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  1.    #1  
    This is with reference to the Pre (of-course) but probably applies to most other Palm's products...

    I'm curious why Palm gets "married" to some ***** (carrier) when they announce a new product. After the initial honeymoon they start to (hesitatingly) flirt with other markets - if you know what I mean. Contrast this with HTC (or LG or Samsung) or the other phone manufacturers, who sell through every channel possible. Despite this, these companies are always on the edge (Motorola, Siemens...), in danger of going bankrupt. Especially Motorola, which had this great thing going with its RAZR series. Even ignoring the other niche player - RIM - this kind of thing doesn't make sense.

    Then there is this whole issue of their presence in India...

    They have NO advertising, NO marketing, NO retail presence, NO service network, but they have a website with a list of addresses. Either they are there or not, but why the half-hearted attempt? I'm trying to buy a case and stylus for my wife's Centro for several months. From the prices, one would think they are made of Platinum - just as rare and just as expensive.

    And their prices have no basis in reality ("How much does this Treo 750 cost?" Ans: "One Million Rupees + Taxes." Exaggerating slightly here, but contrast this with the Nokia... or HTC... or Samsung... or LG...)

    This, despite the fact that there was/is so much PalmOS development going on here (don't know about the Pre). All the development devices (I think) are from the grey market of smuggled inside. I mean everything about what they are doing here appears s*r*w*d-up.

    The point is, Palm must have a lot of smart people to be able to continuously re-invent themselves and bring us exciting technology, but they appear to be limiting themselves by doing some bizarre things (at least according to my point-of-view).

    - mvk
  2. #2  
    Very hard to compare moto and siemens to palm... HTC, maybe... they are setup differently due to the way they do business...

    Anyway, what ***** carrier are you speaking? I've not seen palm marry to an ***** carrier with the pre or pro.

    I guess I don't fully understand your post...

    Most of the products I see on palm's site are inflated... I would not purchase there unless they had a sale.

    Try eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Anyway, what ***** carrier are you speaking? I've not seen palm marry to an ***** carrier with the pre or pro.
    I meant that having an exclusivity deal with (say) Sprint immediately cuts out ALL the other sales channels. Even in the case of GSM variants, going with AT&T makes even less sense; they not only cut out other carriers, but the entire world market for GSM phones.

    ...or I'm missing something very important. Do the carriers promise a minimum quantity? That's very unlikely though.
  4. #4  
    The way the business is run in USA requires having a carrier sell the product to end users, thus each carrier can install their crapware on the device and call it exclusive. Carriers also have a lot of say on what is and is not included.

    As to marketing in India, there is not much marketing in the US either, mostly viral campaigns and social networks. Ads and the like are paid for, at least in part, by the carrier.
  5. haydur's Avatar
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    #5  
    Like the poster above said, things are different in the US. We pay a subsidized price for the phone because carrier have two-year contract locks. So imagine paying for a full-price phone AND then getting locked in to a service for two years... would you do that? (Actually, some people do do that, but you have to eBay your subsidized phone to make some of your full-priced phone's cost back. But most times it's just not worth it.) So consumers have almost no incentive to buy a non-subsidized phone.

    Anyway, are Smartphones a big market in India? Nokia and Samsung are big there probably because they made a gajillion different dumb and cheap phones. Palm only makes Smartphones, which tend to be a lot more expensive.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by haydur View Post
    Anyway, are Smartphones a big market in India? Nokia and Samsung are big there probably because they made a gajillion different dumb and cheap phones. Palm only makes Smartphones, which tend to be a lot more expensive.
    I suspect that the smartphone market (numbers) in India is about the same as that in the US... consider that India has 4-5 times the US population. Anytime you are in a public place, you do see a considerable number of smartphones (includes Nokias, BBs, WinMobiles and occassionally Treo's). Consider also that many people carry more than one phone, usually two.
  7. #7  
    Interesting. Why do people carry several phones?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by haydur View Post
    Like the poster above said, things are different in the US. We pay a subsidized price for the phone because carrier have two-year contract locks. So imagine paying for a full-price phone AND then getting locked in to a service for two years... would you do that? (Actually, some people do do that, but you have to eBay your subsidized phone to make some of your full-priced phone's cost back. But most times it's just not worth it.) So consumers have almost no incentive to buy a non-subsidized phone.

