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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    What emulators are you using on WM that aren't available on Palm?
    PocketGBA- works great on the 700wx, but not yet on the 800w.

    There's also FPSECE (PSX emulator) which I haven't even tried.
  2. roams11's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    There is no chatter replacement. FlexMail comes closest and is not really close.

    But other than email, how is the 800w SLOWER than a Palm OS device? I loaded all my apps and it flies.
    The Treo 800w is the newest Treo, and flies in comparison to other WM devices, a testament to Palm's work with WM6.1.

    But making the move from a 755p brings a different viewpoint. As mentioned, multi-tasking is an integrated refinement to WM. When used properly, the base Palm OS offfers a great degree of snappy task switching and with Hobbyist Software etc. essential enhancements, returning to an application 'in task' or keeping an app alive in a phone call (love this) is seamless.

    Following are some great videos comparing the usability speeds between the
    ,
    ,
    ,
    and
    .
    ...the results are not opinion, times are directly from the videos, and results might surprise some.
    Incidentally, the 755p preforms the test with P-tunes playing in the background.
    In the market for a wm device, the 800w is easily the best choice...quite an accomplishment for Palm prior to rolling out Nova/Palm OSII.
    Hope you have a few minutes to view the tests.
    Sprint Franken-Pre 2
  3. #23  
    [QUOTE=mxl360;1471768]
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    I'm thinking android is going to be like google's other "projects" outside of search, a disaster. QUOTE]

    I hope your not reffering to projects such as GMAIL...Googlemaps =)

    Multitasking is great... but current Palm OS gives me everything I need...simplified.
    Gmail sucks (big time)... googlemaps seems to be okay (although, I use live maps more now)... but the far majority of google's other projects are disasters.... Of course that is my f opinion.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  4. #24  
    windows mobile on a non-palm device is far superior to palm os. although i still have my treo 650 to play around with, after i got to know htc devices, i am understanding what all is possible with a mobile device.

    had palm not concentrated on windows mobile, i could imagine that a good palm os might have evolved.

    but palm gave up palm to concentrate on microsoft - and this is a sad fact.

    palm os is great, but its old. thats the problem.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by jinx View Post
    but palm gave up palm to concentrate on microsoft - and this is a sad fact.
    Whilst it may be true that Palm OS Garnet is not being enhanced, Palm have just given themselves some breathing space by implementing Windows phones while they develop their own new Linux based OS, Nova, which is due early in 2009.
  6. #26  
    I made the switch for one reason. The Blazer web browser is horrible and Java for Palm OS is defective so Opera Mini was not an option.

    Opera Mobile is very nice and even Pocket IE renders pages better than Blazer ever could. Looking forward to trying Skyfire and eventually Firefox Mobile.

    I miss Kinoma Player more than I can tell ya but they are putting together a WM version so I should be back in business soon. Also waiting on a micro usb to 3.5 adapter. When these last pieces come together, I'll be completely satisfied with the transition.
    Last edited by Yirk; 08/03/2008 at 06:55 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirk View Post
    I made the switch for one reason. The Blazer web browser is horrible and Java for Palm OS is defective so Opera Mini was not an option.

    Opera Mobile is very nice and even Pocket IE renders pages better than Blazer ever could. Looking forward to trying Skyfire and eventually Firefox Mobile.

    I miss Kinoma Player more than I can tell ya but they are putting together a WM version so I should be back in business soon. Also waiting on a micro usb to 3.5 adapter. When these last pieces come together, I'll be completely satisfied with the transition.
    I'm thinking we won't see a "great" Microsoft browser until win mob 7. Unless they want to compete with FF and release something with win mob 6.5 (if that is even real).

    I've not loaded or even played with skyfire, but it is going to be interesting to see where they fit once MS and FF get serious about mobile browsers. (Talking mostly financially -- how they make money, etc) Opera, I've heard, is a nice mobile browser.

