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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    Now that I can agree with!
    Yeah so, what do you need from Palm?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    My point is that this sort of operation is far easier to do on your PC than on your Treo regardless of how you connect. Simply usability.
    Matter of opinion, and doesn't affect the usefulness of being able to do it at all at a remote location, which WiFi would enable.

    I'm not a sucker because I did not pay anything to own my Centro.
    So the Centro isn't worth more than free. I'd use all sorts of things if they were given to me for free, but I choose to give my money to products that I think are actually worth my support.
    The competition has added features, but are the devices as easy to use and versatile as Palm's?
    Again, matter of opinion, which plenty of people would answer yes. Plenty of arguments about WinMobile vs PalmOS on the threads, don't need to get into that here. Besides, a pad of paper is SUPER easy to use, if features aren't at all important to you.

    Okay. Do you believe that your challenges are prevalent within Palm's user base?
    I never said my uses were typical of an average user, but the fact remains that it's true for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has these kind of usage requirements. The whole idea of a smartphone vs a normal candybar or feature phone is to empower the user to do much more than the average user requires. While it's true that a large portion of Treo users have no need at all for a smartphone and never even install a single 3rd party application, there are plenty of us that do.

    Are you saying that re-encoding your video on Orb is more demanding than for your device to decode the original format?
    Yes. Much more.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Matter of opinion, and doesn't affect the usefulness of being able to do it at all at a remote location, which WiFi would enable.
    That you can do this, does not mean it's useful.
    So the Centro isn't worth more than free. I'd use all sorts of things if they were given to me for free, but I choose to give my money to products that I think are actually worth my support.
    On the contrary, the Centro is one of the best smartphone currently available. And at a great price.
    Again, matter of opinion, which plenty of people would answer yes. Plenty of arguments about WinMobile vs PalmOS on the threads, don't need to get into that here. Besides, a pad of paper is SUPER easy to use, if features aren't at all important to you.
    Have yet to see anyone claiming WM is easier to use.
    I never said my uses were typical of an average user, but the fact remains that it's true for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that has these kind of usage requirements. The whole idea of a smartphone vs a normal candybar or feature phone is to empower the user to do much more than the average user requires. While it's true that a large portion of Treo users have no need at all for a smartphone and never even install a single 3rd party application, there are plenty of us that do.
    Well, I can decide tomorrow to start a home automation project and rant on TC that Palm screwed me.

    Treo/Centro users have a fully capable PDA and multimedia device. Which device on the market do you believe is superior?
    Yes. Much more.
    Next you'll be telling me that you are serving multiple devices with varying bit rates
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  4. waldo15's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I stream data all the time, have yet to run into limitations. I don't know how much data I use, I don't care. Unlimited data.

    Are you posting from Asia or Europe? What's it to you? You're not taking your CDMA phone anywhere. If you have GSM you already decided to forgo fast data.


    Give examples.

    Again, trying to understand the griping. So far, I'm not seeing the pain, only envy and urge to have something new to play with regardless of real need.
    Well Siva, other posters have already presented examples of this. Let me add my own:

    - I post from Hillsboro OR (as clearly shown under my name on the left side). However, I do tend to travel a lot. It is a well known fact that CDMA is only useful here in the US and partially Canada. Down in Mexico that network is very very limited (only major metro areas). Now, I have business travel outside the American continent, mostly Taiwan and China. When I bring my 700p (and if you were to bring your Sprint Centro) all of the "amazing" EVDO features just go away in a cloud of smoke... no web browsing, no slinging, no orb broadcast, nothing.

    - But of course that is for us CDMA folk. What if, say, I would go witha GSM phone? Well, the plan changes. However, traveling abroad I'd have a similar experience. I could regain the ability to use my Treo as a phone as SIM cards for voice are extremely cheap and readily available everywhere... but data is a no go. Data usages in geos outside the US is a very expensive limit. Europe charges per kb, checking email could well run you over 10 euros! in Asia is a similar story, if you can get data at all. Again, the data portion of the phone would be compromised even while accepting the slowness of EDGE speeds.