    Anyway, are Smartphones a big market in India? Nokia and Samsung are big there probably because they made a gajillion different dumb and cheap phones. Palm only makes Smartphones, which tend to be a lot more expensive.
    HUH??? Nokia doesn't make smartphones??? Symbian anyone?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    This is with reference to the Pre (of-course) but probably applies to most other Palm's products...

    I'm curious why Palm gets "married" to some ***** (carrier) when they announce a new product. After the initial honeymoon they start to (hesitatingly) flirt with other markets - if you know what I mean. Contrast this with HTC (or LG or Samsung) or the other phone manufacturers, who sell through every channel possible. Despite this, these companies are always on the edge (Motorola, Siemens...), in danger of going bankrupt. Especially Motorola, which had this great thing going with its RAZR series. Even ignoring the other niche player - RIM - this kind of thing doesn't make sense.

    Then there is this whole issue of their presence in India...

    They have NO advertising, NO marketing, NO retail presence, NO service network, but they have a website with a list of addresses. Either they are there or not, but why the half-hearted attempt? I'm trying to buy a case and stylus for my wife's Centro for several months. From the prices, one would think they are made of Platinum - just as rare and just as expensive.

    And their prices have no basis in reality ("How much does this Treo 750 cost?" Ans: "One Million Rupees + Taxes." Exaggerating slightly here, but contrast this with the Nokia... or HTC... or Samsung... or LG...)

    This, despite the fact that there was/is so much PalmOS development going on here (don't know about the Pre). All the development devices (I think) are from the grey market of smuggled inside. I mean everything about what they are doing here appears s*r*w*d-up.

    The point is, Palm must have a lot of smart people to be able to continuously re-invent themselves and bring us exciting technology, but they appear to be limiting themselves by doing some bizarre things (at least according to my point-of-view).

    - mvk
    Actually, I see this happen in the US quite a bit...a carrier will get exclusive rights to a phone for a certain amount of time, then the manufacturer will begin to filter the handset through other carriers (if they are interested in it). Before I heard about the Pre, I was hoping that the iphone would come to Sprint.
    Last edited by Hoffman109; 04/05/2009 at 05:28 PM.
  10. #10  
    Same could be said for the iPhone. I'm sure if it was on Sprint, and with their SE plans, there would be lines for weeks
    Nokia American Idol Phone< Motorola RAZR<Nokia Flip Phone<Sidekick Slide<Palm Centro<HTC Snap

    Currently Enjoying: Palm Pixi
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmHead View Post
    Interesting. Why do people carry several phones?
    I can think of many reasons for this:
    1. One for work and one for personal use.
    2. Use on two different networks, to take advantage of the best plan features.
    3. Going by the way people keep yackking on phones, they simply receive or make too many calls; and there are only so many hours in a day. And people, fortunately, have two ears!!!
    4. Since both CDMA and GSM are available, maybe on for each. Some swear CDMA has better voice quality and is less expensive too, but the GSM network is more widespread.
    5. The large density in cities sometimes causes congestion. At least till a couple of years ago it was near impossible to make a call during peak times (say, 6:00PM to 8:00PM).
    6. Also, till a few years ago, roaming charges where super high and it was more economical to have phones on multiple networks.
    7. And don't forget that old reason - to show off a bit.

    All this, because carriers are too lazy (or churlish) to allow registering the same SIM on multiple networks.
  12. #12  
    Thanks for the explanation on the multiple phones. Always interesting to learn how others do things. Here in South Florida (also a show off hotspot) people used to always be on their phone. You couldn't eat out without hearing more ringtones than you could imagine. And many people wore bluetooth headsets. Now it's unusual to see a bluetooth and although it's still common to see people on their phone in their car, it's not so common in restaurants and other public places. I think texting has replaced a lot of calls.

