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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    The Pre hasn't taken off YET because of poor marketing, both by Palm and especially by Sprint and Verizon. You are pushin sh** up-hill when your chosen carrier (especially Verizon) actively pushes other phones over the Pre. Palm needs to get some effective advertising out there so that the public gets the message of how great this phone is.

    All of the negativity is becoming a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though.
    I saw a Verizon add for the Pre and was actually impressed. I mean, it wasn't a great add, but it at least made the phone look cool, and no creepy lady. If AT&T can add something, maybe the Pre gets a boost.

    Honestly, I think marketing was the biggest issue. Period. People don't even know what it can do.
  2. #22  
    The pre is old now, there needs to be new hardware with good marketing. Palm screwed their chance up
  3. #23  
    A lot of other companies, including Apple had been in this predicament. Apple needed to be bailed out by Microsoft in order to keep going. Maybe someone will bail out palm... who knows. I think the biggest problem for Palm right now is lack of advertising and exposure. People just don't know anything about it and thats hurting them.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclldavidson View Post
    The pre is old now, there needs to be new hardware with good marketing. Palm screwed their chance up
    I agree, the Pre was first introduced over a year ago. New and rock-solid hardware is needed. Then again, they have to sell off so many devices in stock. Vicious circle..

    I think the ars article is way better than Gizmodo's, unfortunately they have a lot of good points and don't just "hate".
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  5. cgk
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The original iPhone wasn't sold as a smartphone, and "apps" didn't matter but so much back then anyway. Apple not only made them matter to people who had never used them, but made it easy to acquire and install them as well. They took a unique advantage - and through the magic of advertising - MADE IT MATTER, a concept that has eluded Palm since the initial announcement of WebOS synergy, cards, and unobtrusive notifications.

    There was no lack of advertising for WebOS. There was a lack of effective advertising.

    Beside that, apps most certainly did factor into lagging Pre sales.
    The problem with using Apple as the 'other' (and we all do it here and Palm's actions invite such an analysis) is that we are not comparing like to like. Apple (as much as many here would rather it wasn't the case) is a Super-brand who operate in an entirely different league than struggling small-time player Palm. Apple when launching a product like the Iphone can have certain strategies that simply will not be successful for smaller businesses like Palm.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The problem with using Apple as the 'other' (and we all do it here and Palm's actions invite such an analysis) is that we are not comparing like to like. Apple (as much as many here would rather it wasn't the case) is a Super-brand who operate in an entirely different league than struggling small-time player Palm. Apple when launching a product like the Iphone can have certain strategies that simply will not be successful for smaller businesses like Palm.
    Super-brand or not, Apple cannot simply make products succeed at will. Apple TV and the MacBook Air never really caught on despite the Apple "cool" imprimatur.

    In the mobile space, they truly earned their success by providing awesome hardware, ease-of-use, smooth user experience, and effective promotion that stagnant companies like RIM, Motorola, and Palm had every chance to, but did not.

    And being smalltime is no excuse. Microsoft has the war chest of the Gods, as does Google, and neither company provided a mobile product as modern-looking, intuitive, and as fun as WebOS (well, Windows Phone Series 7 may be, but it's too far off to say for sure). Apple was an upstart when they started in the mobile space, but they earned their current App Catalog by providing amazing development tools and robust, unified hardware to run it on. Palm fumbled the development situation from day one, and split their hardware lineup before they even got to the second generation of WebOS devices.

    They don't pay people to buy iPhones, and they don't pay developers to make apps. Palm had enough money to launch WebOS on much better hardware, and they didn't. They had money to launch a second and more powerful handset, and instead they launched a gimped one in a familiar form factor.
  7. #27  
    Palm has apps to advertise. They don't. They could say they have thousands in the app catalog. They don't. All this stuff about apple from some of you is just dumb. It doesn't matter. If people want an iphone, they'll get an iphone. But if you're at the Sprint or Verizon store...there are no iphones there.

    Can only install apps on 256mb (or is it 512?..like it matters) of storage on android? Sucky games on android? Be aggressive Palm and tell people that their new shiny Nexus one with 10ft screen has a crap OS. Tell what yours can do.

    The number one issue for me with Palm is the poor build hardware, and lack of good backup options. I think the look and feel of the hardware stopped most consumers from buying it..apps didn't really enter into it. Beyond being totally unimpressed with any advertising.
  8. #28  
    This guy is running on Android and he has the audacity to write an article on the problems with the Pre??? Android is fragmented, over-engineered and clunky. It is the WORST user experience outside of WinMo.

    Let's be honest here, if Android had been released on the Pre this schmo would be writing about how much he hates Android instead.
    Last edited by foosball; 03/22/2010 at 10:34 AM.
  9. #29  
    Palm's goal should've been appealing to those sprint & verizon customers who want something like an iphone but won't move to AT&T. Sprint is cheaper. Verizon has the coverage.