    - In both cases, CDMA or GSM, the roaming charges are just obscene. I'd not dare to even look at my email with my phone. Perhaps roaming is not so much of a hassle in GSM as the SIMs can be bought locally.

    - Every carrier (including Sprint) present Unlimited data plans that are, in fact, limited. I invite you to read the fine print in your contract and/or call your Sprint rep and ask if the have the 5GB/month limit. You will get a partial yes answer, or in other words they will tell you that you can have all that you want in terms of web browsing and emailing, but the only way you could go over your "unlimited" limit is if you were streaming media with your device, use it as a modem for your laptop or perhaps bit-torrenting with your phone (this I have yet to see) and that all of those bandwidth intensive applications are outside of the scope of the Unlimited contract, and can actually void it and you can get kicked out of the service for doing it. Amazing isn't it?

    But there's no point in arguing, WiFi is now a standard feature in he smartphone world. Let us switch the discussion to other camps, for example:

    - Use of custom connectors. Most of the other smartphone makers have "united" behind the standard miniUSB connector. Palm insists in keeping the custom connector. Perhaps this will change in the upcoming Treo 8XX series. Not to even mention most of the phones that have multimedia playback capabilities provide a standard 3.5mm jack for standard hedphones. Treo/Centro still uses the 2.5mm for old wired headsets...

    - UI (User Interface). It is true that there was no parallel between the ease-of-use of the PalmOS, specially when compared to WM. However many phone makers realized this fact and they have started adding their own special flavor to the WM. I'd suggest you to play with an HTC touch, you would never know there is WM6 running in the background. Or a Moto Q9m/c, you can go anywhere using the jog dial. But in all fairness, the iPhone is squashing them all in terms of UI. It could be a debate over what we are used to, but there's no point in arguing that the phone just has the right amount of "phone customization" with the right amount of "mac customization". The controls are extremely simple, flicking your finger from left to right erases emails for example. It is worth mentioning that switching apps and the home screen feels much like what PalmOS was when it was first conceived. Yes, one can argue that all of this smatrphone UI revolution is thanks to Palm and the PalmOS, but also one wonders why Palm never advanced the features to keep up with the times?

    - It is OK that you are happy with your Centro, but don't feel the need to preach that everyone who doesn't own one and longs for a device with more features is asking for trouble. The Centro has value, but not in the technology it carries; it has value in the sense that it brings smartphones to the masses. Palm is banking on this fact so new Centro users will tomorrow become Treo users, in whatever flavor Treo exists then. Outside of this, the Centro is no match at all with many devices out there, which I list a few as examples:

    - Ability to run 3G HDSPA: Treo 750v, HTC Tilt, BlackJack II
    - UI: iPhone, HTC Touch
    - Bluetooth: Any WM phone
    - GPS: Garmin Nuvi phone, HTC tilt
    - USB connector: HTC tilt, HTC touch, BlackJack II
    - Email connectivity: Any blackberry 8xxx series
    - Media Playback: iPhone

    So there, a few examples and comments on the matter. What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by waldo15; 05/09/2008 at 01:26 PM.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  5. #65  
    Email connectivity would seriously be solved if Chatteremail was still being developed. That will never happen though so...
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo15 View Post
    Well Siva, other posters have already presented examples of this. Let me add my own:

    - I post from Hillsboro OR (as clearly shown under my name on the left side). However, I do tend to travel a lot. It is a well known fact that CDMA is only useful here in the US and partially Canada. Down in Mexico that network is very very limited (only major metro areas). Now, I have business travel outside the American continent, mostly Taiwan and China. When I bring my 700p (and if you were to bring your Sprint Centro) all of the "amazing" EVDO features just go away in a cloud of smoke... no web browsing, no slinging, no orb broadcast, nothing.

