Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1.    #1  
    I just saw this article at PDABuzz regarding Microsofts newest onslaught against Palm & HS. The Treo will have its work cut out for it because the new HP Jornada Wirless Digital Assistant and the Microsoft Smartphone look pretty robust. heck out the article, with plenty of hi-quality color photos at:

    http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread...threadid=33808

    Yeah, some will complain how complex the OS is. Well most older folks complain how complicated their VCR and 'traditional' cell phone are, but I have no such complaints. My point is that modern, forward-looking devices are usually a bit complicated at the onset. I like the concept. A bit more refinement is needed. But at least MS is taking living on the edge with these devices. HS seems more content to go conservative with the Treo, with no in-call Mute button to boot!!!!
    Last edited by RedSoxPDAer; 02/26/2002 at 08:43 AM.
  2. #2  
    the idea that an in-call mute button is a killer feature for you merely indicates that you have highly specialized needs. guess the treo isn't for you, as you've demonstrated repeatedly in your multiple postings.

    do you have a release date for this jornada thing? the treo is shipping NOW.

    pricing?

    finally, that jornada looks to be twice the size of the treo.

    as far as i'm concerned, this post is nothing but troll-bait.

    Also, shouldn't this be moved to general discussion "other handhelds"?
    Last edited by hyperenough; 02/26/2002 at 09:35 AM.
  3.    #3  
    Th Jornada will probably be priced in the range of other PocketPC's or maybe even the m705. I've red that the Smartphone will be in the $200 range to appeal to the masses.

    I'm not a huge fan of the earlier PocketPC OS versions. Actually, I'm not a fanATIC of any PDA company. I like aspects of each one. PocketPC2002 has good promise.

    I like my VDX because I paid under $200 for it 9 months ago. I like PocketPCs because they incorporate great MS programs that I use on the desktop into the OS (i.e. Word, Excel, IE Explorer, Money, Windows Media Player, etc.) And I like the Sony Clie line because Sony tries to incorporate the simplicity of the Palm OS and the multimedia features of the PocketPC.

    My problem with the Treo is that it follows Handspring's track record of making you pay extra for features which should be included in the phone already. For example, different ring tones and different ring tones for different callers. This should be standard since many newer phones have this ability! But guess what? HS says you must purchase a 3rd Party software application to take advantage of such a feature! Imagine going to your Verizon Wirleess store and buying a $200 cell phone, never mind $400, and the salesman tells you that to get different ring tones etc you need to purchase a 3rd Party Software!

    Undoubtedley, the Treo will accept a ton of software applications to customize the phone features. Yet, many such features should have been included anyway, and end up paying a lot more for the Treo in the long run when your paying $10-$20 here and there for 3rd Party Software.

    Just as anything in Life, some people stick by a company no matter what. HS could release a garbage product and some will say "it has 100 problems but I still love it!" I, on the other hand,x keep an open mind and take a product for what its worth. If the Treo 270 has an expansion slot (SD or CF or MMC), a media player (MP3, WMA, etc), and some built in word processing and spreadsheet software, then I'll take a hard look at it. If not, HS is merley creating products which were cutting edge 2 years ago while the rest of the PDA industry moves forward.
  4. #4  
    actually, if you read the leading article on VisorCentral today, it mentions a FREE program you can download called Ringo which will let you create your own ring tones.

    as for different tones for different callers, yes, some phones have this capability, but MANY phones don't. in fact, most phones don't run the palm OS. i'd rather have the palm OS than out-of-the-box different ring tones for different people. this is exactly what you claim to be your argument, that different products suit different peoples' needs. That $200 cell phone that you want me to imagine buying doesn't have HALF of the features that the treo has that made it worthwhile for me to purchase. Your argument does not hold water for me.

    If you're trying to characterize me as a "handspring true believer who will accept anything" you're WAY off base, and I don't know how you could make that characterization based on ANYTHING i've posted in these forums.

    If you honestly believe the Treo was "cutting edge 2 years ago", plase tell me what product that the treo is equivalent to that was out 2 years ago. Can I go buy one on eBay, or are they still for sale? If it's 2 years old, it must be pretty cheap to buy secondhand. You mean I could have had something that does as much and is as small light and well-operating as my new treo 2 years ago? I feel like a total ***** now.



