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  1. jas o's Avatar
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       #1  
    http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/22/e...-a-year-later/

    It was kind of interesting to look at where Palm was a year ago and where they are now.
  2. #2  
    I thought he was a bit of an ***** this time around..although he made a few good points already mentioned numerous times by others.

    What i didn't agree with:

    1. Get thin. Umm..get bent. Palm probably just came out with the thinnest WM phone. Besides, enough with the thin crap..

    2. Palm fans took a huge step back on the Centro, which brought us down to an eye-straining ~2.2-inches. And the centro was a treo chopped in size which helped sell it.
    We're glad the Pro's screen is no longer recessed (we hear it ain't easy to do a flush resistive touchscreen), but it's still the same display, you know? No, its not, it's higher resolution than previous.

    3. And don't even get me started on the fact that you don't seem to be an inch closer to a sliding QWERTY. Really, why not do one? Because palm isn't retarded. You want thin..and now you want a slider..geez. Go to white castle or something..

    4. The Centro seems more toy than smartphone Umm..ok. Then the iphone must really seem toyish..lol.
    the 800w kind of reminds us of a smiling clown in makeup huh?
    the Pro ironically shares the same keyboard and design cues as the lowest-end device in the lineup LOL ..reaching aren't we?

    5. Think about adding some storage buy a card and shut up. This was stupid then too.

    6. Put the kibosh on the Centro / Gandolf / Treo 800p says the little engadget man..lol Centro kept palm from going way under as opposed to a little under.

    7. Picking up the Android mantle still seems like a great short-term move No, it really isn't..

    Can't argue with some of the other points. But i can't help feeling if palm had made this writer the CEO a year ago, then palm wouldn't be around. No centro. And he'd been staring at the android simulator thinking up leet gphones (thin and with sliders of course) while the company went down the tubes..lol
    Last edited by cardfan; 08/22/2008 at 09:11 PM.
  3. #3  
    I can't help feeling that all of the palm apologists in the smartphone space do little more with their criticisms than encourage palm to perpetuate their glacial pace of innovation and business development despite crushing competition.

    Why bother improving ourselves if we have so many fans essentially saying the slow pace is ok?

    Colligan and palm seem to have a sleeping disorder. They are always asleep at the wheel and in constant need of alarm clock wakeup calls from the likes of either rubenstein, engadget, etc.

    They can't make it on their own. This is not an acceptable state to be in as a publically traded company. They need what seems to be babysitters or "camp counselors" to keep then focused on their goals.

    They need new leadership altogether. Get rid of colligan and ALL the old crew, keep rubenstein and the newer staff while bringing fresh minds into the executive room.

    Colligan is a rah rah guy, not a successful ceo. he should be given a PRPRPR $position$ $vs$ $the$ $top$ $spot$ $to$ $a$ $fading$ $company$.

    Palm needs brain AND heart transplants. Desperately


    I thought ryan block hit the nails on the heads. Thank you Ryan for vocalizing the continuing frustrations of many in the palm community.
  4. #4  
    Yep, we want a THIN, qwerty (not centro type tho), slider phone running android that has to have a bigger screen and more resolution, but flushed..not recessed and has wifi, but doesn't look like a toy and has to be updated often and run great on a mac.

    He hit the nail
  5. #5  
    yep, we want status quo, nothing innovative, `cause why should we? Huge, massive bricks with outdated OS`s with frequent crashes and poor speakers, ancient browsing technology and scant memory `cause damn it, thats what makes for a true palm experience. WE know better, don`t we? Just look at all the success palm can boast about!! By George!! We know better than everybody else, never mind all the competition`s blinding success and all that

    Palm is the nail. Rimm and apple are the hammers. Enough said.

    Last edited by logmein; 08/22/2008 at 11:14 PM.
  6. #6  
    Why so serious? Nowhere did i say anything about wanting status quo. But Palm hasn't been that in the last year.

    While that was true a year ago, you have to remember palm was in the dumps after making a bunch of mistakes. Since then, they've had a successful Centro..not a massive brick and pretty innovative for palm. The 800w which added some features those users had been wanting. And now the Treo Pro whose stunning looks is gaining praise from all the site. Not bad for a company on the ropes..