    - But of course that is for us CDMA folk. What if, say, I would go witha GSM phone? Well, the plan changes. However, traveling abroad I'd have a similar experience. I could regain the ability to use my Treo as a phone as SIM cards for voice are extremely cheap and readily available everywhere... but data is a no go. Data usages in geos outside the US is a very expensive limit. Europe charges per kb, checking email could well run you over 10 euros! in Asia is a similar story, if you can get data at all. Again, the data portion of the phone would be compromised even while accepting the slowness of EDGE speeds.

    - In both cases, CDMA or GSM, the roaming charges are just obscene. I'd not dare to even look at my email with my phone. Perhaps roaming is not so much of a hassle in GSM as the SIMs can be bought locally.
    We all have different priorities. You travel, and yet you decided that having a CDMA 700p from Sprint was more important to you than having a slow if versatile GSM phone. You made a deliberate choice in favoring a 3G device, knowing it would not work elsewhere. How then, do you personally feel aggrieved by a missing feature on a phone you will not be using on your travels?

    - Every carrier (including Sprint) present Unlimited data plans that are, in fact, limited. I invite you to read the fine print in your contract and/or call your Sprint rep and ask if the have the 5GB/month limit. You will get a partial yes answer, or in other words they will tell you that you can have all that you want in terms of web browsing and emailing, but the only way you could go over your "unlimited" limit is if you were streaming media with your device, use it as a modem for your laptop or perhaps bit-torrenting with your phone (this I have yet to see) and that all of those bandwidth intensive applications are outside of the scope of the Unlimited contract, and can actually void it and you can get kicked out of the service for doing it. Amazing isn't it?
    As I said, I stream a lot, and honestly it's hard to imagine how I could possibly stream even more with the limited free time I have during the day. I have yet to run into limitations. And again, even Sprint provides you with a TV service, encouraging you to stream. They let Palm include Kinoma and pTunes, surely they knew what those applications are for.

    You propose tethering as an example that would exceed the limits. Say you want to go online with your laptop. Both the laptop and your phone have WiFi. Obviously the phone is redundant. I'm struggling to imagine what other data-intensive applications might exceed the limits, if such exist.

    But there's no point in arguing, WiFi is now a standard feature in he smartphone world.
    I'm only asking, is this an important feature on a 3G phone. Are you complaining because it's merely missing and should be standard, or because it really limits you? Are your complaints more substantial than just a case of feature envy?

    Let us switch the discussion to other camps, for example:
    - Use of custom connectors. Most of the other smartphone makers have "united" behind the standard miniUSB connector. Palm insists in keeping the custom connector. Perhaps this will change in the upcoming Treo 8XX series. Not to even mention most of the phones that have multimedia playback capabilities provide a standard 3.5mm jack for standard hedphones. Treo/Centro still uses the 2.5mm for old wired headsets...
    I agree that it would be nice to have standard connectors. However, these are minor issues considering the whole package. Seriously, how are they affecting you so much that you would "jump ship"?

    - UI (User Interface). It is true that there was no parallel between the ease-of-use of the PalmOS, specially when compared to WM. However many phone makers realized this fact and they have started adding their own special flavor to the WM. I'd suggest you to play with an HTC touch, you would never know there is WM6 running in the background. Or a Moto Q9m/c, you can go anywhere using the jog dial. But in all fairness, the iPhone is squashing them all in terms of UI. It could be a debate over what we are used to, but there's no point in arguing that the phone just has the right amount of "phone customization" with the right amount of "mac customization". The controls are extremely simple, flicking your finger from left to right erases emails for example. It is worth mentioning that switching apps and the home screen feels much like what PalmOS was when it was first conceived. Yes, one can argue that all of this smatrphone UI revolution is thanks to Palm and the PalmOS, but also one wonders why Palm never advanced the features to keep up with the times?
    We agree that the Palm OS is unparalleled in ease of use. The iPhone so far has very limited functionality. Will its UI scale to support more intricate usage that's possible on Palm devices? Does it work well single-handedly? These are weighty issues that should count far more than gestures and slick icons. Then of course, you don't mind at all that it doesn't even have a clipboard. Again, I get the impression that your criticism of Palm is simply unserious. How can you point to a device as incomplete as the iPhone?

