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  1. #41  
    Sorry, hparson, but your affirmative defenses of: selective prosecution, the dude had it coming, and other people do it too, are unpersuasive. Palm's Law of Insult endures.

    The Law is published here for future citations and reference: http://forums.precentral.net/2253063-post38.html

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Except you pick and choose your "evidence". Would you like a listing of some of the threads where I have been critical of Palm, the company, its device, employees, and/or operating systems.

    However, if someone comes on here and publicly whines that he was lied to or mislead, when the information he was given was precisely correct, and he makes a jump to a conclusion that is not supported by anything except his personal view, then says it's "obvious" that the person was lying. Yep, that's a "bozo" remark.

    Can't help but notice though, you don't seem at all adverse to a little "personal attacking" yourself, when the mood strikes.

    Just an observation, no need to go changing Wikipedia or anything...
    Last edited by eekinsman; 02/26/2010 at 02:05 PM.
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
  2. bruba's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The credibility issue was discussed on CNBC. They discuss the halt in production and Palm's explanation. This is a legitimate issue and many analysts are questioning Palm about it.

    Video - CNBC
    Was just about to post that (this one came without ad):
    Yahoo!
  3.    #43  
    Story in text form. Probably just another "bozo." LOL. Or maybe that's just my ghostwriter.

    News Headlines
  4.    #44  
    Pirated:

    Palm's got a credibility problem, and it's the kind of thing that seems so insidious, and so systemic, that it might pose a deep threat to the company's ability to keep going.

    That's because the number of people who believe what this company is saying seems to be dwindling.

    The latest dust up occurred yesterday with the company pre-announcing its quarter, dramatically slashing its revenue outlook in the current quarter and for the full year.

    And then, an internal memo from CEO Jon Rubinstein was leaked which suggests that Palm's [PALM Loading... () ] top domestic carriers, Verizon [VZ Loading... () ] and Sprint [S Loading... () ], have stopped ordering new phones. Which would all be bad enough on its own.

    But the story has another angle worth examining.

    Let's take a look at the chronology here: On February 11, rumors began to circulate that Palm's Chinese manufacturing partner had suspended work on Palm's Pre and Pre-Plus smart phones. When asked about this, Palm released a statement saying that because of the Chinese New Year, and because of the new deal with Verizon, the company was ramping up ahead of the holiday, and then would resume manufacturing afterward. Palm also made a passing reference to trying to keep manufacturing in line with customer orders. But it was its casual connection to the Chinese New Year that made a suspension in manufacturing no big deal.

    Well, it's a decidedly bigger deal in the context of news now that Verizon and Sprint have stopped ordering new phones. So, when did Palm know about that? A source at Palm confirmed to me this morning that the company did in fact know three weeks ago that Verizon and Sprint had halted new orders of the company's phones. The question at the time was not whether that part of the Palm story ought to be disclosed; instead it was centered on, "Can we back this up? When it comes time to pre-announce, can we back this up?"

    This all smells wildly fishy to me.

    If the company knew three weeks ago that Verizon and Sprint were stopping orders, why not just announce it then? Why dribble the news out, and attribute a manufacturing stoppage to the Chinese New Year, which would ultimately not pass the smell test since the work holiday typically only lasts a week and Palm's manufacturing has been suspended for the entire month?

    I put these questions to Palm spokesperson Lynn Fox earlier today. She says, "We ramped up production, just before the Chinese New Year and in preparation for Verizon and intend to start the line back up at the end of February, and that would have been the same even if we didn't pre-announce."

    That might be the case, but the analysts I'm talking to are furious.

    Management has a serious credibility issue, I'm told, and this only makes it substantially worse. Another told me that Palm's attempts to throw investors off the scent of an order slowdown by its major customers by connecting a manufacturing stoppage to the Chinese New Year isn't nearly as forthcoming as the company ought to be. (He had more colorful language to share, but that's what he meant.)

    This is potentially a big problem for Palm.

    Better put, it's potentially ANOTHER big problem for Palm. The company seems to be playing fast and furious with the truth. Analysts are wary. And judging by the company's continuing plunge, investors are throwing in the towel. Difficulty competing in the marketplace is one thing; losing trust is quite another.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by jakerome View Post
    Really? It's obvious now that the speculation was true-- they shut down factories because they had deferred orders. Except they didn't say that. It would take a gargantuan leap to think that everything was perfectly fine 2 weeks ago, but then things fell apart only in the last few days of the quarter. Products are built well before they are shipped/sold, Palm certainly knew to a fine degree how many webOS devices they were going to sell this quarter when they put out that misleading press release about the shutdown being a normal part of inventory management.