    Sounds like you're living in the past still pondering the old palm OS. They've already said the new OS will be different. So what is it that you want? You can't rewrite the past..
  7. #7  


    There was nothing innovative about the centro. Same old OS. It was just a miniature treo shrunken down in size. Painfully small keyboard with a painfully small screen. What exactly was innovative about it?

    The treo 800w has some nice features onboard as palm FINALLY adds wifi and gps, but there is nothing innovative about the form factor. Its a bit boring in fact. The screen is lackluster as well. It doesnt have the wow effect that competitors have - ie. Blackberry bold`s 480x320 screen res, screaming fast 624 mhz processor, etc.

    The treo pro may be palm`s best phone to date, with very nice specs, unfortunately it does not come available with a contract with ATT, so we will see how a $550 phone fares in this recession, won`t we? Particularly when you have the likes of the bold and the iphone 3g standing at the forefront at cheaper prices. What do I want? Maybe some common sense and better product execution from palm. Thats all. Asking too much? I think not.

    Still living in the past? No, simply pointing out tendencies which I have yet to see corrected. Nova OS you say? We`ll see just how "different" that new OS turns out to be. They also said how revolutionary the foleo was going to be, and well, you saw what happened there.

    You cant rewrite the past, but you can certainly rewrite the list of names filling palm`s executive positions so that history doesnt repeat itself.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post


    There was nothing innovative about the centro. Same old OS. It was just a miniature treo shrunken down in size. Painfully small keyboard with a painfully small screen. What exactly was innovative about it?

    The treo 800w has some nice features onboard as palm FINALLY adds wifi and gps, but there is nothing innovative about the form factor. Its a bit boring in fact. The screen is lackluster as well. It doesnt have the wow effect that competitors have - ie. Blackberry bold`s 480x320 screen res, screaming fast 624 mhz processor, etc.

    The treo pro may be palm`s best phone to date, with very nice specs, unfortunately it does not come available with a contract with ATT, so we will see how a $550 phone fares in this recession, won`t we? Particularly when you have the likes of the bold and the iphone 3g standing at the forefront at cheaper prices. What do I want? Maybe some common sense and better product execution from palm. Thats all. Asking too much? I think not.

    Still living in the past? No, simply pointing out tendencies which I have yet to see corrected. Nova OS you say? We`ll see just how "different" that new OS turns out to be. They also said how revolutionary the foleo was going to be, and well, you saw what happened there.

    You cant rewrite the past, but you can certainly rewrite the list of names filling palm`s executive positions so that history doesnt repeat itself.
    I agree completely. A big part of the Centro's sales can be attributed to the attractive pricing from AT&T. Without that kind of subsidy a $550 phone needs to be pretty radical. Not radical for Palm, but radical for the industry. It's gotta have something special. Windows Mobile? Nope, that's not it. Android might be something to get excited about. Works for me! But then we're not going to see an Android Treo anytime soon.

    The complacency of Palm has gotten them into this mess. And at a time when the smart phone market has exploded! Replacing the whole lot of 'em at Palm would be a welcome change. Put Rubinstein in charge and have him round up a few of his former Apple cronies. Put Avi Tevanian in charge of software. Maybe some kind consultant deal with Johnathan Ive. But get that current crop of bums the heck out!
  9. #9  
    My sentiments exactly. A new palm roster is so very long overdue, and handing the reigns over to others who are more capable would without question result in welcome new changes. I second the idea of making Rubenstein the CEO. Tevanian at the helm in software is also an interesting possibility.
  10. #10  
    Lol
  11. #11  
    "Since then, they've had a successful Centro..not a massive brick and pretty innovative for palm."

    -cardfan


    ROFLMAO
    Last edited by logmein; 08/23/2008 at 10:19 PM.
  12. #12  
    ahhh..me thinks you be a troll. Funny, but i thought you were a palm OS user. The centro was innovative (for palm) i said. It's truth. It rejuvenated them a bit when the company was basically in the toilet ready to be flushed.

    You do remember people crying that the treo was a brick. You know..the one you use? What you've been crying about? So they come out and put the treo 755p in a smaller form factor that looked good (for palm) and turned out to be pretty popular. Just not with you apparently even though you don't like bricks.

    You can't see the screen? What are you..blind? The screen was made sharper by virtue of its slightly smaller size. The kb, while usable, sucks...i agree. More apps were included with the centro and it was a pretty good value for 99 as palm's most stable phone ever with palm os..