    How should Palm advance their UI to keep up with the times? I suppose cooler graphics would be nice. I don't know, what's wrong with the UI that needs changing? I can't see better examples, and you seem to agree.

    - It is OK that you are happy with your Centro, but don't feel the need to preach that everyone who doesn't own one and longs for a device with more features is asking for trouble. The Centro has value, but not in the technology it carries; it has value in the sense that it brings smartphones to the masses. Palm is banking on this fact so new Centro users will tomorrow become Treo users, in whatever flavor Treo exists then.
    I am not preaching, just responding to the tide of negativity on TC. I have been a long time Palm user, and experienced frustrations with my 650 and have considered it to be my last Palm device. But the Centro shows that Palm may have turned a corner and I want to bring this point forward in the face of constant hand-wringing based on outdated experiences with older devices.

    The Centro's value is in its maturity and usefulness. As a package, it's hard to beat, even without looking at its ridiculously low price. That's tremendous value.

    Outside of this, the Centro is no match at all with many devices out there, which I list a few as examples:

    - Ability to run 3G HDSPA: Treo 750v, HTC Tilt, BlackJack II
    - UI: iPhone, HTC Touch
    - Bluetooth: Any WM phone
    - GPS: Garmin Nuvi phone, HTC tilt
    - USB connector: HTC tilt, HTC touch, BlackJack II
    - Email connectivity: Any blackberry 8xxx series
    - Media Playback: iPhone
    I agree that other devices in the aggregate are superior to the Centro. But individually, they are no match for it.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Email connectivity would seriously be solved if Chatteremail was still being developed. That will never happen though so...
    I agree that Palm botched it with Versamail. I could not believe how bad it was and how Palm thought it suited business purposes. However, the latest version is a huge improvement. It has never failed in months of usage and MS Push really works (and it's free). I am still miffed at the lack of nested mailboxes though.

    Which devices have better email clients, and in what ways specifically?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Are you saying that re-encoding your video on Orb is more demanding than for your device to decode the original format?
    Yes. Much more.
    If your phone is having a hard time playing Orb streams, then the bitrate is too high for either (1) your home PC's upstream internet connection, (2) your phone's data connection, or (3) the device's CPU to decode in realtime.

    (1) or (2) are more likely, but in any case the fix is to adjust your streaming preferences until it works well.

    -- Charles Wiltgen
    Kinoma Notes blog | Subscribe to blog (email) | Subscribe to blog (RSS) | Follow Kinoma for news/content alerts | Follow KinomaTips for tips/tricks
  9. waldo15's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    We all have different priorities. You travel, and yet you decided that having a CDMA 700p from Sprint was more important to you than having a slow if versatile GSM phone. You made a deliberate choice in favoring a 3G device, knowing it would not work elsewhere. How then, do you personally feel aggrieved by a missing feature on a phone you will not be using on your travels?


    As I said, I stream a lot, and honestly it's hard to imagine how I could possibly stream even more with the limited free time I have during the day. I have yet to run into limitations. And again, even Sprint provides you with a TV service, encouraging you to stream. They let Palm include Kinoma and pTunes, surely they knew what those applications are for.

    You propose tethering as an example that would exceed the limits. Say you want to go online with your laptop. Both the laptop and your phone have WiFi. Obviously the phone is redundant. I'm struggling to imagine what other data-intensive applications might exceed the limits, if such exist.


    I'm only asking, is this an important feature on a 3G phone. Are you complaining because it's merely missing and should be standard, or because it really limits you? Are your complaints more substantial than just a case of feature envy?


    I agree that it would be nice to have standard connectors. However, these are minor issues considering the whole package. Seriously, how are they affecting you so much that you would "jump ship"?