    I use the standard browser with my win mob device and it works great... not enough screen space on the treos to cruise the net IMO. I love my treo for what it does... and for light net cruising...
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreak View Post
    Been using PalmOS for a while with Chatter. I now have a stable and responsive 755p (with a centro available if I can deal with the battery and small keyboard.

    I want to like WM. I want to like the 800w that I am 'testing' for the month. I realize WM is the future. But I just don't get it. For all of you that switched from a Palm with Chatter to WM, why do you like it so much better???

    My initial impressions are that the 800w is slower, outlook mobile doesn't match Chatter at all, and there are not as many customizations out there. I downloaded Pocket Informant but it doesn't match the feature-set of Datebk6 and 2day combined. PIE is no better than Blazer either.

    I'll give you that the GPS (and, to a lesser extent, wifi) make the hardware more appealing. But can someone please tell me what I am missing? For all of you who had a stable PalmOS with Chatter, why are you now happier with WM?
    I had almost forgotten REX. I loved it. Great form factor and battery life.
    Up the next election, my citizens; always the next election.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetfreak View Post
    Been using PalmOS for a while with Chatter. I now have a stable and responsive 755p (with a centro available if I can deal with the battery and small keyboard.

    I want to like WM. I want to like the 800w that I am 'testing' for the month. I realize WM is the future. But I just don't get it. For all of you that switched from a Palm with Chatter to WM, why do you like it so much better???

    My initial impressions are that the 800w is slower, outlook mobile doesn't match Chatter at all, and there are not as many customizations out there. I downloaded Pocket Informant but it doesn't match the feature-set of Datebk6 and 2day combined. PIE is no better than Blazer either.

    I'll give you that the GPS (and, to a lesser extent, wifi) make the hardware more appealing. But can someone please tell me what I am missing? For all of you who had a stable PalmOS with Chatter, why are you now happier with WM?
    I have had an iPhone for a year but have continued to use my Treo 650 for reading books and TomTom. I only recently took out the SIM. With the 2.0 iPhone firmware, I no longer need it for books. I am down to TomTom and hope to replace that in the near future. The Treo works fine and is useful without the phone function.

    That said, I cannot recommend it over the iPod Touch.
    Up the next election, my citizens; always the next election.
  10. #30  
    I traded my PPC6700 to my cousin for her Centro because I will getting the Touch Pro when it comes out and I've never used a PalmOS device. All I can say is that I'm glad I kept my back up 6700! I never used it for emails so I cant comment on that. But I use my devices to surf the web all the time and there is nothing that can compete with the Opera experience. Using Blazer is painful in comparison.

    I love my 6700 because it has wifi and I could use the EVDO connection and turn it into a wireless access point when I'm away from home to connect my laptop, psp, ds lite, and whatever else to it.

    If you get into any of the HTC devices will find an endless amount of customizations for it. I'm a member of ppcgeeks.com and they created a 'kitchen' with an excellent GUI to 'cook' your own custom rom. You could build any app you wanted in to the rom. To me, it doesn't get much more custom than that.

    That last difference I've noticed between the 2 platforms is that I think it is easier to find more, high quality free apps for Windows Mobile than it is for Palm. Now, that may just be my short experience with Palm but its something that stands out to me.

    I'm not saying one platform is better than another. Each person needs to find what works best for them. For me, I like to browse the internet with as close to a desktop experience as possible and need a wireless access point. For gadgetfreak, it sounds like email is the most important thing and is served best by Palm.
  11. carpediembp's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I'm thinking we won't see a "great" Microsoft browser until win mob 7. Unless they want to compete with FF and release something with win mob 6.5 (if that is even real).

    I've not loaded or even played with skyfire, but it is going to be interesting to see where they fit once MS and FF get serious about mobile browsers. (Talking mostly financially -- how they make money, etc) Opera, I've heard, is a nice mobile browser.

    I use the standard browser with my win mob device and it works great... not enough screen space on the treos to cruise the net IMO. I love my treo for what it does... and for light net cruising...