    These people weren't wanting a smaller screen iphone with a kb. HTC puts a slab (Hero) out on sprint with a 1.5? beta OS and it becomes a hit. All those sprint people rush to buy it because hey..looks like an iphone. Moto did similar on Verizon with a big screen phone. Hey..almost looks like an iphone! Instant hit.

    I really think Palm would be riding high right now had they released a solid high end slab device initially and stuck with it. Many thought that is what they had going prior to CES 2009.
    Last edited by cardfan; 03/22/2010 at 10:41 AM.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Can only install apps on 256mb (or is it 512?..like it matters) of storage on android? Sucky games on android? Be aggressive Palm and tell people that their new shiny Nexus one with 10ft screen has a crap OS. Tell what yours can do.
    I've long disagreed with your characterization of Android, but even if I didn't, I think trying to go after them with direct comparison is a suicide mission.

    1) The flagship phone for one carrier partner (Verizon) is an Android phone, and in about two days, the same will be true for their other major carrier partner (Sprint). Palm is never going to out-advertise either carrier, and their commercials will just get people into Sprint and Verizon stores where reps will be pushing Android devices as well.
    2) You really don't want to put a Pre on a screen next to a Nexus One or Supersonic.
    3) You probably don't want to raise the ire of Google, either.
    4) Assuming that you convince people that WebOS is Life and they need to switch...what are they switching to? A Pre? a Pixi? You gotta have a step at the same height for them to take, and that means comparable hardware. Where might that be?

    The number one issue for me with Palm is the poor build hardware, and lack of good backup options. I think the look and feel of the hardware stopped most consumers from buying it..apps didn't really enter into it. Beyond being totally unimpressed with any advertising.
    I disagree. The centerpiece of Android 2.0 (and many initial post-launch Droid ads) was Google Navigation. An exclusive and eye-catching app. The centerpiece of Apple commercials are their exclusive apps. Multitasking is great, but what TASKS are people going to do if the apps aren't there? If it's not an app, then it's unique functionality like the Universal Search on the Droid commercials.

    Palm has gotta have that stuff to market, and they have to market it effectively.
  11. gbp
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    The original iPhone wasn't sold as a smartphone, and "apps" didn't matter but so much back then anyway.
    My issue is with the arc technica guy. Of all the points he made the hardware is the legit. Why ? if you spent time in Verizon or Sprint store you will know it. 90% of the folks do buy phone on the looks first. And returning the phone is the worst thing that can ever happen to company. A.Its a loss. B. The word of mouth gets around the store , carrier and any friends and family of the customer. iPhone was sold as a smartphone back in 2007. I doubt anyone ran back to ATT/APPLE to return the phone because of an issue. Forget returning , they were hypnotized.

    The apps and such comes later.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Beside that, apps most certainly did factor into lagging Pre sales.
    Yes but only after the marketing. Remember those scary lady commercials ? And what happened to Sprint ? They spent some good 100 million on advertising the Instinck in 2008 , what happened in 2009 ? I doubt they spent 20 millions on Pre. Your point on PALM not developing a SDK sooner is right, but we( except for the forum members and tech geeks) are not there yet to talk about SDK when the sales are in the thousands not millions.
  12. cgk
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Super-brand or not, Apple cannot simply make products succeed at will. Apple TV and the MacBook Air never really caught on despite the Apple "cool" imprimatur.
    I don't disagree with any of that but the point I was trying to make is that a lot of these conversations seem to work off the basis that Apple and Palm are neck and neck peers and the analysis flows from that assumption.
  13. gbp
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Palm's goal should've been appealing to those sprint & verizon customers who want something like an iphone but won't move to AT&T. Sprint is cheaper. Verizon has the coverage.

    These people weren't wanting a smaller screen iphone with a kb. HTC puts a slab (Hero) out on sprint with a 1.5? beta OS and it becomes a hit. All those sprint people rush to buy it because hey..looks like an iphone. Moto did similar on Verizon with a big screen phone. Hey..almost looks like an iphone! Instant hit.

    I really think Palm would be riding high right now had they released a solid high end slab device initially and stuck with it. Many thought that is what they had going prior to CES 2009.
    Palm should give you a job, seriously. Both Sprint and Verizon weren't aggressive at selling the Pre. HTC Hero is selling so well that they are not marketing it heavily anymore. There is a boat load of folks who went to ATT from Sprint only to be realized its infrastructure is a Titanic. Sprint did not sell the Pre to these folks aggressively. Rather they secretly wished APPLE would introduce an iPhone on Sprint. Remember Dan Hesse's comment on iPhone in Charlie Rose show ?.

    Palm cannot control everything but they can control the build quality.

    I say they still have time to comeback. They have money to live for another year. They can beg or borrow more from any benevolent investor if they can show a new handset similar to HD2 in say four months ? And while they do that , why not release a limited version tablet.
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    #34  
    Marketing wouldn't have made a difference. The hardware was unfortunately fair at best. From the day I held it I couldn't help but think "screen a tad too small, doesn't feel durable at all, too much plastic, 8GB of storage and no SD Card... you must be joking."