    We agree that the Palm OS is unparalleled in ease of use. The iPhone so far has very limited functionality. Will its UI scale to support more intricate usage that's possible on Palm devices? Does it work well single-handedly? These are weighty issues that should count far more than gestures and slick icons. Then of course, you don't mind at all that it doesn't even have a clipboard. Again, I get the impression that your criticism of Palm is simply unserious. How can you point to a device as incomplete as the iPhone?

    How should Palm advance their UI to keep up with the times? I suppose cooler graphics would be nice. I don't know, what's wrong with the UI that needs changing? I can't see better examples, and you seem to agree.


    I am not preaching, just responding to the tide of negativity on TC. I have been a long time Palm user, and experienced frustrations with my 650 and have considered it to be my last Palm device. But the Centro shows that Palm may have turned a corner and I want to bring this point forward in the face of constant hand-wringing based on outdated experiences with older devices.

    The Centro's value is in its maturity and usefulness. As a package, it's hard to beat, even without looking at its ridiculously low price. That's tremendous value.


    I agree that other devices in the aggregate are superior to the Centro. But individually, they are no match for it.
    The vectors in deciding what phone to have are many, and with the 2-year requirement you make one decision that will haunt you for the rest of the phone's life. In my case, I chose Verizon because it provided the services I needed at the time. It was later than my business needs pushed me to international travel requirements. If I had had an epiphany of the future to come, I'd have selected a broader GSM service but sadly, that is a rality I face today but I am a month short of correcting that error one my contract expires.

    But the lack of WiFi still applies. The 700p may not work as a phone outside of the US, but still has my calendar appointments, contacts and the rest of apps/games that I use that have nothing to do with the phone portion. So, as you can imagine, is still a viable media player/entertainment tool on the road. If it had WiFi then all of the options would be open to me regardless of location. And have you wondered why, if indeed 3G was enough, would it be added to the phones that can do HSDPA? Believe me, phone makers are no dumb, they put things in because they know they will sell their product.

    In terms of connectors, let's put it this way: when was the last time you had to look for a specialty USB cable? USB is so prevalent nowadays that anywhere you go, there are USB cables and devices available for extremely cheap. The USB in the phones has reasons behind it: the ecosystem is there to support your device without major need of 3rd party specialty peripheral makers (Seidio an example). But indeed you have a point, the lack of USB on a device should not be a dealbreaker but is now in my wish list when shopping for a new phone.

    Let me just sink in the notion of streaming content with your phone. That is not a permitted use of your device. It's OK though, we all do it. What is more important though is the fact that it is easy to reach the 5GB cap if you use your device to stream TV with Sling, at least an hour a day. Just an example. Same with Orb. Maybe you have not reached GB caps yet because well, you don't use your data plan that much? In my case about 2GB is the regular usage. But I signed my data plan because it was Unlimited. never they told me about unlimited havings caps. Again, it's a thing each one has to ponder.

    You are quite right, the centro is the best bang for the buck you can get. But your bang has to be limited in scope. we have made that clear here. Everyone who has been a smartphone user agrees that its simplicity is beatifu, yet limiting in a few ways.

    Regarding the Palm OS UI, nowadays graphics are a driving factor. PalmOS cannot handle VGA resolutions, color depths beyond 16bit or even the most simple 3D artifacts. You cannot argue that usability of today's computers (be them Windows or Mac) has been much improved thanks to easier interfaces. Colors, shapes, effects. The eye candy attracts attention.

    The underpinings of the OS are, on the other hand, a major achilles heel for Palm. This is no multi-threaded OS. why is this important? Simple: you can have a web page open, music playing and calendar editing, phone conversations... at the same time. With the Treo/Centro you cannot have them concurrently. This is stuff we do on a daily basis, both in our lives and in our PC computing habits. You do run into those requirements on a regular basis, and negating the need for mutithreaded OS is not using common sense, is also negating the last 20 years of technology revolution.

