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  1.    #21  
    How innovative is the Treo? It won't be released (at the earliest) Spring 2002. There are already several good cell phones based on the Palm OS and more units will likely be released in the next few months.

    Without the springboard module, there will likely be little to distinguish the Treo from these other units. Agreed they are heading into a market that will definitely be on the upswing and booming in the next couple of years but they are hardly on the technology frontier anymore.

    Think about it, the first Visor owners bought it because it offered the possibility of expansion (and was less expensive). They were on the forefront. Prism owners bought in because they had improved upon Palm's color and still kept the lure of the Springboard going.

    Now where is Handspring, they have become another "me too" company.
    No more rhymes...and this time I mean it!
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    Can you name some off the extra's of OS4?
    Check this link for a nice doc on Palms web site:
    http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/docs/palmos40/

    Here is the section of the Programmers reference that references the function calls for the changes:
    http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/docs/...dx.html#916143

    And for completeness, here is the fluff that Palm tells consumers: http://www.palm.com/software/palmos4.html
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by yardie
    Bradhaak. I can't belive you don't find the Treo innovative. This is the smallest Palm OS PDA/Phone combo the world have seen. Surely it tskes innovation to cram all that stuff into that little package....
    No, I don't. That is just good engineering. There are no signifigant new features on the Treo. I can buy a small screen Palm (m100, m105, m125). I can buy a rechargeable Palm (the list is huge). I can buy a thumb input device(BlackBerry or SnapNType). I can buy a Palm OS with a phone (Visor already made on along with various other companies).

    Yes this is the first device that has all of these features, but how is that innovative. Except for the size, you could literally take a Plat (or Pro if you are a stickler for rechargeables), add a VisorPhone - you have a larger Treo 180G.

    Oh you wanted the keyboard? Use aSnapNType keyboard - You have a Treo 180.

    Oh you wanted color? Switch to a Prism and you have a Treo 270.

    The only difference here is size. This is evolutionary, not revolutionary.
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by george_vc
    I think the Treo has 3.5.4H. Handspring is building their own support into the OS. I think people get bugged because the "number" is smaller than OS 4. But the feature support is there. USB, COLOR, Wireless, etc. Don't know about security.
    Sorry to break the news, but the features are just not there. HandSpring (and its user base) is being left behind.

    I am definitely a HandSpring supporter. I have bought a copy of every model that they have made until the lame Neo and Pro. But the truth is that they just aren't developing leading Edge ( ) products anymore.

    This thread has been full of people discussing the HandSpring version of Palm OS and saying "I think" this, or "I heard" that. There hasn't been one shred of hard information saying that HandSpring has even touched the OS since last winter before the Edge came out.

    One sign that they haven't revved it is the version number. It is the same on the Treo as it is on the Platinum (3.5.2H). The Edge, Neo and Pro actually have a newer version (3.5.2.H3).

    The idea that HandSpring is adding new features and not revving the version number is absolutely ridiculous. Version numbers track changes fixes and enhancements. In terms of production and support logistics, you have to rev the version number when you rev the code.

    If HS were to add the OS 4 feature set, they would call the new version "OS 4". Software looks for features based on version number. If the version number is too low, the feature isn't there. Besides, don't you think that it would be easier just to take the code drop from Palm and have the new features already integrated?

    The Edge OS was relased to manufacturing months before Pam OS 4 was completed. For it to have the same feature set would be a fairly cool trick.

    Face it, units that use HandSpring OS 3.5.2H are a generation old now and without the ability to upgrade, they are just moving further and further behind. When the PDA in question is not even in production yet, this is especially sad.
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by bradhaak

    Check this link for a nice doc on Palms web site:
    http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/docs/palmos40/

    Here is the section of the Programmers reference that references the function calls for the changes:
    http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/docs/...dx.html#916143

    And for completeness, here is the fluff that Palm tells consumers: http://www.palm.com/software/palmos4.html
    thanx!
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  6. #26  
    I've played with the Palm 505. And I don't see any big deal here. I prefer Handspring's OS additions. CityTime I use all of the time, advanced calculators, and USB support. What's the big feature I'm missing by not having OS 4. By the time I need a new OS I will need a new PDA anyway with more advanced "hardware" features that are supported by a new OS.
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by george_vc
    I've played with the Palm 505. And I don't see any big deal here. I prefer Handspring's OS additions. CityTime I use all of the time, advanced calculators, and USB support. What's the big feature I'm missing by not having OS 4. By the time I need a new OS I will need a new PDA anyway with more advanced "hardware" features that are supported by a new OS.
    But these aren't OS enhancements. They're licensed software. CityTime with honest-to-God OS integration would change the system clock automatically for daylight savings time, etc.