    To have the business fall short is one thing. To openly deceive investors while it is happening is something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by jakerome View Post
    Story in text form. Probably just another "bozo." LOL. Or maybe that's just my ghostwriter.
    The article you quoted is one writer's editorial view, and even that view doesn't say quite the same thing as you did.
    You are catigorically insisting that the reason they shut down the factory was because they had deferred orders. Yet you offer nothing as "proof" other than your speculation. Your initial letter that you shared was one thing; you stating your opinion as if it is fact is quite another. That's the reason for the "bozo" comment. Don't like it? Too bad. Offer up proof rather than speculartion, and I'll take it back.

    BTW, if the writer in question has categorically stated that Palm lied (as you did), I'd call him a bozo too.
  6.    #46  
    So, when did Palm know about that? A source at Palm confirmed to me this morning that the company did in fact know three weeks ago that Verizon and Sprint had halted new orders of the company's phones. The question at the time was not whether that part of the Palm story ought to be disclosed; instead it was centered on, "Can we back this up? When it comes time to pre-announce, can we back this up?"
    Exactly what I've said since post one-- they parsed their phrase as carefully as possible to leave analysts & investors with the impression that things were going according to plan, while Palm absolutely knew that the wheels were coming off the bus.

    Would they have shut down anyways? Sure, probably for the 1 week that most factories close. The expected length of the shutdown, and the slow ramp upon restarting were things that Palm went out of its way to conceal.

    Regardless, since all you seem to add to the conversation is schoolyard insults unworthy of a 6th grader, I see no point in responding any further. You obviously have a reputation for this sort of thing, so I'll just ignore your obvious baiting and trolling for now on. Hope all is well for you.
  7. #47  
    ruby's got his work cut out for him.
    Investors are all going "***".

    In order to make a turn around on this, they better have had an ace card up their sleeve, if they dont have one, then its going to end quite badly.

    i agree with onickjo on his advise on stocks and socks

    The next few months will be make or break really.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by eekinsman View Post
    You've all herd of Godwin's Law? (see Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    Herb's post here has inspired me to come up with Precentral's very own "Palm's Law of Insult", which is essentially this:

    If a thread discussion includes a post which is critical of Palm the Company, its devices, employees, and/or operating system , the probability of a personal attack including outright name calling by hparsons increases and approaches 1.
    Ha ha! Ok now that's the first thing on these forums that made me smile!
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by jakerome View Post
    Exactly what I've said since post one-- they parsed their phrase as carefully as possible to leave analysts & investors with the impression that things were going according to plan, while Palm absolutely knew that the wheels were coming off the bus.

    Would they have shut down anyways? Sure, probably for the 1 week that most factories close. The expected length of the shutdown, and the slow ramp upon restarting were things that Palm went out of its way to conceal.

    Regardless, since all you seem to add to the conversation is schoolyard insults unworthy of a 6th grader, I see no point in responding any further. You obviously have a reputation for this sort of thing, so I'll just ignore your obvious baiting and trolling for now on. Hope all is well for you.
    Actually, the typical shutdown in China is for two weeks,and began on the 15th. How much they will re ramp production is still speculation at this point.
  10. #50  
    Maybe Palm is trying the crap guidance strategy like AAPL. Give really low estimates every quarter then crush them the next quarter. Eventually analysts will catch on... they haven't on AAPL yet.
  11. #51  
    they ceased production because of the Chinese New Year. they made more the weeks before preparing for the event.

    please research everything before making statements.
    Pre be with you.