    Back to your original points, I agree about Palm's sites for other countries. Pretty lame. The site for the US has gotten better. In the past it always left me wanting more -- more of a relationship, more information, easier to use site. I enjoy the product though.

    I hope with the Pre they market it effectively.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmHead View Post
    Always interesting to learn how others do things.
    I forgot to mention the most important reason: Mobile phones and service are unbelievably cheap in India. The cheapest phone probably costs around INR 500 (10 USD) and the basic limited pre-paid plan is around INR 50 (1 USD). It's all almost disposable, even by our economic standards.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    I forgot to mention the most important reason: Mobile phones and service are unbelievably cheap in India. The cheapest phone probably costs around INR 500 (10 USD) and the basic limited pre-paid plan is around INR 50 (1 USD). It's all almost disposable, even by our economic standards.

    Wow. Thats great (price)...

    Is that voice as well as data? What kind of coverage do you get (region, national, etc). Do most carriers have those contracts, or are you free to come and go as you please?
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilduckster View Post
    Wow. Thats great (price)...

    Is that voice as well as data? What kind of coverage do you get (region, national, etc). Do most carriers have those contracts, or are you free to come and go as you please?
    Of-course it's only voice services. Data services (GPRS/ EDGE) are cheap as well, starting 200 INR (4 USD) per month for an UNLIMITED plan from at least one carrier. I've not come across a plan where one gets stuck with it for any definite period of time. Almost all carriers have full coverage across the country including the remotest villages, or allow roaming on other networks if they haven't.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    This is with reference to the Pre (of-course) but probably applies to most other Palm's products...

    I'm curious why Palm gets "married" to some ***** (carrier) when they announce a new product. After the initial honeymoon they start to (hesitatingly) flirt with other markets - if you know what I mean. Contrast this with HTC (or LG or Samsung) or the other phone manufacturers, who sell through every channel possible. Despite this, these companies are always on the edge (Motorola, Siemens...), in danger of going bankrupt. Especially Motorola, which had this great thing going with its RAZR series. Even ignoring the other niche player - RIM - this kind of thing doesn't make sense.

    Then there is this whole issue of their presence in India...

    They have NO advertising, NO marketing, NO retail presence, NO service network, but they have a website with a list of addresses. Either they are there or not, but why the half-hearted attempt? I'm trying to buy a case and stylus for my wife's Centro for several months. From the prices, one would think they are made of Platinum - just as rare and just as expensive.

    And their prices have no basis in reality ("How much does this Treo 750 cost?" Ans: "One Million Rupees + Taxes." Exaggerating slightly here, but contrast this with the Nokia... or HTC... or Samsung... or LG...)

    This, despite the fact that there was/is so much PalmOS development going on here (don't know about the Pre). All the development devices (I think) are from the grey market of smuggled inside. I mean everything about what they are doing here appears s*r*w*d-up.

    The point is, Palm must have a lot of smart people to be able to continuously re-invent themselves and bring us exciting technology, but they appear to be limiting themselves by doing some bizarre things (at least according to my point-of-view).

    - mvk
    The main thing with Palm as it is with every other company is money. Sprint subsidizes Treos and now the Pre so they won't cost much for consumers while still earning Palm money. The other companies you mention: LG, Samsung, and Motorola (Moto's financial problems are relatively recent) are much bigger than Palm and can afford to push their handsets into every nook an cranny. And yet, we still see many hot handsets which never see the light of day in a certain country because their maker couldn't find a carrier for it (Samsung is particularly notorious for announcing and abandoning handsets). Apple did the same thing that Palm is doing now a few years ago when they hooked up with a second tier carrier which was desperate enough to let them do whatever they wanted with their new phone. Today, boosted by the iPhone, AT&T is a top carrier and Sprint is in the dumps. Who knows? If the Pre is a hit, suddenly Sprint won't look like such a loser company. AT&T/Cingular wasn't particularly well regarded before the iPhone.

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