    I agree that "by the time [you] need a new OS [you] will need a new PDA anyway..." The point is, it won't be a HS product. I entirely agree that flash RAM isn't a necessity. But only when the device has the latest OS burned into ROM.

    People seem to think that means their current devices lose functionality. I don't know where this impression comes from. Short of removing the screen from your current device, there isn't much you can do to decrease its functionality. They just have no hope for future functionality. I have no problem with the feature set of OS 3.5.2Hx. I am rather...intrigued...at the attitude implicit in HS's refusal to adopt OS4. They did re-license their contract with Palm, did they not? For something like 5 years? And they don't use it? It's almost a "I don't use a watch because I tell time from the sun well enough" mentality.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  8. #28  
    I wonder if it would cost HS more $ to put OS 4 on their devices in lisence fees, than it would their own

    Anyway, here is a clip from HS web site on this subject. ----- >

    What's the difference between Palm OS 3.5 on my Handspring Visor handheld and Palm OS 4.0 on Palm devices?

    Most of the major features of Palm OS 4.0 for Palm devices are already included in Handspring's version of Palm OS 3.5. These features include:

    Native USB synchronization
    16-bit color support
    Expansion card support
    Motorola DragonBall VZ processor support
    Virtual File System (VFS) became available on Palm OS 4.0 as a single API for developers using external memory on handhelds. The good news is, you can use VFS on all Visor handhelds with the help of third-party utilities. Learn how to put VFS capabilities on your Handspring handheld in our article Can I run applications using VFS on a Visor handheld? (the answer is yes).

    Other differences with Palm's Palm OS 4.0 were primarily implemented to support future Palm hardware, such as telephony support and vibrating alarm support. With Handspring units, any necessary utilities for these features are included with the Springboard modules available exclusively for Visor handhelds.

    Be sure to check out Handspring's updates, utilities and patches for the latest enhancements to your Visor handheld.

    As a side note, did you know that OS version plays a relatively small role on handhelds? It's true. Most features of a new handheld OS involve minor enhancements. If you spot a cool feature on any other handheld out there, it's likely that somebody has written a Palm OS application that does nearly the same thing on your Visor handheld.

    The Internet is full of software applications, extensions and hacks which increase your handheld's versatility. See our third-party software section for thousands of downloadable applications.
  9. #29  
    george_vc - What do you expect them to say?

    Maybe something like this - "Because of the massive layoffs that we have recently undergone, HandSpring no longer has the manpower or financial resources to complete the integration of the latest versions of Palm OS while developing new unimaginative and derivative products. Instead we have decided to extend our previous corporate policy of not providing new OS versions on exisiting products to providing the same obsolete system software for future products. In this way our existing customer base won't notice the lack of support and HandSpring will lose slightly less money in ensuing quarters."

    Seriously, all you have to do is read the OS4 feature set from the links posted above to know that this is typical marketing speak. Their statement is akin to the statement that was on their website for years (it may still be), about OS updates being able to be provided by SpringBoard. Yes, they could be but HS has never had any intention of doing so. This misinformation just follows the same vein.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    ...about OS updates being able to be provided by SpringBoard...
    We understood the comment differently, then. The comment is referring to upgrading the OS by allowing it to play mp3's, take digital photos, add more memory, cell phone capabilities, GPS capabilities. etc. I was never under the impression that my 3.1 VDX would ever run anything higher. Some wishful thinkers were, no doubt.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson

    We understood the comment differently, then. The comment is referring to upgrading the OS by allowing it to play mp3's, take digital photos, add more memory, cell phone capabilities, GPS capabilities. etc. I was never under the impression that my 3.1 VDX would ever run anything higher. Some wishful thinkers were, no doubt.
    Here is the original quote from HandSprings website. The quote is no longer there.

