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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Maybe an actual example would help me understand. What have you done or wanted to do recently that made you wish you had WiFi?

    I have WiFi at home. I use my Centro around the house, it has most of my music on its card, I have Jabra BT if I need more than that. In bed I often stream internet radio, podcasts or videos. In the office I use VPN and VNC with no problem. I often use BT for HotSync.

    What other kinds of interactions are you thinking about with your home network? What files do you need to transfer to your Treo around the house or in bed?
    Did I not site a whole list of examples in my post? Do you really need more details?

    Let's see:

    File transfer - Boy, I copy stuff to my Treo all the time, and would love to do it without having to pop out the SD card or stick it in the cradle and launch CardExport. Plenty of those are things I can't get straight off the internet from my phone, like swapping out music tracks, video files, an old game I want to play in ScummVM or LJP, copy pictures to and from my PC (remember the Treo's a camera too), etc. Lots of stuff to copy, all the time. I have a 4GB card and usually keep it pretty full, and am swapping things out regularly.

    Hotsync - Didn't I already address this one?
    you can do it through Bluetooth but at a drastically decreased range and speed.
    The only bluetooth-enabled PC I have in the house is my laptop, and it's not always running. I could go out and buy a bluetooth dongle to stick in my desktop PC, but then I'd still only be able to sync while in the same room or 1 room over. That and it takes a horrendously long time to sync via bluetooth.

    VNC - I can VNC with my current setup, but it's much, much slower through EVDO than it would be going straight to the PC through WiFi. That and I have to open up extra ports on my router to do this, which is a security risk.

    media streaming - I can do this to some extent with ORB, but videos often get choppy or downright fail due to insufficient bandwidth - plus it puts a huge strain on your PC to re-encode everything on the fly. Better to just play the native file directly.

    remote control - There's a wide variety (and growing) number of appliances that can be controlled by computers or via WiFi. You could also control your PC or Media Center PC with your Treo (since our infrared ports are too weak to use more than 1 meter away). Sure you could open ports in your router to do most of that through EVDO, but again, security risk.

    That enough for you? You still doubt there would be real benefits to having WiFi on our Treos?
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I stream data all the time, have yet to run into limitations. I don't know how much data I use, I don't care. Unlimited data.
    So just because you've never had your service turned off due to going over your limit means all the other poor guys on Verizon that got the letter are liers?

    Are you posting from Asia or Europe? What's it to you? You're not taking your CDMA phone anywhere. If you have GSM you already decided to forgo fast data.
    Boy, if it doesn't affect you personally it must not affect anyone else and you shouldn't care about it, eh? Good motto to live by. I'm sure you'll make lots of friends that way.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  3. #43  
    Not to mention CardExport is garbage slow for large files.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Not to mention CardExport is garbage slow for large files.
    That brings up another issue - would it kill Palm to convert to USB 2.0 for connectivity instead of their crappy proprietary slow-as-molasses serial-USB mess?
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  5. #45  
    Why would a developer use USB 2.0, it's not like its a standard or anything...

    No BT 2.0, no USB 2.0, this stuff is not even new by any stretch of the imagination.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    File transfer - Boy, I copy stuff to my Treo all the time, and would love to do it without having to pop out the SD card or stick it in the cradle and launch CardExport. Plenty of those are things I can't get straight off the internet from my phone, like swapping out music tracks, video files, an old game I want to play in ScummVM or LJP, copy pictures to and from my PC (remember the Treo's a camera too), etc. Lots of stuff to copy, all the time. I have a 4GB card and usually keep it pretty full, and am swapping things out regularly.
    Don't you have to be sitting at your computer to do all this, where sticking your Treo in the cradle is trivial? I transfer tracks with pTunes over USB. I have to sit there anyway to select files, WiFi is hardly of use when I'm right at my computer. Anything nearby your computer that takes fussing around with files is too much effort not to do on your computer.
    Hotsync - Didn't I already address this one? The only bluetooth-enabled PC I have in the house is my laptop, and it's not always running. I could go out and buy a bluetooth dongle to stick in my desktop PC, but then I'd still only be able to sync while in the same room or 1 room over. That and it takes a horrendously long time to sync via bluetooth.
    Sure, but it's not like you are unable to sync. Between BT and USB, are things that terrible?
    VNC - I can VNC with my current setup, but it's much, much slower through EVDO than it would be going straight to the PC through WiFi. That and I have to open up extra ports on my router to do this, which is a security risk.
    To me VNC is a last resort when I'm out and about. I'd be crazy to VNC to my PC at home when I'm actually at home. The screen size is the real limitation, not speed.
    media streaming - I can do this to some extent with ORB, but videos often get choppy or downright fail due to insufficient bandwidth - plus it puts a huge strain on your PC to re-encode everything on the fly. Better to just play the native file directly.
    It strains your device far more to attempt to play them. I don't use Orb but I suspect you are not using it correctly. Plenty of sites on the web, and Sling of course, have no problem streaming videos.
    remote control - There's a wide variety (and growing) number of appliances that can be controlled by computers or via WiFi. You could also control your PC or Media Center PC with your Treo (since our infrared ports are too weak to use more than 1 meter away). Sure you could open ports in your router to do most of that through EVDO, but again, security risk.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    So just because you've never had your service turned off due to going over your limit means all the other poor guys on Verizon that got the letter are liers?
    I'm on Sprint, so I haven't experienced it. Not familiar with the Verizon cases. Who knows what they did, maybe they tethered their PCs? Just what sort of usage would reach any conceivable limit on these devices?
    Boy, if it doesn't affect you personally it must not affect anyone else and you shouldn't care about it, eh? Good motto to live by. I'm sure you'll make lots of friends that way.
    We are here in the US trying to debate whether Palm devices are up to our needs. People here, on this eminently American forum are carping about missing features. So what are their real needs? Are they just agitating because theoretically some people in Asia are screwed or does it affect them in the real world?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Why would a developer use USB 2.0, it's not like its a standard or anything...