    Skyfire is very impressive, i would say its a good thing to have more so for entertainment purposes on WM phones. Due to its ease of youtube functionality etc.

    I saw "screenshots" for WM7 on engadget maybe a year ago, and they seem to really be working on a UI that flows a little more than WM6. I am a long time palm fan, but i gotta say, when the time comes for me to renew my contract, if Nova is nowhere to be seen, im jumping the palm ship and heading to WM or BlackBerry...
  12. #32  
    gadgetfreak,

    I don't get Windows Mobile either. Hated it since CE 1.0, even though I know underneath it is a better OS than Palm OS. I can deal with the instabilities in Palm OS, but simply cannot tolerate WinMob's UI (IMHO, the worst of all smart phone UI's), and the productivity apps (email, calendar, etc.)

    I'm looking forward to see what Palm comes up with in their next generation. I hope it is good, because with iPhone, Android, and an open Symbian platform, I expect a lot of really cool things to come.
    The wise man breaks wind and is gone... - J. Tull
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by roams11 View Post
    The Treo 800w is the newest Treo, and flies in comparison to other WM devices, a testament to Palm's work with WM6.1.

    But making the move from a 755p brings a different viewpoint. As mentioned, multi-tasking is an integrated refinement to WM. When used properly, the base Palm OS offfers a great degree of snappy task switching and with Hobbyist Software etc. essential enhancements, returning to an application 'in task' or keeping an app alive in a phone call (love this) is seamless.
    Hello roams11,

    Could you tell me what software that can do this; returning to an application 'in task' or keeping an app alive in a phone call (love this) is seamless.

    I have PhoneSwitch Deluxe which can do the phone part and some Palm apps do this naturally, but is there a different program that modifies "all" Palm apps to do this?

    Thanks
    www.MouseGlider.com
    Come Glide with Us

    Rock Solid and Stable - Sprint Centro and Treo 755p
  14. DervMan's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by roams11 View Post
    Following are some great videos comparing the usability speeds between the
    ,
    ,
    ,
    and
    .
    ...the results are not opinion, times are directly from the videos, and results might surprise some.
    Incidentally, the 755p preforms the test with P-tunes playing in the background.
    In the market for a wm device, the 800w is easily the best choice...quite an accomplishment for Palm prior to rolling out Nova/Palm OSII.
    Hope you have a few minutes to view the tests.
    Some interesting videos there, thanks for posting.

    To get back on topic, I do understand the point, but don't want to do it!

    My first PDA was a Windows CE 2.x Philips Velo 500 and I loved this device. Great piece of kit. I do have rose coloured spectacles as regards its stability and usability of course.

    I moved to a Palm IIIxe on run out because my Velo broke and the IIIxe was cheap. Great way to be introduced to PalmOS! I'd used them before but thought the form factor too limiting. After a short space of time I discovered what stability, usability, portability and battery life really meant... did I miss multitasking? A little. But not enough. I loved 40 hour battery life. That was nearly a fortnight of heavy use rather than three days.

    I've dipped back into the Windows Mobile arena since. I had an iPaq H3950 for over a year as my primary device. I swapped that for a Palm m515 and was happier. I tried replacing a cell 'phone and Tungsten T2 with a Qtek 9100 (HTZ Wizard) for a month, but whilst the hardware was superb and most of the operating system was tolerable, two real bitter pills struck.

    One was ActiveSync and how it treated the device as the junior of the partnership. With my PalmOS units, the device was happy to be your only device and didn't need the desktop. Actually this is something true of the Velo as well (for almost two years it was my only computer). More modern Windows Mobile devices seem to need their companion desktop or notebook.

    My second big issue was that the wretched thing wouldn't set off the alarm when it needed to.

    Ggaaaaahh! That HTC Wizard nearly broke me. Fantastic form factor, great hardware specification, but I nearly lost my job through being late to meetings.