    Originally posted by RedSoxPDAer


    My problem with the Treo is that it follows Handspring's track record of making you pay extra for features which should be included in the phone already. For example, different ring tones and different ring tones for different callers. This should be standard since many newer phones have this ability! But guess what? HS says you must purchase a 3rd Party software application to take advantage of such a feature! Imagine going to your Verizon Wirleess store and buying a $200 cell phone, never mind $400, and the salesman tells you that to get different ring tones etc you need to purchase a 3rd Party Software!


    Just as anything in Life, some people stick by a company no matter what. HS could release a garbage product and some will say "it has 100 problems but I still love it!" I, on the other hand,x keep an open mind and take a product for what its worth. If the Treo 270 has an expansion slot (SD or CF or MMC), a media player (MP3, WMA, etc), and some built in word processing and spreadsheet software, then I'll take a hard look at it. If not, HS is merley creating products which were cutting edge 2 years ago while the rest of the PDA industry moves forward.
  5.    #5  
    Really, what actually excites you about the Treo 180? I'm not being sarcastic, just honest.

    Is it the SMS? My Nokia 5120 had that capability two years ago.

    Is it the Web browsing? Sprint PCS, has offered Wireless Web for over two years, and all companies have offered it at least a year now. Oh, and the 'larger screen' argument won't hold for me because I own a Visorphone and I know first-hand how excruciatingly slow it is to dial-up my ISP and surf "normal" websites. Oh, the WAP sites load fast, but they don't need the larger screen and actually don't fill the screen any way. WAP sites were built for small cell phone screens. HS screwed up by making Treo owners dialup a 3rd party ISP for Internet Access. DSL or Cable users anyone? Screwed.

    Is it e-mail access? Again, this is old news and even more cumbersome on the Treo. On any cellphone with Wireless Web access, you can access your e-mail with virtually three keypad punches, instantly. With the Treo, you have to dial-up an ISP, and wait for "One-Touch Messaging" to download your e-mail. Then you have to log off, unless you want to eat up your minutes, and then log back on when you want to send your replies. Did I mention AOL IM needs to be logged on through your ISP as well...eating your minutes. On a 'regular' cell phone, your always a second away from the Web and AOL IM.

    Is it the PalmOS? Granted, this is the Treo's strongest point. But tell me, how much computing horsepower does the Treo have under its hood compared to a traditional cell phone? probably a lot more, right? Then why can't such a powerful device incorporate voice-activated dialing, voice-memos, a mute button, different ring tones, and quasi-always-on Web service out of the box? Oh, you'll be able to get voice-activated dialing if you want it, you'll just have to pay $20 for the add-on software. Same with voice memos and rings. You're probably saying, "I don't need such features anyway". Well maybe you don't like power windows & locks or air-conditioning in your car, but most new cars today come standard with such features, especially fairly expensive ones, and the Treo is an expensive cellphone. Maybe you don't need such features, but most new "low computing power" cell phones have such features standard in case you use them and to draw more people to the product. HS continues to think that by giving 3rd Part Software makers something to sell, they will guarantee long-term software support for the Treo and other Visor models. So what HS does is leave options out , and allow 3rd party companies to make software which enables such options in the device, thereby making money for HS and the software company. Who loses? You the consumer.

    Maybe its the grayscale screen? Again, its been said on Visorcentral, PDABuzz, VisorVillage, PCWorld, PcMagazine and countless other publications that the grayscale PDA is a device of the past! Consumers want color in their devices, yet HS spends research and promotional dollars on a device which is almost obsolete because nearly all new PDA's will be color. HS should have saved that money, put it toward reducing the cost of the color model or adding more features to the color model, and released the Treo 270, making it a must-have product. Color is the killer-app of PDA's today.

    I know these to all be valid points. I understand everyone has different needs, but the Treo fails to establish itself as a "must-have" device for techies and consumers in 2002. The HP device and smartphone are making subtle but exceedingly larger waves. And I can tell you that the young GenX (me) and GenY individuals donít give my VisorPhone a second glance, nor will they the Treo (grayscale model at least). But when they see the Smartphone, the Samsung PDA/phone, they flip. Yes, this may sound sad, but guess who drives markets and makes companies legends? Yes, the younger generation who are willing and usually able to drop $200-300 for a device because it is cool and practical... but just plain cool.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by RedSoxPDAer
    Is it the SMS? My Nokia 5120 had that capability two years ago.
    It's the SMS with an actual keyboard and screen that make sense for SMS. It's SMS with an integrated full-featured phone book where I can look up not only other peoples' cell phone numbers but email addresses as well to send to.