    Enough with this. A year ago, Palm was in deep. I didn't see em coming out with a Centro. That was a good move. Kept them going. The 800w i can't congratulate them much on as it took freaking forever, but alas..its out..it has the features those WM been wanting complete with a few bugs. It feels pretty damn great though in hand and typing on it. But you know what they say about looks. These are the morons out there (concerned about looks) that make palm compelled to keep putting the sucky centro kb on things.

    To continue down the WM line while they presumably work on Nova, they came out with the Treo Pro that you yourself have gushed about. I've already harped myself that it should be carried but as others pointed out, palm gets it out the door quicker by choosing to by pass it this time.

    Even the little engadget dude had to go edit his little bit of drivel as the Treo Pro became official but he wasn't one to let that get in the way

    But keep in mind, i was merely refuting engadget dude's piece as of now. A year ago, palm had problems. Here and now, they still do, but it's not nearly as dire. Things still heavily depend on Nova and what kind of device they settle on. And as i've said already, Palm needs to sell some WM Treos to see improvement...selling centros won't do it. The treo pro not being carried in the US is a worry so we'll see how that goes.
  13. #13  
    I think the Centro's keyboard is just fine. Then again I do have small hands-and the TreoPro is available in the US-it's just not locked to a specific carrier.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    ahhh..me thinks you be a troll. Funny, but i thought you were a palm OS user. The centro was innovative (for palm) i said. It's truth. It rejuvenated them a bit when the company was basically in the toilet ready to be flushed.

    You do remember people crying that the treo was a brick. You know..the one you use? What you've been crying about? So they come out and put the treo 755p in a smaller form factor that looked good (for palm) and turned out to be pretty popular. Just not with you apparently even though you don't like bricks.

    You can't see the screen? What are you..blind? The screen was made sharper by virtue of its slightly smaller size. The kb, while usable, sucks...i agree. More apps were included with the centro and it was a pretty good value for 99 as palm's most stable phone ever with palm os..

    Enough with this. A year ago, Palm was in deep. I didn't see em coming out with a Centro. That was a good move. Kept them going. The 800w i can't congratulate them much on as it took freaking forever, but alas..its out..it has the features those WM been wanting complete with a few bugs. It feels pretty damn great though in hand and typing on it. But you know what they say about looks. These are the morons out there (concerned about looks) that make palm compelled to keep putting the sucky centro kb on things.

    To continue down the WM line while they presumably work on Nova, they came out with the Treo Pro that you yourself have gushed about. I've already harped myself that it should be carried but as others pointed out, palm gets it out the door quicker by choosing to by pass it this time.

    Even the little engadget dude had to go edit his little bit of drivel as the Treo Pro became official but he wasn't one to let that get in the way

    But keep in mind, i was merely refuting engadget dude's piece as of now. A year ago, palm had problems. Here and now, they still do, but it's not nearly as dire. Things still heavily depend on Nova and what kind of device they settle on. And as i've said already, Palm needs to sell some WM Treos to see improvement...selling centros won't do it. The treo pro not being carried in the US is a worry so we'll see how that goes.

    If there be a troll in this thread, it be you, sorry to say. Laughable. What is truth here is that there is nothing, zero, zilch, squat... absolutely nada innovative about the centro. LOL. Are YOU blind?. It is smaller and that is it despite all that drivel and about it. Period. Its only popular due to its low price.

    The 800w comes packaged with much of what has been missing all these years but still could have used more improvements given the competition`s current offerings. There are idiots out there who insist that palm doesnt have to change the looks on their treos, as the "perfect" design has been achieved. During a time when the blackberry bold or the iphone`s 480 x 320 res screens have raised the bar and become wildly popular, the LEAST palm could do was to have implemented such a screen into their "mercedes" treo. Looks go a long way when selling a device or ANY product for that matter. People are not going to buy a 80`s style car with a modern engine when they could get a 2009 model with the same or slightly more modern engine for the same price or less. Please.

    Yes I have been complimentary toward the treo pro`s specs but critical of the marketing strategy. Palm finally produces a technologically competitive phone but makes it LESS likely to be a success by failing to offer it with a carrier contract. A $550 to $600 phone will face some real resistance especially in the current economic conditions. Im sure palm gets it out the door quicker but the truth is that they will probably not be able to sell it as effectively this way. Just not a great move in my opinion.

