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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    But on the other hand how hard would it have been to have backwards compatibility?

    Colligan has been quoted in the past 6mos saying that it will have POS compatibility. Now for it not to is an extreme disappointment.

    Signed Apps/Palm Support

    I think that's it.

    If they provided backwards compatibility, then issues would be theirs to resolve.

    If they provided an Emulator, then again, issues would be theirs to resolve.

    This way they are in the clear.

    Hello Palm,
    My Pre is Crashing.

    Dear Customer,
    Are all the Apps on your Pre Signed?
    Just call me Berd.
  2. cgk
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    #22  
    That makes sense "those Palm OS crashed my device" - "what's that to do with us?"
  3. pump142's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    almost all applications are compatible in windows 95 onward -- most could work even in vista -- even some DOS could likely be run via a dos window
    but at what point do you stop funding obselecense and put the money toward moving forward?
    M505 -> M515 -> Kyo6035 -> Kyo 7135 -> Treo 600 ->Treo 650 -> Treo 700P -> Treo 700 WX -> Samsung Saga VZW
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    almost all applications are compatible in windows 95 onward -- most could work even in vista -- even some DOS could likely be run via a dos window
    I don't blame them for not saddling themselves with the handicap of compatibility, but I think that they could have looked at emulation while they had the expertise available. Maybe they could not afford it?
  5. cgk
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    #25  
    Windows 95 isn't really the best analogue because to a large extent a PC is still a PC.

    Palm OS was designed for nomadic computing, it wasn't designed for mobile computing or to drive a phone.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Actually, they couldn't have. In 2002, shortly after the release of OS5, Palm spun off their software section into a separate company, PalmSource. The goal of this was to keep things more fair for other hardware partners to license the platform (obviously didn't work.) So, PalmSource wrote the software, and PalmOne, as they were called at the time, made the hardware. Basically, they could make small modifications but nothing of the scale you're talking about.

    In 2004, Palmsource revealed Cobalt, which was to be Palm OS6. Obviously it was pretty flawed from the get-go because in addition to other limitations, it didn't even include libraries for radios, so that work would've had to be done by whoever was using it.

    In 2006 I believe it was, Access bought PalmSource and decided to work on a future Linux based OS. Later that year, Palm bought perpetual rights to license and modify Garnet (OS5), but they too had already decided that their future platform would be Linux based.

    And you act like this is unheard of to entirely switch over systems. Microsoft switched from DOS to Windows way back when. Apple scrapped everything and started from scratch with OS X. Palm decided this was their time to do the same thing, and personally, I think they were right.
    great post - thank u
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  7. Rusty J's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Windows 95 isn't really the best analogue because to a large extent a PC is still a PC.

    Palm OS was designed for nomadic computing, it wasn't designed for mobile computing or to drive a phone.
    Pretty much. It started out as an OS for electronic day-planners running on slow processors with monochrome displays, and was patched and hacked to handle everything from memory cards to cell phone radio modules.

    OS5 was for the most part OS4 running in emulation on much faster processors.
    -Rusty
    Blackjack, Tilt; Treo 90, 270-680; Palm Vx, i705, T|T3, iQue 3200; Nokia N800, E71
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'm sorry,
    I meant GSM 3G
    or 3.5G (HSDPA)
    On 3G Networks, the phone needs to be capable to handle multiple connections at same time. PalmOS can't handle it.
  9. #29  
    ... and needs to keep connection active during phone calls...
  10. #30  
    Though noone really cares much if you ask me. I ask my wife if that multiple connection thing ever annoyed her. She said "what?"

    It comes down to marketing. The iphone was that ever popular ipod, with a nice screen and a powerful slick web browser.

    Those really griping about palm OS are those that apple and now palm aren't really aiming for.

    I gave my old centro to a niece (who since got something else that teenie boppers crave..some kind of slideout texting phone) and now to my sister. Both, never having owned a smartphone, are still amazed at what a palm centro can do.

    It's all perspective. I see the palm OS and its old when i know what others can do and what it looks like doing it. The palm OS still did what i needed it to do..i just wanted better experience via the iphone.

    Plus i would argue that a lot of people are still ignorant of what a palm centro CAN do. Weak marketing.

    Apple went to town on commercials showing what their phone could do. Palm markets "multitasking" and santa claus but doesn't show what it can do.

    My sister said about the centro "wow, it plays music? cool" Heck, to many, the iphone was the first phone they heard of that could put the "internet in your pocket"

    The iphone opened up the smartphone market IMO. It's like owning a dvr. Once you use something like that, you don't go back. But you might explore other options.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    But on the other hand how hard would it have been to have backwards compatibility?

    Colligan has been quoted in the past 6mos saying that it will have POS compatibility. Now for it not to is an extreme disappointment.
    It would require money, time, support resources and development resources.