    Against this... the Pro looks superb, the 800W won't be out in the UK as we use GSM networks here. I almost want one. It'll go above and beyond my 680 when it comes to functionality. It does more than I need, but my needs will grow to fill what it can do (that in my opinion is part of being a nerd, as is not what device you use, but what you want to use!). What puts me off are the bodged notifications and the issues with this and how ActiveSync may make me lose my temper again.

    I can cope with the more-taps-needed operating system because you do get used to it in time and it can be tweaked. But for me, it's the whole partnership from device to notebook and (now) the WWW / email too. I accept that Chatteremail+ and the Treo 680 isn't the best solution, but it works very well (better than it feels it ought to really!). I'm disappointed to learn that there is no real alternative to Chatteremail+ for Windows Mobile.

    I have to hope that there will be a Chatteremail+ equivalent for Nova.

    My final point in an already long post is that waiting for an operating system or device that is still unseen and unheard in the wild is setting oneself up for a nasty fall. That's exactly what I'm doing regarding my current 680 by holding on until the Nova devices are released next year. Worst case scenarios include my 680 dies between now and Nova being released, Nova is late, Nova is cancelled, Nova doesn't deliver what I want, Nova isn't released in the UK and I have to pick it up in the USA, Nova devices are hideously expensive, etc. etc. etc.

    If this happens, well, the Treo Pro feels like a backstop. That's being a bit unfair to the Pro as I like it, aside my lingering doubts above.
  15. #35  
    I keep waffling between my 755p and my 800w. I am so comfertable with the Palm OS it feel out of place using the WM 6.1. And I don't like that I have to use the stylus for most of the work on my 800w. I hardly ever use the Stylus on my 755p, but when I do use it, it feels so much more solid then the 800w's stylus.

    The web browsing on the 800w using Opera or SkyFire is soooo much better, and faster. And I love the GPS. Though I wounder if I'd be happy with a bluetooth GPS puck and some TomTom software...

    I'll keep trying the 800w, but I think by Thanksgiving if I'm still not using it full time I may sell it.


    EDIT---

    And i know the Palm OS doesn't have multi tasking, but can someone please tell me what the difference is? I can get email, txt, exchange, and IM all in the background on my Palm... What good is multi tasking on the Windows Platform?
    Iím a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  16. DervMan's Avatar
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    #36  
    In my opinion, multitasking is only useful if the device is doing something in the background that benefits being done in the background. Picking up emails - great. Running PocketExcel as I write notes in PocketWord - not so useful.

    Chatteremail+ is superb because of the background functionality...

    Keeping the results from a search or find run is handy as you check through these to find what you are looking for. That's something PalmOS doesn't do.

    But otherwise and just for my purposes, the tangible benefit of multitasking is... limited. Windows Mobile's multitasking isn't as efficient as my very old Psion 5mx running EPOC32. It just throws more hardware at the problem (not necessarily a bad thing of course...).
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigredgpk View Post
    I keep waffling between my 755p and my 800w. I am so comfertable with the Palm OS it feel out of place using the WM 6.1. And I don't like that I have to use the stylus for most of the work on my 800w. I hardly ever use the Stylus on my 755p, but when I do use it, it feels so much more solid then the 800w's stylus.

    The web browsing on the 800w using Opera or SkyFire is soooo much better, and faster. And I love the GPS. Though I wounder if I'd be happy with a bluetooth GPS puck and some TomTom software...

    I'll keep trying the 800w, but I think by Thanksgiving if I'm still not using it full time I may sell it.


    EDIT---

    And i know the Palm OS doesn't have multi tasking, but can someone please tell me what the difference is? I can get email, txt, exchange, and IM all in the background on my Palm... What good is multi tasking on the Windows Platform?

    The nice thing about multitasking (which Palm can do a little of like listening to Ptunes as you are surfing the web and what you have said) is the ability to save a program in present "state" and then return back to it without reopening the program you came from.