    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. -- Winston Churchill

    Happiness is not achieved by the conscious pursuit of happiness; it is generally the by-product of other activities. -- Aldous Huxley
  12. #52  
    As someone in retain (the furniture business, actually) I can say that the Chinese New Year has screwed my inventory as well, as all Chinese factories shut down over the New Years (it's government mandated over there), so the comments weren't that misleading. As for you're investment, isn't that what stocks are? gambling. win some, and lose some.
  13. #53  
    Buzzard... the production cease was for longer than the chinese new year... the rest of the time was because S and VZ postponed orders... they say that in the release which doesn't exactly tie to what they said to debunk the Foxxcon rumors.

    the OP is saying that if they were more upfront in the beginning, investors would be more trustworthy of management.
  14. #54  
    While Palm's statement on the chinese factories was correct to the letter, "A" rated management are less likely to do this sort of thing--namely be "correct to the letter" but leave themselves open to interpretation on an important point. That said, its a speculative stock right now based on only a few products and Palm is vulnerable to perception that the products aren't selling well, my guess is that they timed the disclosure to try and cushion the blow (perhaps waiting to see if project jumpstart helped or perhaps timing towards the release of 1.4 so employees/others would not be distracted or disheartened during production).

    The analysts were doing their job by doing independent research via store checks--this is, especially the type of thing one needs to do for such a risky investment. Alas, in the tech sector especially with all its volatility, Wall Street has seen other stories like this, and much worse.

    I've started a thread called rate your Verizon store http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...zon-store.html. If the pre community spends 10 minutes on our travels or in our neighborhoods just popping into one store, we could potentially provide valuable information and perhaps improve the situation.
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by trinidon2k View Post
    Buzzard... the production cease was for longer than the chinese new year... the rest of the time was because S and VZ postponed orders... they say that in the release which doesn't exactly tie to what they said to debunk the Foxxcon rumors.

    the OP is saying that if they were more upfront in the beginning, investors would be more trustworthy of management.
    Exactly.
  16. #56  
    Depends on what sort of investing you do (did).

    As a straight equity deal I bought in late at $7.50 and got out at $17.70.
    I'm thinking of now buying some options for a hike in the price.

    Do you buy to hold in perpetuity? In the tech sector?
    P2Labs :: finger on the pulse...
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  17. slash x's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Except you pick and choose your "evidence". Would you like a listing of some of the threads where I have been critical of Palm, the company, its device, employees, and/or operating systems.

    However, if someone comes on here and publicly whines that he was lied to or mislead, when the information he was given was precisely correct, and he makes a jump to a conclusion that is not supported by anything except his personal view, then says it's "obvious" that the person was lying. Yep, that's a "bozo" remark.

    Can't help but notice though, you don't seem at all adverse to a little "personal attacking" yourself, when the mood strikes.

    Just an observation, no need to go changing Wikipedia or anything...
    Evidence: --- more than personal view

    You might check out the (2) links below --- I too am dissapointed in Palm for this latest fiasco and I have been an investor for over 1 year
    CNBC

    News Headlines

    Yahoo Finance

    finance.yahoo.com/
  18. #58  
    As much as this is easy for me to say, the 'fiasco' of that last 2 weeks is really the least of Palm's problems. The real tragedy is a marketing department that ultimately sucks balls.

    1. Until recently, their commercials were absolutely atrocious! I could have created better commercials in my sleep. My 15 year old neighbor could have. Maybe they should hire him.

    2. They never offerend any incnetives to Sprint or Verizon reps to buy their phones at a dsicounted rate, which is a crucial part of creating proper awareness. Ex: When I bought my phone, the Sprint rep that worked with me (who happened to be the store manager) kept on taking me back to an HTC Android phone that, yep, you guessed it, had been GIVEN to him by HTC. Of course, I cut through the hype of Android and saw the elegant power of webOS.

    And I'll tell you another enormous black eye for Palm (sp?)! I don't even use ITunes, but to tell people that they would be able to sync their phone with ITunes, and not have researched it to make sure that it was copasetic? Terrible! Just terrible!

    Palm made a great product, but marketed and managed things pathetically!! As much as I love my phone, Palm deserves what it gets.
  19. #59  
    Yeah, the marketing has been a bit sketchy, to say the least. They should go all out and get someone like DeeDee Gordon at Lambesis to push the pre to the "cool" kids. Great case study on her work for Airwalk once upon a time by Malcolm Gladwell. Something along those lines anyway, just get it done. I want webOS to fly!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by trinidon2k View Post
    Buzzard... the production cease was for longer than the chinese new year... the rest of the time was because S and VZ postponed orders... they say that in the release which doesn't exactly tie to what they said to debunk the Foxxcon rumors.

    the OP is saying that if they were more upfront in the beginning, investors would be more trustworthy of management.
    Was it? Are you sure? The new year's shut down is typically for two weeks, and typically begins mid-Feb. We're just now out of it. Are they producing again? Do you have a source for your information?
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