    You say you don't preach the Centro... yet you end your entry saying that the Centro beats individually each one of those phones. We could go on on a tech-level detailed discussion on how that may not be the case, but I invite you to reconsider your stance on non-preaching. You made a choice and you chose Centro... kudos to you, you are on your way to become a true power user. Just don't fall in the same error we did when we first got our 600/650 etc. and stuck with Palm, and got burnt with Palm. Realize your device has its flaws and be ready to realize when a new device shows up that is better.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  10. #70  
    Found a huge reason why I like WM better so far.

    Large apps located on the SD card on my Q9C (several mb) load about as fast as internal memory apps on Palm. A 2-4mb app takes forever to load from the SD card on the 755p or Centro. I used the same memory card for all devices and formatted the same.

    Also I can download a 5-8mb file attachment with Outlook no problem (which only Snappermail allows, but is really slow).
    Last edited by papped; 05/09/2008 at 05:14 PM.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo15 View Post
    But the lack of WiFi still applies. The 700p may not work as a phone outside of the US, but still has my calendar appointments, contacts and the rest of apps/games that I use that have nothing to do with the phone portion. So, as you can imagine, is still a viable media player/entertainment tool on the road. If it had WiFi then all of the options would be open to me regardless of location. And have you wondered why, if indeed 3G was enough, would it be added to the phones that can do HSDPA? Believe me, phone makers are no dumb, they put things in because they know they will sell their product.
    That's funny. Palm is giving you a phone so good as a media device, that now it's actually failing to be a stand-alone, companion media device to take with your actual phone--you got me.

    In terms of connectors, let's put it this way: when was the last time you had to look for a specialty USB cable? USB is so prevalent nowadays that anywhere you go, there are USB cables and devices available for extremely cheap. The USB in the phones has reasons behind it: the ecosystem is there to support your device without major need of 3rd party specialty peripheral makers (Seidio an example). But indeed you have a point, the lack of USB on a device should not be a dealbreaker but is now in my wish list when shopping for a new phone.
    What eco-system? There's the cradle or HotSync cable. Okay, maybe you left your cable at home and it's nice to just grab one laying around. But I don't see any eco-system. Faster speeds would be welcome but I don't find it terribly slow at the present.

    Let me just sink in the notion of streaming content with your phone. That is not a permitted use of your device. It's OK though, we all do it. What is more important though is the fact that it is easy to reach the 5GB cap if you use your device to stream TV with Sling, at least an hour a day. Just an example. Same with Orb. Maybe you have not reached GB caps yet because well, you don't use your data plan that much? In my case about 2GB is the regular usage. But I signed my data plan because it was Unlimited. never they told me about unlimited havings caps. Again, it's a thing each one has to ponder.
    Sprint includes a streaming TV service with the Centro. How can they possibly not permit it?

    If 2GB is your regular usage, is it really so easy to cap the 5GB with Verizon? It doesn't look like it. It's just a phone, not a home theater system to spend the day with.

    You are quite right, the centro is the best bang for the buck you can get. But your bang has to be limited in scope. we have made that clear here. Everyone who has been a smartphone user agrees that its simplicity is beatifu, yet limiting in a few ways.

    Regarding the Palm OS UI, nowadays graphics are a driving factor. PalmOS cannot handle VGA resolutions, color depths beyond 16bit or even the most simple 3D artifacts. You cannot argue that usability of today's computers (be them Windows or Mac) has been much improved thanks to easier interfaces. Colors, shapes, effects. The eye candy attracts attention.

    The underpinings of the OS are, on the other hand, a major achilles heel for Palm. This is no multi-threaded OS. why is this important? Simple: you can have a web page open, music playing and calendar editing, phone conversations... at the same time. With the Treo/Centro you cannot have them concurrently. This is stuff we do on a daily basis, both in our lives and in our PC computing habits. You do run into those requirements on a regular basis, and negating the need for mutithreaded OS is not using common sense, is also negating the last 20 years of technology revolution.
    In some ways the Palm OS is similar to the old Mac OS. Non-multitasking, crash-prone with third party extensions, pedestrian looking. But it was snappy and very efficient, while Mac OS X, the modern system, is hardly. Is this progress? Yes, for PC systems. The applications and scope of work that can be done on them really called for modernizing the OS. The case is much weaker on a Palm device. I would not mind having a multitasking OS, but honestly, other than listening to pTunes in the background and having push email, there's not much that calls for it. Usually I'm fine with Blazer saving its current page to memory and loading it when I switch to it back after a phone call. The slight delay doesn't bother me because I know what it's doing.