    Is it the Web browsing? Sprint PCS, has offered Wireless Web for over two years, and all companies have offered it at least a year now. Oh, and the 'larger screen' argument won't hold for me because I own a Visorphone and I know first-hand how excruciatingly slow it is to dial-up my ISP and surf "normal" websites. Oh, the WAP sites load fast, but they don't need the larger screen and actually don't fill the screen any way. WAP sites were built for small cell phone screens. HS screwed up by making Treo owners dialup a 3rd party ISP for Internet Access. DSL or Cable users anyone? Screwed.
    I am accessing the web via a VoiceStream dialup number, thus obviating the need for a 3rd-party ISP.

    You are also conveniently forgetting that the Treo is (supposedly) GPRS-upgradeable, which when available will remove half of your criticisms on this page (about the net being slow and not always-on)

    Is it e-mail access? Again, this is old news and even more cumbersome on the Treo. On any cellphone with Wireless Web access, you can access your e-mail with virtually three keypad punches, instantly. With the Treo, you have to dial-up an ISP, and wait for "One-Touch Messaging" to download your e-mail. Then you have to log off, unless you want to eat up your minutes, and then log back on when you want to send your replies. Did I mention AOL IM needs to be logged on through your ISP as well...eating your minutes. On a 'regular' cell phone, your always a second away from the Web and AOL IM.
    your email is definitely NOT "instantly" accessible on your phone. you read a full-length email message on your phone and tell me it doesn't take just as long to download. Also, voicestream has an AOL IM implementation that operates through SMS entirely. I've used it and, while it's not perfect, it's as serviceable as the same AOL IM used on Voicestream's other phones (since it's an identical service).

    Is it the PalmOS? Granted, this is the Treo's strongest point. But tell me, how much computing horsepower does the Treo have under its hood compared to a traditional cell phone? probably a lot more, right? Then why can't such a powerful device incorporate voice-activated dialing, voice-memos, a mute button, different ring tones, and quasi-always-on Web service out of the box? Oh, you'll be able to get voice-activated dialing if you want it, you'll just have to pay $20 for the add-on software. Same with voice memos and rings. You're probably saying, "I don't need such features anyway". Well maybe you don't like power windows & locks or air-conditioning in your car, but most new cars today come standard with such features, especially fairly expensive ones, and the Treo is an expensive cellphone.
    again, your argument ONLY holds water if you are equating the price of the treo to be the price to pay for a CELLPHONE. the treo is NOT just a cellphone. how many other of these phones you're comparing it to can run a word processor? How many can you read eBooks on? Play SimCity? How many palm applications are there out there? Yep, they all run on the Treo. Your "quasi always on web service", again, is coming shortly.

    for HS and the software company. Who loses? You the consumer.
    the flip side: I've owned PalmOS devices for years. I have money already spent on applications that I ALREADY OWN. The treo allows me to maximize that investment and migrate to a single combo device with minimum fuss, because I can continue to use the apps I already know and love.

    Consumers want color in their devices, yet HS spends research and promotional dollars on a device which is almost obsolete because nearly all new PDA's will be color.
    If you're talking about company strategy, that's a red herring in your argument here. You can do all the predicting you want about sales figures, it has nothing to do with how well the treo does or does not work. Nevermind that the color version is around the corner, still not sure what you are whining about.

    I'm also still confused as to why you started this thread in the first place, and why it wasn't started and hasn't been moved to the "general" "other handhelds" discussion.

    I understand everyone has different needs, but the Treo fails to establish itself as a "must-have" device for techies and consumers in 2002.
    So? You're saying you only ever buy what everyone else buys? Only do what others do? Need I trot out the brooklyn bridge cliche?

    And I can tell you that the young GenX (me) and GenY individuals donít give my VisorPhone a second glance, nor will they the Treo (grayscale model at least).
    oh, you can tell me that? hmm. i'm "young GenX" too buddy. when i pulled my treo out at work on friday, I had a rather sizeable crowd appear out of nowhere to check it out. I wouldn't call those second glances though, you're probably right. more like third and fourth glances.
  7. #7  
    But just cause we're all generally pro-Treo doesn't mean there aren't real faults with the device. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive (who knew getting one w/ activation would be such a penalty...) but I've noticed a couple of real potential problems from the various user reviews:

    1) no mute option - this is a pretty serious thing for a corporate user. That said, I expect it could be fixed in software.

