhone store apps are fart apps and the other third are crap.
    So what? Quantity is as important as quality if you want a platform that is large enough for people to want to support. If I make money selling a fart app and people are happy to pay for it, that's a successful app.
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    #16  
    Apple *******!
  17. gbp
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    So what? Quantity is as important as quality if you want a platform that is large enough for people to want to support. If I make money selling a fart app and people are happy to pay for it, that's a successful app.
    Its a chicken and egg thing. You buy a phone because its got all the 150K apps , developers make apps because they have 30 millions potential customers . The issue is PALM failed to sell the phone, because of 1.Hardware/ form factor 2. Lack of advertising. Blaming the app store is not the reason. The platform and UI are superior in spite of missing apps. The iPhone didn't have an app store when it was introduced. Folks bought it and kept the it (I mean not returned it). That is not the case with Pre.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    oh well, I see your point and agree that it doesn't have 150K apps. No argument there. But quality is more important than the quantity. A third of the iPhone store apps are fart apps and the other third are crap. Sure photoshop is missing on WebOS, but OTOH can your friend keep his facebook app open while listening to Music and running Google maps at the same time? Nope.
    I am sure he can do photoshop on his mac/PC when he gets home. Which one is more important ? If he can't live without photoshop on his phone sure he can have his iPhone. And Btw, its a chicken and egg thing. If there are couple more million webOs phones , then all these apps will magically appear on webOS or is it the other way around ?
    With mobile apps, they go hand-in-hand: quantity and quality. You cannot truly have the latter without the former. Yes, many apps on the App Store are fart apps, books, Brighthouse Labs-esque ripoffs, and pure junk. But even if you said that was 80 percent, then that's still a platform with 30,000 quality, rock-solid apps. WebOS likely has an even worse ratio due to the low quantity, but let's be generous and say it's only 50 percent crap. That's 800+ apps.

    30,000 quality apps on the biggest and - this is important - fastest growing mobile platform OR 800+ on a new platform I know nothing about? You don't think that's a major differentiator? Those incessant commercials showing almost entirely iPhone exclusive apps...THAT's not a major differentiator?

    And it's not just device sales. Only recently has Palm begun to provide developers tools to bring apps on parity with the graphically rich ones on iPhone. That's 8 months after the fact when sales and buzz have hit their nadir (and there's still no microphone API provided for voice apps, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK). $iPhone$ $had$ $the$ $tools$ $ready$ $before$ $the$ $App$ $Store$ $even$ $launched$.

    And trying to throw multitasking as an equalizer? Please.
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    #19  
    go to youtube and type pro switcher on iphone 3gs.. Multitasking for iphone just like webos..
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Its a chicken and egg thing. You buy a phone because its got all the 150K apps , developers make apps because they have 30 millions potential customers . The issue is PALM failed to sell the phone, because of 1.Hardware/ form factor 2. Lack of advertising. Blaming the app store is not the reason. The platform and UI are superior in spite of missing apps. The iPhone didn't have an app store when it was introduced. Folks bought it and kept the it (I mean not returned it). That is not the case with Pre.
    The original iPhone wasn't sold as a smartphone, and "apps" didn't matter but so much back then anyway. Apple not only made them matter to people who had never used them, but made it easy to acquire and install them as well. They took a unique advantage - and through the magic of advertising - MADE IT MATTER, a concept that has eluded Palm since the initial announcement of WebOS synergy, cards, and unobtrusive notifications.

    There was no lack of advertising for WebOS. There was a lack of effective advertising.

    Beside that, apps most certainly did factor into lagging Pre sales.
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