    I understand that you were simply commenting on engadget`s article. That`s fine. Palm does need to sell window`s treos in large sum to recover their market position now. That is true, but because that is the case you would have thought they`d have dramatically improved both their size of their screens AND their keyboards to catch the eye of the buyer they are targeting. Regressing back to a keyboard comparable to a 600 was bizarre - certainly NOT the way to do it. While the flush screen is a nice change they have still not done much to enhance its resolution. A business device SHOULD have a larger, gorgeous screen as it is to be used to view business documents, corporate email, web browsing, etc.
    Last edited by logmein; 08/24/2008 at 10:40 AM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Why so serious? Nowhere did i say anything about wanting status quo. But Palm hasn't been that in the last year.

    While that was true a year ago, you have to remember palm was in the dumps after making a bunch of mistakes. Since then, they've had a successful Centro..not a massive brick and pretty innovative for palm. The 800w which added some features those users had been wanting. And now the Treo Pro whose stunning looks is gaining praise from all the site. Not bad for a company on the ropes..

    Sounds like you're living in the past still pondering the old palm OS. They've already said the new OS will be different. So what is it that you want? You can't rewrite the past..
    I agree with that... although the centro was nothing to brag about, it did peak the interest into the company once again. Some of my younger family members wanted a centro. At least one of my family members recently purchased one. They love it... interesting to see if she moves on to a treo later in life or go another route. She had a Q (first generation) and hated it. She refused to purchase another Q (second generation).

    You are right in that regard. Looking at the comment for what it is, and in the context of the discussion. Complicated since depending on the conversation and what people think, you could look at the centro as an important device for palm or as a mistake/POS (and that does not mean "Palm Operating System"). lol
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  16. #16  
    The centro is a popular device. My wife has one for pete's sake. It appealed to many due to its small compact form and a very affordable price tag. It has been an important product for palm in recovering marketshare. I agree

    Innovative it is not, however. Its a change from the norm for palm, but it just can't be called innovative. Merely taking a form factor and shrinking it isnt innovation, its more like simple repackaging instead.
  17. #17  
    Palm can't afford these 'baby steps" and simple re-packaging. That might buy them some time, like the Centro did, but it won't save them. Motorola stayed too long with the RAZR instead of innovating and look where they are. The thin Treo Pro is a good start, but will it be enough? Not at $550!
  18. #18  
    Moving to cheaper improved-spec Centro from 650 has been ok.
    A $550 to $600 phone will face some real resistance especially in the current economic conditions.
    True, with $200 iPhones, Palm will have to develop a carrier relationship.
  19. #19  
    Hey as much as i hate the "looks" crap that seems to have taken over in the phone industry (over comfort & features), I think they got the centro right. I'm ok with the centro being where palm ultimately went with the old palm OS.

    Again, the article was concerned with what has palm done in the last year. Considering where they were at a year ago and what they didn't do in prior years (basically nothing and the support for the 700p was a total nightmare) , i'd say the last year has been great for them. For them.

    Let's now see the articles from gadget man concerning what apple or MS or BB has done in the last year.

    I don't care for BB..the Bold or whatever they got going doesn't do anything for me. Screens are too small. No stylus or touch (don't care if they are coming). If you only email or text, you're good to go.

    As for microsoft..is 6.1 much different? PIE still sucks. It's still a rough system to navigate even if palm's treo helps it out as much as possible.

    Apple took a winning iphone design and made it look cheap with the 3g iphone. Plastic back prone to scratching. GPS that isn't really gps. 3G that isn't really 3g. Carrier raised cost of plan. Itunes more bloated with syncs that take hours, many apps are worthless, bad battery life. Where's the innovation? Still looks the same as last year but worse quality now. How come it wasn't thinner? Where's the slider kb? Why wasn't the screen improved? Wahhh...wahhh...wahhhh They should replace that Jobs guy..

    HTC still is making useless touch wm phones that noone can input info on.

    The instinct was marketed as a multimedia feature phone that has one of the worst browsers ever made.

    I could argue that in the last year, palm probably has improved the most. Considering where they were at, it didn't take much and IMO it was surprising It's easy to pick on devices and gripe all day about something.
  20. #20  
    I love my Centro and feel it is far from a POS. I'm not a newbie either-I've used Palms ever since the Palm IIIx. Sure iPhones, WM devices and the like look pretty...but what good are looks if it doesn't do the things you need it to do very well?
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