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  1. #21  
    What do so-called power users need? I'm seeing people declaring that as soon as such and such device is out, they're jumping ship, without even knowing how it feels to use it. Maybe it sucks to use one handed, maybe it doesn't have a clipboard...

    I guess this sentiment is based in spec sheets mostly?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  2. #22  
    Well the Centro is definitely not marketed towards business users. So even if it is capable, they failed to market it in that direction, so they will fail to capture that audience even if it works for that purpose.

    And yeah all of the current Palm OS devices have primarily old hardware. Old bluetooth, no wifi, etc etc. Asking for simple stuff like Bluetooth 2.0 which isn't even new shouldn't be hard.
    Last edited by papped; 05/06/2008 at 04:30 PM.
  3. #23  
    i used my 680 to key in appointment really fast and efficient. if there is a more efficient way t o do it. let me know. blue tooth let me used my 680 while driving. wifi is useless on the small screen.
  4. #24  
    Don't really know why wifi would be useless. People browse, watch streaming videos or remote desktop on the 755p or Centro all the time. Screen size doesn't really have anything to do with it.
  5. #25  
    WiFi would add 50% to usability for me. When I can latch onto an Enfora sled for less than the Centro cost in the first place, I am definitely pulling it apart to do that ugly adapter hack.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Don't really know why wifi would be useless. People browse, watch streaming videos or remote desktop on the 755p or Centro all the time. Screen size doesn't really have anything to do with it.
    Okay, but when would WiFi be necessary when you have EvDO?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  7. #27  
    1 - If you go to an area where EVDO is not available.
    2 - If you do not have unlimited data.
    3 - If you are streaming which requires more bandwidth than EVDO has.
    4 - If you want to use your phone as a wireless access point.
  8. #28  
    1. You are far more likely to have EvDO than WiFi anywhere you go
    2. Who doesn't
    3. The bottleneck on mobile devices is processing power, not bandwidth
    4. Then you would use a tethered computer as the wireless access point

    I don't mind having WiFi, I just don't see the big deal.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    1. You are far more likely to have EvDO than WiFi anywhere you go
    2. Who doesn't
    3. The bottleneck on mobile devices is processing power, not bandwidth
    4. Then you would use a tethered computer as the wireless access point

    I don't mind having WiFi, I just don't see the big deal.
    You just assumed so many things are always true that are not...

    My phone can play back high resolution (far beyond 320x320) movies with perfect framerate. Yet if I stream a few mb video through Orb on EVDO I can get constant stuttering.

    Your solution for using your phone as a access point is a tethered computer + phone... Yeah that is so much more convenient and portable than just using the phone.

    And if you think everybody has unlimited data, you are more ignorant than I thought, considering some places don't even offer unlimited data plans...
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    You just assumed so many things are always true that are not...

    My phone can play back high resolution (far beyond 320x320) movies with perfect framerate. Yet if I stream a few mb video through Orb on EVDO I can get constant stuttering.
    If Sling player works with EvDO then Orb should as well.
    Your solution for using your phone as a access point is a tethered computer + phone... Yeah that is so much more convenient and portable than just using the phone.
    I don't get it. You want to use your phone as a wireless access point...presumably for a bunch of computers. But you think that having one of them serve as the access point is a stretch?
    And if you think everybody has unlimited data, you are more ignorant than I thought, considering some places don't even offer unlimited data plans...
    Which places? Are these carriers even offer Palm phones? Okay, I know in Europe it's different, so...
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  11. #31  
    I don't get it. You want to use your phone as a wireless access point...presumably for a bunch of computers. But you think that having one of them serve as the access point is a stretch?
    Why for a bunch of computers only? Your use cases don't = everyone else.

    Plain and simple.

    You don't see a use for wifi, other people do. So I really doubt they care that you don't at all.

    Verizon unlimited data plans costing $40+ a month, I would wager someone out there (by someone I mean many people) don't have unlimited data plans. But yeah, it's much more likely that everyone has unlimited data....

    Which places? Are these carriers even offer Palm phones? Okay, I know in Europe it's different, so...
    Centro GSM = whole world. They only sold oh, 1 million + units?
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Why for a bunch of computers only? Your use cases don't = everyone else.

    Plain and simple.

    You don't see a use for wifi, other people do. So I really doubt they care that you don't at all.
    So, what's your use case for the access point?

    Centro GSM = whole world. They only sold oh, 1 million + units?
    I would not get a GSM phone until AT&T rolls out HSDPA. The people who do, don't care about network speed.

    I'm trying to understand what's behind the disappointment with Palm. Obviously the devices are working very well, are very easy to use and offer almost everything one needs to use for a very attractive price in a compact device.

    Yes, I want GPS and full BT2, and a fancier looking plastic cover.

    But really, what's all the griping about?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  13. #33  
    Argh!! Will people ever get it in their head that WiFi isn't all about internet!!!

    WiFi has countless uses in a LAN setup that have nothing to do with the internet, but instead interacting with other computers on your personal network. File transfer, Hotsync (you can do it through Bluetooth but at a drastically decreased range and speed), VNC, media streaming, remote control, the list goes on.