    Example, lets say you are in your "memo app" writing and you have to make a quick calculation, in Palm OS you would jump to your calculator make the calculation and then go back and "reopen" your memo app find where you were to insert your answer where you left off. With a multitasking program you would just go back to your memo app exactly at the same spot without having to reopen the memo app because the memo app didn't close.

    That being said, you can do that with Palm OS by using 3rd party DA's (Desk Accessories). I find this extrememly helpful. You end up having the speed and simplicity of Palm OS with a psuedo multitask (actually a task switcher that remembers the previous state of the app you left).

    I don't think a true multitask operation is all that beneficial on a phone/pda yet because it lacks true horsepower. I mean you really think you are going to DL'd mp3's as you are doing a database sort? I mean Pc's had a hard time doing that until multi core cpu's came into play. And sad to say, I only have a single core with not much memory in my 755p. Besides possible better web browsing experience in your 800w, I too like a very nice one hand operation and very nice battery life with my 2200mah stock sized battery over the 800w.

    Just my .02 cents.
    Last edited by MouseGlider; 10/07/2008 at 02:04 PM.
    www.MouseGlider.com
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    Rock Solid and Stable - Sprint Centro and Treo 755p
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by DervMan View Post
    In my opinion, multitasking is only useful if the device is doing something in the background that benefits being done in the background...

    ...Keeping the results from a search or find run is handy as you check through these to find what you are looking for. That's something PalmOS doesn't do.
    I have found DA's are pretty helpful here. It gives PalmOS a little longer life span.
    www.MouseGlider.com
    Come Glide with Us

    Rock Solid and Stable - Sprint Centro and Treo 755p
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by MouseGlider View Post
    The nice thing about multitasking (which Palm can do a little of like listening to Ptunes as you are surfing the web and what you have said) is the ability to save a program in present "state" and then return back to it without reopening the program you came from.

    Example, lets say you are in your "memo app" writing and you have to make a quick calculation, in Palm OS you would jump to your calculator make the calculation and then go back and "reopen" your memo app find where you were to insert your answer where you left off. With a multitasking program you would just go back to your memo app exactly at the same spot without having to reopen the memo app because the memo app didn't close.
    The above tells me you've either never used the Palm OS, or you've forgotten how it works. I can do all the above, and more, without using an DAs or other helper apps. I was reading this thread in Blazer. I used my launcher (Aardquick) to switch to Memos, and opened an existing memo. Then I swapped back to Blazer, and tapped "Page View." I was in exactly the same place I left. Then I switch to ChatterMail, and opened a message. Then switch to Memos. Yep, the memo I left open was still open, still at the same spot in the memo. Then back to Chatter. Yep, still at the same spot in the email. Then back to Blazer. Care to guess? Still in this message.

    Quote Originally Posted by MouseGlider View Post
    I don't think a true multitask operation is all that beneficial on a phone/pda yet because it lacks true horsepower.
    There's a great misconception regarding the Palm OS and multi-tasking. In fact, there's a big misconception about what multi-tasking is. The Palm OS DOES do multi-tasking. In fact, it does the same kind of multi-tasking Windows 3.1 did: cooperative multi-tasking. If P-OS didn't do multitasking, then Mail programs couldn't download in the background, music players would have to take total control of the system when playing music, etc.

    No handheld on the market today can do more than one thing at a time. Period. (Unless someone has introduced a dual-core handheld processor while I wasn't looking. One cpu means only one thing at a time actually gets executed, no matter what OS you're using. Operating systems appear to do more than one thing at a time by time-slicing, or rotating between tasks. Work on app A for a bit, then app B, then app C, etc. This is true of the Palm OS and Windows for handhelds. Heck, it's even true for Windows XP.

    So, given that, what's the difference between multi-tasking on the P-OS and WinCE? Windows uses pre-emptive multi-tasking. The OS decides how many cycles to give to each app, and when to switch. And the OS keeps track of the state of each app, so the app doesn't have any work to do in that regard. P-OS uses an older form of multi-tasking, called cooperative multi-tasking. In this design, the OS requests an application to relinquish control. The app, then, has to take steps to save its state, and tell the OS when it's ready to relinquish control. The OS then passes control to another app.