    Time - Palm is so behind the curve (first WiFi, BT, 3G phone in 2008!) that they can not afford to wait much longer to enter fresh product into the market. Emulator development would require a significant investment of time.

    Money - Another think Palm has little of...they have been losing money for a little while now.

    Support / Development Resources- Which gets back to money. They probably don't need to divide their resource on developing the new os and an emulator for the old one. They would be best served by just focusing on the new os.

    If you don't think it would be hard, why don't you start working on an emulator?
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    The palm OS still did what i needed it to do..i just wanted better experience via the iphone.
    And it does for many current Palm OS users. The problem is it could not handle what the lastest and upcoming generations of phones can handle (3.5G, real multitasking, multiple built in radios). You can't grow if you only do the things that you can currently do.

    iPhone jumped ahead of the Palm OS in revenue and relavance. Palm wants to be relavant again and the Palm OS just isn't going to cut the mustard to get them there.
    Last edited by pgh1969pa; 01/18/2009 at 01:27 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdhntr23 View Post
    Colligan has been quoted in the past 6mos saying that it will have POS compatibility.
    Also, do you have any source for that? The only time Colligan has ever said it'd be compatible with old applications was April 2007.

    http://blog.treonauts.com/2007/04/palm_working_on.html

    A lot has changed since then, including the release of the original iPhone, the announcement of the Foleo, Elevation Partners' partial buyout, Jon Rubinstein's hiring, the cancellation of the Foleo, etc etc.
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Also, do you have any source for that? The only time Colligan has ever said it'd be compatible with old applications was April 2007.

    http://blog.treonauts.com/2007/04/palm_working_on.html

    A lot has changed since then, including the release of the original iPhone, the announcement of the Foleo, Elevation Partners' partial buyout, Jon Rubinstein's hiring, the cancellation of the Foleo, etc etc.
    Bingo - the roadmap with the legacy support happens before Elevation Partners sink $450 million into the company and Joe Rubinstein comes on-board - and what's the first thing Joe does?

    Rubinstein loved the new operating system and signed on. He immediately decided on a radical course—killing off almost all of Palm's products and projects except for a couple of "transitional" devices that could keep sales coming in while engineers toiled away on Nova. Rubinstein brought in a slew of new executives, replacing all of the executives in engineering and much of the engineering staff.

    This crash course of paring the company back to its core is exactly what Apple did a decade ago. Jobs and his team killed off dozens of products, leaving Apple with only four things to sell: two laptops and two desktop PCs.

    Then they put a huge amount of effort into developing a new operating system, called OS X, which would become Apple's key product in the decade to come. Now, at Palm, "we're using the exact same playbook," Rubinstein says.
    http://www.newsweek.com/id/178536/page/2

    That's also why I think you have such a disconnect between old palm and new palm - people who thought this was a big deal have gone. There is a concept in organisational management theory about organisational memory - the people in the corporation form a large part of it's "memory" (along with documents, databases etc) - when you fire off a large element of those people, the corporation "forgets" things...
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    almost all applications are compatible in windows 95 onward -- most could work even in vista -- even some DOS could likely be run via a dos window
    Yes but each subsequent version of Windows is based on a previous one, even in the case of Vista, what Palm has done is to write a completely new OS from the ground up. Bit like switching from running Windows XP to Linux, everything is different.

    Also on a PC you're not limited in the same way with storage space, memory and processing power.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by TazUk View Post
    Yes but each subsequent version of Windows is based on a previous one, even in the case of Vista,
    Not true, Windows NT was a completely new code base. It did look like Windows 3.1 (and then Windows 95) but under the covers it was completely new.
  17. #37  
    I think there is a large and loyal Palm following around the world that is not very vocal, but has a significant presence that normal marketing surveys cannot detect. I was one of the loyal followers, from the Palm Pilot all the way to the Treo 650, I was a Palm evangilist. Even when the IPhone was released, I dismissed it as just eye candy for the masses - the bubble gum crowd. Then, I upgraded to the Treo 755P, and my foundation began to shake. I saw a device that was put together without any thought or passion. Hardware problems galore, software patches that did not address the problems, support site in denial about any problems or compatibility, and finally, no new features. After 10 years of marriage, my eyes started to wander. I stopped buying any accessories and software for my 755P because I knew this relationship will not last. I know the lost of my purchasing dollar is no big deal, but I don't think I'm the only one in this boat.

    Unfortunately, a long history of bad decisions (and indecisions) and lack of leadership took the company from a market leader to a company that was not even mentioned in any articles about smartphones. I think the new investors in Palm sees that they still had a loyal following that is on the fence, much like myself. I am willing to put up with my 755P and give Palm one more chance. Let's see if the Pre and WebOs can make this the come-back story of this decade.
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