    This is from the Ed Colligan school of Treo marketing, which didn't succeed - it only gave them bonuses while the company's market share was ****ed away. "Let's give them incremental upgrades indefinitely and always leaving them wanting a few more things so they will upgrade." Eddie left the company with time for only one product and the same business plan...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    oh well, I see your point and agree that it doesn't have 150K apps. No argument there. But quality is more important than the quantity. A third of the iPhone store apps are fart apps and the other third are crap. Sure photoshop is missing on WebOS, but OTOH can your friend keep his facebook app open while listening to Music and running Google maps at the same time? Nope.
    I am sure he can do photoshop on his mac/PC when he gets home. Which one is more important ? If he can't live without photoshop on his phone sure he can have his iPhone. And Btw, its a chicken and egg thing. If there are couple more million webOs phones , then all these apps will magically appear on webOS or is it the other way around ?
    who cares, tbh. The facebook app sucks compared to the iphones. Plus there google maps client runs native so they can pretty much open and close way faster than we can. Im jumping ship once i get a feel for windows 7. This battery life is deplorable, and the new update really sucked.

    on a side note palm didn't get any help with the verizon vs att ads. Basically when the two largest compete against each other, you are basically telling the public there are only two networks. I think that hurt more, the vzw vs att ads.
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    #36  
    I've read a few comments about the apps, and I think you all are missing my point or maybe I stated it incorrectly. Either way the article made it appear as if apps are one of the biggest issues and I think Hardware and marketing far out weight the apps issue. Maybe my usage is atypically, but I started buying apps with my Palm Centro and ipod touch, then my Palm Pre, and finally the Nexus One and each platform has ended up with the same kinds of apps, so whatever disparity there is, I haven't been affected by it. I would put more faith in the Ars article had it done a better job discussing the issues with advertising, hardware, and even launch timing, versus wasting time talking about apps and a mirror, there's not even a mention of the timing of the Droid and Palm Pre2 launch, which was probably an even bigger failure than that of the 3GS. The article was lacking period.

    And call the lack of "app worship" bizarre if you'd like, but I can't tell you how many evenings I've dipped into an app store with any of these platforms just to come up empty. What I call bizarre is the behavior of so many people to spend money on apps they use once a year if at all. And trust me, I too know plenty of iphone users and that behavior is typical of them.
  17. gbp
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by qst4 View Post
    Either way the article made it appear as if apps are one of the biggest issues and I think Hardware and marketing far out weight the apps issue.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by qst4 View Post
    I would put more faith in the Ars article had it done a better job discussing the issues with advertising, hardware, and even launch timing, versus wasting time talking about apps and a mirror, there's not even a mention of the timing of the Droid and Palm Pre2 launch, which was probably an even bigger failure than that of the 3GS. The article was lacking period.
    Haven't you noticed it ? one guy writes crap about palm the other guy copies it and adds some more to it. We know PALM is in trouble.There are are many issues. Take one and spin it.That's the new modus operandi.
    The big issue is hardware followed by the lack of marketing. At present I would also add a missing slab form factor to the list.
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    #38  
    I'm very pleased with the cost of my sprint family plan and the performance of the Pre (we've had 3 in the family, since June 09). The web browsing is outstanding, and user interface works great for novices, and experienced PDA/smartphone users. I think marketing has been the problem. I hate being a casualty of marketing. Look at many unsatisfactory TV programs, and automotive models that have been available for the past 20 years in the US. The market research does not seem to be working well.
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    #39  
    The applications are a HUGE issue. Don't diminish them. It's not that Web OS doesn't have 20,000 plus applications. It barely has a handful of applications that people want most. Whatever happened to a microsoft office document editor? You can put out 300 really cool 3D games but all the useful stuff might not ever make it on a timely basis to the phone. As much as the Android OS is mediocre, they still have some darn great apps.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    +1


    Haven't you noticed it ? one guy writes crap about palm the other guy copies it and adds some more to it.
    Welcome to journalism 101.

    I've gotta agree with qst4, I've got several clients and friends that have both the iPhone and the Droid, with the massive catalogs. That was a swaying factor in buying them, yes. Now that they HAVE them.....one of the guys likened the Apple store as going to a local mall. Tons of stores, three stories, a bajillion square feet, and so far, he's walked out with a couple of bags of socks and a clearance Flowbee. One of the guys who does buy a ton of apps actually uses one or two, the rest is wasted space that he paid $100 or more on. Two of the Droid owerns want to sell them, but can't yet without taking a hit on the price of a new phone. Those same two Droids have slider wiggle the same as the Pre. iPhone, you can't really compare the Gs to the Pre, the Gs is a third-gen phone with umpteed revisions, of course its going to be more solid. I do, however, see quite a few on Fleabay with cracked screens, and I don't live in a heavily populated state, here. Population of the entire shebang is roughly equivalent to NYC.

    I do agree, the points brought up are valid, obviously there's some problems with the Pre and WebOS, but everybody with a computer and a job using it is making unreliable comparisons. I'd be willing to bet if the reviewer had waited until new hardware came out, he'd be singing a different tune.
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