    A badly designed app can greatly slow down a cooperative multi-tasking OS, by not relinquising control when requested. And if it fails to save its state properly, then you may lose your place in the app when returning to it. Blazer demonstrates the first (although it doesn't have a lot of choice). The lag when you try to switch out of Blazer is because the app is writing to it's cache. Everything else has to wait while this happens. Versamail is an example of the second: it doesn't save it's state, so if you leave it with a message open, when you return you've lost that. But that's lousy programming, not a flaw in the Palm OS.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    The above tells me you've either never used the Palm OS, or you've forgotten how it works. I can do all the above, and more, without using an DAs or other helper apps. I was reading this thread in Blazer. I used my launcher (Aardquick) to switch to Memos, and opened an existing memo. Then I swapped back to Blazer, and tapped "Page View." I was in exactly the same place I left. Then I switch to ChatterMail, and opened a message. Then switch to Memos. Yep, the memo I left open was still open, still at the same spot in the memo. Then back to Chatter. Yep, still at the same spot in the email. Then back to Blazer. Care to guess? Still in this message.
    Well, without DA's "only" a few of my stock programs (Blazer is the only one I can think of now, but there may be a few others, but they have to be written very well to behave in that manner to save "state") will go back to exactly where I left off, but not all, but maybe it is because I use my stock launcher?

    So try to do what you say with a stock launcher - open up a stock email client like Versamail (not Chatter) - open an email and do a reply - scroll down to the middle of an email and go to your calculator to do a calculation, now go back to your email and see if your are in the same spot - I doubt you will be there unless you have a secret button to alllow you to get back to your email program.

    Tell me how so I don't have to use DA's and other special launchers and or 3rd party apps of any type or flavor. Could it be that you really are using 3rd party apps to get around some of the PalmOS deficiencies?

    Since you don't use any 3rd party helper apps as you said in the above post to do your magic; "I can do all the above, and more, without using an DAs or other helper apps" - then is Aardquick a stock launcher and Chatter is a stock email client? Can you do your magic switching without Aardquick as your launcher or special 3rd party apps like Chatter? Hmmmm I thought you said you can do all the above and more, without using an DAs or other helper apps.

    Yes I do understand true multitasking, dual core, time slices, etc. I was trying to answer in a simple way how a WinMo vs PalmOS compares to each other during a "task switch" as PalmOS for the most part shuts down a prior app before going to the next and that is why you lose your place. In fact WinMo 6.1 now includes that option to "shut down" the prior app so as not to leave everything in memory and slow down the device after opening a lots of apps - prior WinMoOS that did not have that option to "shut down" prior apps when hitting the "X" had to rely on a 3rd party app to do that - otherwise you had to go into your taskmgr to close all.

    PalmOS thru licensing agreements - see some of these threads on PalmOS multitasking:

    http://tamspalm.blogspot.com/2004/12...lt-palmos.html

    http://writingonyourpalm.net/column040315.htm

    But I am not here to explain to you about "true" multitasking and multicore cpu's since you seem to know quite a bit - I was simply answering the poster in a simple way. So show me how you do your magic "without" any helper apps and bad PalmOS programing and where I can get that Palm branded launcher Aardquick and is it free?

    BTW the DA's that I use can be generated easily by using Accessorizer and lanuched by DBLP - both of which are simple and free.

    And for the life of me, I don't know what OS my 755p is using because you said; "The above tells me you've either never used the Palm OS, or you've forgotten how it works" I think I am using a paper weight as a phone/pda.
    Last edited by MouseGlider; 10/09/2008 at 09:49 AM.
    www.MouseGlider.com
    Come Glide with Us

    Rock Solid and Stable - Sprint Centro and Treo 755p
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