    With a multitasking OS, you'd have to manage which applications run and keep them from hogging resources. Complexity that's better justified on a PC than on a smartphone.

    I agree that, unfortunately, eye candy counts for a lot. But surely a power user like you can look beyond it?

    You say you don't preach the Centro... yet you end your entry saying that the Centro beats individually each one of those phones. We could go on on a tech-level detailed discussion on how that may not be the case, but I invite you to reconsider your stance on non-preaching. You made a choice and you chose Centro... kudos to you, you are on your way to become a true power user. Just don't fall in the same error we did when we first got our 600/650 etc. and stuck with Palm, and got burnt with Palm. Realize your device has its flaws and be ready to realize when a new device shows up that is better.
    I mentioned already that I have owned a 650, so the mistake was made and for a while I swore it would be my last Palm device. It had an infuriating tendency to crash at the worst moments. It embarrassed me time and time again in front of colleagues and friends. In no way am I being naive about problems. But I want to think that the Centro is indicative of something new from Palm and that they deserve another chance. It may be too little too late for some, but the improvement is undeniable.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  12. #72  
    Found another feature I love about my Q9c, battery life...

    I just played Resco Defender for about 2+ hours non stop and it barely even dented the battery. So far this phone with heavier usage lasts longer than my Treo 755p + 3200mAh battery.

    With a multitasking OS, you'd have to manage which applications run and keep them from hogging resources. Complexity that's better justified on a PC than on a smartphone.
    Yeah, this is basically why I think WM and Palm OS are even on this aspect, they each have a different weakness. Palm is easier to navigate and requires practically no dynamic heap management (not true if you start loading some heavy launchers and apps that require a lot of dynamic heap though), while WM has multitasking but requires closer memory management and.

    Palm does pretty decent at cheating the lack of multitasking in most cases, unless you get into those heavier, more complex use cases. i.e. you can listen to mp3's, then launch a web browser, navigate somewhere, then go to memo pad, then go back and forth between any of those apps and it's basically similar to multitasking. I think this covers the uses of a lot of consumers out there pretty well (not that it's really an excuse for not including multitasking).

    As for eye candy, the Palm OS actually looks quite nice if you use a lot of 3rd party apps (SkinUI, Zlauncher, FontSmoother, etc). It takes some config though. The base Palm OS is rather ugly.
  13. cgk
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    #73  
    Going back to wifi for a moment, a point often missed is that a large percentage of wifi usage with smartphones is at home.

    I have a samsung i780 (fantastic phone by the way - very fast, the GPS in it used in conjunction with something like livesearch is amazing) and let's me outline one scenario for wifi usage.

    I want to update the 10 or so podcasts that I listen to on a regular basis - I connect to my network and download the 200 or so mb while I have my breakfast, no need to fire up the pc or connect to it to transfer data.

    My phone has HSPDA but even on my high level package I'd run through the data allowance pretty quickly if I was using it to download podcasts on a regular basis.
  14. #74  
    The major reason to stay with Palm would be if the Treo elves are multitasking, working harder to make POS look hot. Treo does so much more than iPhone, but IPhone looks better (big screen, full Mac OS) for doing what little it does. SkinUI is a decent 3rd party but deleted it becos resets during each phone call.
    Not interested in WM6 -- got a macbookpro while waiting for Steve to add cut-n-paste to his phone.
  15. #75  
    Disable "Big Buttons" in SkinUI and it won't reset.
  16. Paul's Avatar
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    #76  
    Nice sig file. : ] "theog"
    Last edited by Palmfood; 12/22/2008 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Wanted to specify which sig file.
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