    No BT 2.0, no USB 2.0, this stuff is not even new by any stretch of the imagination.
    Agree. But how big of a deal is this? People are threatening to jump ship left and right.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  9. #49  
    USB 2.0 IS a fairly big deal. Have you ever sync'd a large (or even moderate) media file over the USB cable? It's ridiculous.... It actually inhibits hotsync usage.

    Considering the 755p/Centro is easily capable of high res video playback at full speed, this is a problem.
  10. #50  
    I sync a 100-200MB batch of files at least once a week and don't mind it.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  11. #51  
    Congrats on the Q9C. What problems are you overlooking so far in compare with your Treo?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  12. #52  
    Ok, but not minding the ridiculously long wait doesn't make it a non issue for me.

    700mb if I remember correctly took about an hour to sync...

    I havent activated my q9c yet so I can't comment (although I've had WM5/WM6 devices in the past). I switched back due to 3rd party developers leaving Palm though, not so much the hardware issues. 3rd party defines the Palm OS.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    I switched back due to 3rd party developers leaving Palm though, not so much the hardware issues. 3rd party defines the Palm OS.
    That's a valid concern. But are you directly affected by this at present?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  14. #54  
    Yeah. Some of the apps I use are no longer being developed. Other apps that should be 1st party are not really being developed at all or at least enough (email clients, browsers).

    There is no web browser with higher compatibility and in-browser flash support anywhere even close for Palm OS. Versamail is being updated VERY slowly (and still has issues for a lot of people). Snappermail had 1 release in 2 years. Chatteremail (arguably the best email client) is not in development.

    Opera Mini is in development, but it's crippled by the Palm JVM which is no longer even supported or distributed.

    Also, Glimmermail will be disabled once hotmail discontinues supporting it. The developer states they will continue development on it but there's no guarantee that it will end up being for Garnet.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Don't you have to be sitting at your computer to do all this, where sticking your Treo in the cradle is trivial? I transfer tracks with pTunes over USB. I have to sit there anyway to select files, WiFi is hardly of use when I'm right at my computer. Anything nearby your computer that takes fussing around with files is too much effort not to do on your computer.
    Am I talking to a brick wall? My whole point is that now you have to be sitting in front of your PC to do this. With WiFi you could do it anywhere in the house.

    Sure, but it's not like you are unable to sync. Between BT and USB, are things that terrible?
    Are you a Palm apologist or something? "Sure it sucks, but it's good enough anyways...even though the competition has all addressed these issues we'll leave it as is because our customers are suckers."

    To me VNC is a last resort when I'm out and about. I'd be crazy to VNC to my PC at home when I'm actually at home. The screen size is the real limitation, not speed.
    That's great for you, but I have 5 PCs and servers in my home that all have different things running on them (and some headless, which I have to access either via web dashboard, Remote Desktop, or VNC). So I use VNC all the time to check on something that's running on one PC from elsewhere in the house or to execute something. Having experienced VNC extensively via LAN and Internet, I can definitely say that there is a significant speed difference. Plus the aforementioned security risks that you apparently don't care about.