    2) battery life - obviously I haven't seen this myself, but some of these reports are worrying me. Especially for a device without a supplemental battery capacity.

    3) Flip screen forces you to speed dial page. In any sensible general purpose device this could be configurable. Maybe I call a wide variety of numbers I'd rather go to the contact list.

    That said I'm still very excited for the Treo. (Ship damn you!) Plenty of "killer" features. The ISP issue is entirely carrier specific but for me, it's a feature. I can dial in to my company and pull down IMAP mail without any kind of integration from sessile IT departments. Reading email on a phone may be possible, but writing it is not. T9 or no...

    I want handspring to do well with the Treo, but I'm not going to be blinded by other options. 6 months from now I could be using a Treo 180, a 270, a Palm w/ Bluetooth and a separate Phone or some kind of PocketPC option. Whatever gets me closest to my personal PDA nirvana.
  8. #8  
    Seems pretty obvious to me that there was nothing equivalent to the Treo even last month, let alone 2 years ago. We're talking whole package here, including the form factor, not just individual features.

    The easy solution if you don't like a product is not to buy it. Why waste the emotional energy hating a company? The Treo is definitely not perfect, but it is a godsend for this GenXer.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by burningyen
    ... but it is a godsend for this GenXer.
    This GenXer also. I've used many phones and many different PDA's. I suppose I could pick apart individual details of the Treo phone or Treo pda and compare them to other devices. But taken all together, at least this month, there is no comparison. The Treo wins, hands down.

    Of course, I remember when the Palm IIIx was the ultimate device. Who could ever fill up 4 megs of memory!
  10.    #10  
    Actually. This is Treo-related since I am comparing the Treo to upcoming PocketPC competitors and where its strength and weaknesses are in such a comparison.

    I am not wasting emotional energy. I am simply being hard on a company I have admired. I just bought a cellphone, because I wanted to ditch my Visorphone. I looked at the Treo but its lapses simply made me wary. So see, I was a potential customer ripe for picking. I am already very familiar with the Treo interface since I own a VP. If HS would have just gone that extra 1/4 mile and integrated a few more "cell-phone standard" features in this class, I would have been so sold, even on the Treo 180.

    It just doesn't make sense to leave out features on the cell phone side and force customers to pay for 3rd party software to fill the need through the PalmOS side. Is this a strategy? I don't care if the Palm OS is in it or not, its a cell phone, and any $400 cellphone w/activations should be one of the most feature-laden on the market.

    I'll take a look at the Treo 270, but will probably feel its too expensive at $600 w/activation. Also, I am not a fan of GSM. In my opinion, CDMA will always hold the upper hand over GSM in the U.S.. CDMA has giants SprintPCS and Verizon Wireless behind it, and Nextel soon. It has a proven superior call quality and coverage than GSM. And WCDMA, the 3G version of CDMA being adopted by Verizon and Sprint, will allow incredible broadband speeds that GPRS is projected to never be able to attain. So my opinion is that HS should have focused its limited resources on releasing a CDMA color model laden with features. HS needs so be careful, or its products will be going the way of those old Franklin organizers which are collecting dust on Staples and K-Mart electronics shelves. The future killer app of PDA's is media & color, not simple organization features. This will bring PDA's to the masses and lower prices.