    Q. What about a Flash OS?
    A. The Handspring Visor Deluxe supports upgrades to the operating system (OS) via Springboard modules and software patches. We do not use "flash" memory to store the OS for several reasons: 1) we are fully upradeable via Springboard modules and software patches, 2) the vast majority of users will never need to completely rewrite the entire OS in memory, 3) "flash" memory is more costly and complex than "read-only memory" (ROM). We continually evaluate the best technologies for our products and will include those that provide clear benefits to our customers. To see the current differences in the built-in Visor OS and the Palm OS¨ release.
    This certainly sounds like they are talking about real updates to the OS. Now they say that the OS is not upgradeable. I guess they got tired of people asking when they would live up to their commitments.
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by bradhaak

    Sorry to break the news, but the features are just not there. HandSpring (and its user base) is being left behind.

    Face it, units that use HandSpring OS 3.5.2H are a generation old now and without the ability to upgrade, they are just moving further and further behind. When the PDA in question is not even in production yet, this is especially sad.
    There seems to be a lots of fluff in your claims. I'm still not seeing the big features I'm missing between. 3.5.2H and 4.0 that I can't live without.
  13. mhc48#CB's Avatar
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    #33  
    Originally posted by bradhaak


    Another side of the issue is the small developer. There are lierally hundreds, if not thousands of small, independent developers for every large corporate developer. They generally write software for the hardware that they own and want to take advantage of any features that they can. They also tend to have up-to-date hardware and update to the latest OS version. As new versions of the OS proliferate, they will be writing more and more software that just won't work without an up-to-date feature set.
    Okay, but most of us technolust-crazed contributors to these boards will also buy --or will want to buy as soon as we can afford it-- the newest most feature laden Handspring too.

    So even if next Fall Palm has units running OS 5.5, if the next Handspring Color Neo Treo Woweo does (as usual) more than the Palm unit, but the Neo Treo Woweo model is only running OS 5.1 who cares? It's the features consumers want
    -Michael-
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by MHCohn


    Okay, but most of us technolust-crazed contributors to these boards will also buy --or will want to buy as soon as we can afford it-- the newest most feature laden Handspring too.

    So even if next Fall Palm has units running OS 5.5, if the next Handspring Color Neo Treo Woweo does (as usual) more than the Palm unit, but the Neo Treo Woweo model is only running OS 5.1 who cares? It's the features consumers want
    Consumers don't know what features they need until after they buy the product or until there is software that won't run on their unit because they don't have the feature. If you can honestly say that there will never be new features that you will need after you buy a PDA, then a non-upgradeable, obsolete OS is perfect for you. If you like to stay on the leading edge as you say you do, then why would you buy something that was out of date when introduced.

    That is the whole point of this thread - not the realative merits of Palm OS 4.0 vs 3.5.

    I'm done. I have made my points and nobody has been able to refute any facts with anything besides opinion and misinformation.

    Now I have other windmills to fight.
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by bradhaak
    This certainly sounds like they are talking about real updates to the OS. Now they say that the OS is not upgradeable. I guess they got tired of people asking when they would live up to their commitments.
    Thanks for the original quote. After re-reading it, I stand by my original interpretation. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  16. #36  
    I just thought of 1 thing nobody mentioned yet...
    Will the new cellphone functionality work with OS4.0?

    My guess is, it would not... looks like pretty HS specific stuff to me...

    If so flash would be pointless...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  17. utz
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    #37  
    When it comes down to it Handspring is in the business to make money, not to produce toys for us geeks. So it is in their best interest to appeal to a wide audience, and to keep costs down.

    They may have renewed their license, but you can be sure that it still costs more per device to put in 4.0, as opposed to 3.5. So as a business designed to make money Handspring has to ask themselves, "Are the added features of 4.0 worth the extra costs to our Largest customer base (not us geeks) ?" The obvious answer is no. Secondly, they must then ask the same question again about Flash. The answer is no, it is not worth the money to make millions of devices with Flash, when only thousands will use the Falsh. They may loose some business, but the money saved will be much greater.

    So be glad that Handspring is smart, and will be around for a long time. They will continue to produce devices that offer a compelling total package to the majority of customers. Don't be suprised when the next device still doesn't have Flash.
    Utz -- (Pronounced 'ootz', it means good, happy, etc. in the Mayan language of Cakchiquel)
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