    It strains your device far more to attempt to play them. I don't use Orb but I suspect you are not using it correctly. Plenty of sites on the web, and Sling of course, have no problem streaming videos.
    Maybe if you actually did use ORB you might have something intelligent to say about this, but as is you've just proved your ignorance. ORB requires a fairly beefy system to work well (as stated in the FAQ on their website) and uses a fair amount of processing power while streaming. That and it's all happening on your home PC, not a beefy webserver. The other difference is that the streaming sites on the web store the media in the same format they're streamed in, while ORB has to convert everything on the fly from the stored format to streaming format. Real-time video decoding and then re-encoding takes some muscle.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I'm on Sprint, so I haven't experienced it. Not familiar with the Verizon cases. Who knows what they did, maybe they tethered their PCs? Just what sort of usage would reach any conceivable limit on these devices?
    Normal media streaming, file downloads, etc. Things that while advertised as features of the phone and network are specifically banned from use. Do a search, there've been plenty of threads about it here.

    We are here in the US trying to debate whether Palm devices are up to our needs. People here, on this eminently American forum are carping about missing features. So what are their real needs? Are they just agitating because theoretically some people in Asia are screwed or does it affect them in the real world?
    This is an American only forum? Gee, maybe I should get Surur in here so you can tell him that. TreoCentral has a huge international community, and Palm certainly markets to much more than just the USA (vodaphone exclusives, etc).
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Yeah. Some of the apps I use are no longer being developed. Other apps that should be 1st party are not really being developed at all or at least enough (email clients, browsers).

    There is no web browser with higher compatibility and in-browser flash support anywhere even close for Palm OS. Versamail is being updated VERY slowly (and still has issues for a lot of people). Snappermail had 1 release in 2 years. Chatteremail (arguably the best email client) is not in development.

    Opera Mini is in development, but it's crippled by the Palm JVM which is no longer even supported or distributed.

    Also, Glimmermail will be disabled once hotmail discontinues supporting it. The developer states they will continue development on it but there's no guarantee that it will end up being for Garnet.
    I'll be looking forward to reading a comparison once you activate it.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Am I talking to a brick wall? My whole point is that now you have to be sitting in front of your PC to do this. With WiFi you could do it anywhere in the house.
    My point is that this sort of operation is far easier to do on your PC than on your Treo regardless of how you connect. Simply usability.
    Are you a Palm apologist or something? "Sure it sucks, but it's good enough anyways...even though the competition has all addressed these issues we'll leave it as is because our customers are suckers."
    I'm not a sucker because I did not pay anything to own my Centro. The competition has added features, but are the devices as easy to use and versatile as Palm's?
    That's great for you, but I have 5 PCs and servers in my home that all have different things running on them (and some headless, which I have to access either via web dashboard, Remote Desktop, or VNC). So I use VNC all the time to check on something that's running on one PC from elsewhere in the house or to execute something. Having experienced VNC extensively via LAN and Internet, I can definitely say that there is a significant speed difference. Plus the aforementioned security risks that you apparently don't care about.
    Okay. Do you believe that your challenges are prevalent within Palm's user base?
    Maybe if you actually did use ORB you might have something intelligent to say about this, but as is you've just proved your ignorance. ORB requires a fairly beefy system to work well (as stated in the FAQ on their website) and uses a fair amount of processing power while streaming. That and it's all happening on your home PC, not a beefy webserver. The other difference is that the streaming sites on the web store the media in the same format they're streamed in, while ORB has to convert everything on the fly from the stored format to streaming format. Real-time video decoding and then re-encoding takes some muscle.
    Are you saying that re-encoding your video on Orb is more demanding than for your device to decode the original format?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Normal media streaming, file downloads, etc. Things that while advertised as features of the phone and network are specifically banned from use. Do a search, there've been plenty of threads about it here.
    Have yet to hear about this on Sprint. Maybe it's a Verizon issue afterall? Hell, Sprint even includes their own free TV service on the Centro.
    This is an American only forum? Gee, maybe I should get Surur in here so you can tell him that. TreoCentral has a huge international community, and Palm certainly markets to much more than just the USA (vodaphone exclusives, etc).
    It's not American only. But waldo15 sounded a concern about users in Asia (do they even use Palm products? Yes, I'm being ignorant here). What does that have to do with him? I want to hear from people who are experiencing difficulties and are forced to jump ship.
    Last edited by sivan; 05/07/2008 at 06:55 PM.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post

    It's not American only. But waldo15 sounded a concern about users in Asia (do they even use Palm products? Yes, I'm being ignorant here).
    Now that I can agree with!
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