    Am I the only one here that actually uses my LAN for networking instead of just sharing internet access? I'd like to do all those things on my Treo, instead of having to lug my laptop around the house or to bed with me.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  14. #34  
    The reason is probably that more people do even "network sharing" through tcp/ip, rather than on the local network. Also a lot of people do file transfers with beams etc.

    But yeah, you can use it for that stuff also.

    Lugging around my laptop (or worse if you don't own a laptop) is not a valid wireless access point solution...
  15. waldo15's Avatar
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    #35  
    Indeed folks get hellbent on declaring WiFi a redundant technology once you have 3/3.5G. They fail to see the much larger picture:

    - "Unlimited data" in the US is a travesty. You cannot go over a set limit of GB per month. This is true for any data plan in any network. Also, the contract states that it is limited to only email and web browsing. Of course many of us use it outside of those bounds (i.e. Sling), but officially the device should not be streaming media, not VNC, or file transfers of any sort. Does WiFi has that cap in smartphones with that ability? The concept does not even exist.

    - Outside of the US, data plans are very expensive. In Europe they charge insane fees per kB . Asia does not have 3G implemented, except Japan and South Korea where their 3.5/4G networks make the US ones look like child's play. So next time you are in an international trip (heck, just cross the border!) you will find yourself roaming, while WiFi is universal. Besides, which is more expensive: roaming charges or a ticket for WiFi access in a cafe?

    - BT implementation in smartphones is crippled, to the extent that the stack is not complete so you may not be able to do file transfers that easily, OBEX exchange, the list goes on. WiFi opens the opportunity to have all of that at much faster speeds and longer distances.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Argh!! Will people ever get it in their head that WiFi isn't all about internet!!!

    WiFi has countless uses in a LAN setup that have nothing to do with the internet, but instead interacting with other computers on your personal network. File transfer, Hotsync (you can do it through Bluetooth but at a drastically decreased range and speed), VNC, media streaming, remote control, the list goes on.

    Am I the only one here that actually uses my LAN for networking instead of just sharing internet access? I'd like to do all those things on my Treo, instead of having to lug my laptop around the house or to bed with me.
    Maybe an actual example would help me understand. What have you done or wanted to do recently that made you wish you had WiFi?

    I have WiFi at home. I use my Centro around the house, it has most of my music on its card, I have Jabra BT if I need more than that. In bed I often stream internet radio, podcasts or videos. In the office I use VPN and VNC with no problem. I often use BT for HotSync.

    What other kinds of interactions are you thinking about with your home network? What files do you need to transfer to your Treo around the house or in bed?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Lugging around my laptop (or worse if you don't own a laptop) is not a valid wireless access point solution...
    ?

    My understanding of a wireless access point is of a hub that lets other devices access a network over WiFi. Presumably those devices are computers, but correct me if I'm wrong. What devices do you see accessing the wireless access point on your phone?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  18. #38  
    Why is it necessary for you to understand? People offer examples of how they want use it, your response is that they aren't specific enough.

    Nobody is trying to get you to develop wifi for them, so why bother getting you to understand?
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo15 View Post
    Indeed folks get hellbent on declaring WiFi a redundant technology once you have 3/3.5G. They fail to see the much larger picture:

    - "Unlimited data" in the US is a travesty. You cannot go over a set limit of GB per month. This is true for any data plan in any network. Also, the contract states that it is limited to only email and web browsing. Of course many of us use it outside of those bounds (i.e. Sling), but officially the device should not be streaming media, not VNC, or file transfers of any sort. Does WiFi has that cap in smartphones with that ability? The concept does not even exist.
    I stream data all the time, have yet to run into limitations. I don't know how much data I use, I don't care. Unlimited data.
    - Outside of the US, data plans are very expensive. In Europe they charge insane fees per kB . Asia does not have 3G implemented, except Japan and South Korea where their 3.5/4G networks make the US ones look like child's play. So next time you are in an international trip (heck, just cross the border!) you will find yourself roaming, while WiFi is universal. Besides, which is more expensive: roaming charges or a ticket for WiFi access in a cafe?
    Are you posting from Asia or Europe? What's it to you? You're not taking your CDMA phone anywhere. If you have GSM you already decided to forgo fast data.
    - BT implementation in smartphones is crippled, to the extent that the stack is not complete so you may not be able to do file transfers that easily, OBEX exchange, the list goes on. WiFi opens the opportunity to have all of that at much faster speeds and longer distances.
    Give examples.

    Again, trying to understand the griping. So far, I'm not seeing the pain, only envy and urge to have something new to play with regardless of real need.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by papped View Post
    Why is it necessary for you to understand? People offer examples of how they want use it, your response is that they aren't specific enough.

    Nobody is trying to get you to develop wifi for them, so why bother getting you to understand?
    I asked what's so important about having WiFi in a 3G phone. You don't have to reply if you don't want. Good luck with your WiFi developments.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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