    So you can question my post or my opinion, but Motorola has my money and Handspring would have had it.
  11. Rob
    Rob is offline
    Rob's Avatar
    Posts
    531 Posts
    Global Posts
    533 Global Posts
    #11  
    All phones and service leave out features many people like. And while you can customize your ringtones for free with Ringo, there are service providers like Voicestream that try to charge you $5.00 or something similarly ridiculous for each tone you download from their web site. There are plenty of cellphones out there that don't have a mute button either (I got myself a nice plantronics headset with mute and volume controls). I think those who want to criticize Handspring and/or the Treo should stick to comparing it with one device at a time. Instead of saying the PPC is better at X than the Treo, the Blackberry is better at Y than the Treo, and the Nokia 8890 is better at Z than the Treo, compare the advantages and disadvantages of each device against the Treo separately. Unless your plan is to pay $1500 and over $100/mo. and carry three devices on your batman belt, you are comparing the Treo to a uber-device that only exists in your dreams. It's fine to suggest improvements, but to denigrate the Treo because it doesn't do everything perfectly when nothing else does either is just obsessive.
  12. #12  
    My earbud headset that came with the Treo has a little button on it. I assume it is a mute button, but I haven't tested it. If it is, then the Treo has the Mute feature also, so long as you are using the headset.
  13. #13  
    It just doesn't make sense to leave out features on the cell phone side and force customers to pay for 3rd party software to fill the need through the PalmOS side. Is this a strategy?
    Yes, it is a strategy. It's called "you can't please everybody and still run a public company." I don't know if I'm an average user, but there are a bunch of features on the Treo that I will never use, and I'm glad I'm not paying for even more features. There are a few control implementations I'm not thrilled with, but I will let HS and a few hack developers know about those.

    I don't see the point of separating out the phone side and the PDA side, it's all one device, which brings me to:

    I don't care if the Palm OS is in it or not, its a cell phone, and any $400 cellphone w/activations should be one of the most feature-laden on the market.
    It's your right not to care, but there is no other product on the market right now with all of the features of the Treo.

    Re CDMA: I thought they were developing a CDMA version
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by heberman
    My earbud headset that came with the Treo has a little button on it. I assume it is a mute button, but I haven't tested it. If it is, then the Treo has the Mute feature also, so long as you are using the headset.
    It's not for muting, it's only to pick up, hang up, or juggle calls.
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by heberman
    My earbud headset that came with the Treo has a little button on it. I assume it is a mute button, but I haven't tested it. If it is, then the Treo has the Mute feature also, so long as you are using the headset.
    Er, actually, that button picks up the phone when it rings and hangs up during a call..
  16. #16  
    ...and just because we're comparing PalmOS phones to PPC phones, the Palm vs. PPC debate is still..

    :yawn:
  17. #17  
    Oh, I didn't know that the button was for that - cool. That's actually more useful than a mute button! I suppose I should read the manual sometime. :-)
  18. #18  
    I have recently made the big migration from an Ipaq PocketPC and Nokia 8290 for wireless data needs to the Treo. I have never owned a Palm device before now. I've been using Windows CE going back to an NEC MobilePro 750C clamshell device. While I do miss color and multi-tasking, I could not be more pleased with the Treo for my personal applications. I love carrying one device and look forward to the availability of GPRS later this year. Its been an interesting learning curve but I find myself very, very content with a solution that works wonderfully for me. Thanks Handspring!
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by RedSoxPDAer
    Yeah, some will complain how complex the OS is. Well most older folks complain how complicated their VCR and 'traditional' cell phone are, but I have no such complaints. My point is that modern, forward-looking devices are usually a bit complicated at the onset[/B]
    Originally posted by RedSoxPDAer Also, I am not a fan of GSM. In my opinion, CDMA will always hold the upper hand over GSM in the U.S.. CDMA has giants SprintPCS and Verizon Wireless behind it, and Nextel soon. It has a proven superior call quality and coverage than GSM. [/B]
    Mmmm isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

    Back to the original topic (which I agree is in the right location):
    There are ver few devices that compare to the treo:
    -Nokia 9001
    -HP Jordana 928 WDA.

    If you compare these 3 devices I think the treo is the best option for a lot of users.
    It is back to the big old Epoc vs PPC vs PalmOS discussion....
    PalmOS is small, elegant and has a million FREE application
    PPC has great Multimedia capabilities but is big and bulky. (and not availble)
    Epoc is the odd one out with a dying OS and the 9001 has no touchscreen and is overpriced.

    None of these products are perfect so you would have to find the one you like first...
    For me that would be the Treo 270.... and its damn hard to resist the pull of the Treo 180...

    But you are allowed a different opinion, just dont try to use bogus arguments to convince others you are right...
    Like said before you are comparing apples with pears...
    It's the whole package that counts...

    For me the Treo is the winner, you are dissapointed with the treo, but what alternative do you give?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  20. #20  
    P.s. WAP browsing and SMS-ing on a cell phone compared to SMSing and browsing on a treo is like watching a movie on VHS on a smallscreen in stereo compared to watching that movie on DVD with DTS on a widescreen... you both see the movie, but the experience is totally different..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions