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  1. #21  
    So how come there's no cut and paste like touch screen smartphones? No way to delete individual calls or texts, like on MOST phones? No IM? No call screening features?

    Palm OS is indeed ancient, but how can you leave out basic features like the iPhone did?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    So how come there's no cut and paste like touch screen smartphones? No way to delete individual calls or texts, like on MOST phones? No IM? No call screening features?

    Palm OS is indeed ancient, but how can you leave out basic features like the iPhone did?
    Because Apple is on Rev 1.0 of Mobile OSX. It is now pretty limited, but what it does, it does okay-to-excellent. And the foundation is very solid. And bottomline, its selling like crazy. So its silly to call it a "dumbphone", even though Rev 1.0 isn't as "smart" as PalmOS or WM right now -- its obvious "smart" in a lot of ways that customers care about...

    And what of POSII... it isn't even on Rev 1.0... can you be so sure that the released version of POSII, more than 1 year(!) from now, will be as "smart" as PalmOS/Garnet is now ... or iPhone/OSX 1 year down the road ?

    If Palm actually *could have* released POSII in a phone 8 months ago (concurrent with the release of the iPhone), but was missing these same "basic features" (cut/paste, IM, etc), would you have advised Palm NOT to release POSII until those features were in place ?
  3. #23  
    I'd say iPhone's in between a smart and a dumb phone. They left out too many basics that even dumb phones have, but added some that almost no other phone has.

    Palm OS II better be a complete OS, or Palm is finished!! If they release an OS with no cut and paste(and that's just one thing it better include), they will NOT get away with it so easily since Palm OS is expected to be used for business.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. #24  
    I own both a palm centro and an iPhone and I like both of them. It almost goes without saying that I would like to have (and probably will within a few months) copy/paste (<--a huge oversight in my opinion), IM and call screening functions on the iPhone. Still, considering what the iPhone can do (and has the potential to do), does the lack of those functions exclude the iPhone from being considered a smartphone? If that's the case, then as soon as the iPhone is updated to include (some or all) those functions will that automatically make it a smartphone?

    So my argument wouldn't be that the iPhone is the best smartphone for everyone, rather that it is a "smartphone" by any reasonable standard. Let's consider some of the things that might garner it that distinction:

    -multi touch screen (zoom in and out)
    -Ipod
    -camera phone
    -visual voicemail
    -wifi
    -email client
    -personal organizer
    -ability to read variety of file formats
    -advanced web browser
    -google maps
    -virtual keyboard
    -proximity sensor (shuts off display when phone is near face)
    -ambient light sensor
    -accelerometer (senses orientation of the screen)
    -desktop synchronization

    Now having some of these characteristics or lacking some of them might not make a phone either a smartphone or not a smartphone, but having all of them together in the iPhone's form factor would seem to indicate that it's reasonable to call it a smartphone.
    Last edited by paulsjmail; 02/17/2008 at 06:46 PM.
  5. #25  
    I need to filter calls, texts and contacts for business, and it's impossible on the iPhone. I'm not even sure it will connect to my domain email properly. I can't IM my contacts if need be, one contact has to send an SMS through AIM to get to me. I had to relegate iPhone to a personal use phone only. If I cannot use a phone for basic business, it's not a smartphone to me. But it's a great feature phone.

    BTW, many dumb phones have those features too. We just don't get them here in the US through our backwards carriers. But they're available unlocked.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #26  
    Isn't it also worth noting that it seems that phones are (or already have depending on your view) transitioning from devices that we use as an aid (such as business or management of some sort) to mere adult toys? Their existance depends on a simplistic nature & high entertainment value?

    Recently I was in the chiropractic office and was asked about my phone (Treo 650). Specifically I was asked two questions (by a girl in her early twenties):

    1 - Do you like your phone?
    2 - Does it have a camera?

    That's it. Out of all the questions in the world to ask, she asked if it had a camera on it. She reduced my smartphone down to an over-priced phone with a camera.


    I think the phrase smart phone is obsolete and simply should be termed, play phone.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Palm OS II better be a complete OS, or Palm is finished!!
    I'm as eager to see a solid POSII 1.0 release as anyone, but...

    Name *one* OS that was "complete" with its 1.0 debut release. I guess you probably don't remember PalmOS 1.0... or Windows 1.0 or Unix circa 1970, or DOS 1.0 or BSD 1.0 or WinCE 1.0... or the first PalmOS phone... I don't of any 1.0 release that could be considered anywhere near "complete"...

    Which is why I find all the heavy criticism of Apple's 1.0 release of the iPhone/OSX lacking a bit in perspective... better to *release* 1.0 of *something*, even if it isn't perfect, than wait for years releasing *nothing*...
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
    Oh yeah, professor, how is that. The iphone runs on mobile OSX which is 1000 times more advanced and smarter then the ancient, Palm OS. I realize you must love your door stop, but its a relic from the past. Time to move on to bigger and better things.

    P.S. I was a former 700P owner and now use the BB 8830. So I'm not an iphone fan boy. I just hate it when people make stupid comments like you.
    I'm running a winmob treo, thank you very much, And I like having the availability of a lot of good proven applications to expand my phone's functionality - not having an incomplete toy that is very good for web browsing, but crippled by the slow network speeds it can attain.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    I'm as eager to see a solid POSII 1.0 release as anyone, but...

    Name *one* OS that was "complete" with its 1.0 debut release. I guess you probably don't remember PalmOS 1.0... or Windows 1.0 or Unix circa 1970, or DOS 1.0 or BSD 1.0 or WinCE 1.0... or the first PalmOS phone... I don't of any 1.0 release that could be considered anywhere near "complete"...

    Which is why I find all the heavy criticism of Apple's 1.0 release of the iPhone/OSX lacking a bit in perspective... better to *release* 1.0 of *something*, even if it isn't perfect, than wait for years releasing *nothing*...

    Apple's been around and should know what to put on a phone!!!

    No ability to delete individual calls and texts, are you kidding me? That's a BASIC on every phone BUT the iPhone!

    No cut and paste on a phone like this, are you kidding me? This is another BASIC on a touchscreen supposed smartphone!

    No IM and I think no MMS either, on a multi-media phone? Are you kidding me???

    No video capture on a multi-media phone? Are you kidding me???

    No stereo bluetooth either, even the new RAZR2 has that!!


    I'm sorry but Apple missed the basics while giving us an "innovative" phone. The new features it did include are great, but don't forget the basics!
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 02/18/2008 at 04:43 PM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Apple's been around and should know what to put on a phone!!!
    ...I'm sorry but Apple missed the basics while giving us an "innovative" phone. The new features it did include are great, but don't forget the basics!
    I noticed you didn't actually answer any of the posed questions...
    1) Name *one* (mobile) OS that was "complete" with its 1.0 debut release.

    2) If Palm actually *could have* released POSII in a phone 8 months ago (concurrent with the release of the iPhone), but was missing these same "basic features" (cut/paste, IM, etc), would you have advised Palm NOT to release POSII until those features were in place ?

    I'm quite sure Apple accepts your criticism of the iPhone... all the way to the bank... Too bad we won't have anything parallel to criticize Palm about for another whole YEAR...
  11. #31  
    I must not communicate well. Perhaps I shouldn't have said "complete" but my points are about leaving out basic features. There's no excuse for that, NONE!

    About question 1, honestly I may not be old enough to have used all the OS released. So I can't answer that.

    About question 2, if Palm released an OS missing the basics, they'd be dead. They won't get the free pass Apple received, they don't have the charisma.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post


    About question 2, if Palm released an OS missing the basics, they'd be dead. They won't get the free pass Apple received, they don't have the charisma.

    Or the legion of lemmings that hang on every word King Jobs utters.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Perhaps I shouldn't have said "complete" but my points are about leaving out basic features. There's no excuse for that, NONE!

    About question 1, honestly I may not be old enough to have used all the OS released. So I can't answer that.

    About question 2, if Palm released an OS missing the basics, they'd be dead. They won't get the free pass Apple received, they don't have the charisma.
    Doesn't matter that you don't know *all* the OSs released because the fact (and point) is that NO OS ever released got it all right (and "complete") on the first go-round. Even PalmOS phones from a few years ago didn't have IM'ing. And most(all?) WM/Smartphones don't have useable cut/paste.

    There are a lot of people out there that wouldn't consider cut/paste or IM'ing to be essential, deal-breakers. My point is that Apple was right (obviously) to release the iPhone earlier, even if it didn't have all of what you consider to be "basic" features, rather than wait. And that Palm would in fact be better off releasing its PalmOS sooner rather than later, even if it wasn't "complete".

    It may already be too late... I think the market window for POSII is closing so fast it isn't funny... Perhaps the only thing that might salvage POSII from being just a niche market is if there come a LiMO-like standard for Linux mobile apps that POSII can support along side its proprietary stuff.

    Does the Treo 500v have cut/paste ?
  14. #34  
    YOU'RE the one who said "answer the question, Name *one* (mobile) OS that was "complete" with its 1.0 debut release.
    ", so I answered your question! I don't know since I had no knowledge or access to all of them.

    WM Professional touchscreen phones DO have cut and paste, and that is why I'm confused as to why Apple didn't put it on a touchscreen phone. The only reason why I mention IM in regards to the iPhone is because of the type of phone it really is, a multi-media phone for social usage. No IM/MMS is ridiculous for a phone like that! The first Palm OS phones didn't have IM because they were probably all business oriented at the time.

    Like I said before, Apple has to know what phones have on them and to leave out basics makes me scratch my head. I'm not making excuses that this is their first go around, because anyone can look at phones to see what the basic features are!! Apple people are supposed to be even more knowledgable. I mean, no individual call and text delete feature, WHAT??? I never owned a phone like that, even the supposed crap phone RAZR(although I never had a problem with it) has that!!

    As for Palm, they had plenty of time to release a new OS anyway. They up. So we have to wait another year. By that time, the new WM and Android could be out. But still Palm should NOT release an OS missing key features because this is their last chance to hit a home run. Or they will go under faster than a person who can't swim! So no, they better not release anything yet, even though they're already seriously late. They cannot get away with the stuff Apple does, plain and simple. That's why the half-cooked Foleo got dumped and good thing too! People are no longer interested in Palm's half cooked products. They got away with it when there was nothing better, but that's not so anymore.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoconvert View Post
    Or the legion of lemmings that hang on every word King Jobs utters.
    He's able to do that because he has style and charisma, like him or not. Some people have it, some *cough*Palm*cough* just don't. I can't explain it, but Jobs has somehow turned Apple into a fashion statement. And Palm just continues to look stale. Although the Centro may help change their image a bit.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. pump142's Avatar
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    #36  
    [QUOTE=ronbo2000;1409661]I believe setting up expectations and meeting it within reasonable delivery is the key.

    Apple users and consumers (me included) have been presented with what the product would be like and delivered a product that delivered as promised and wowed the users with a cool UI.

    Handspring did that on the 600 and kinda promised something in the 650 but fell far short of the consumer expectations due to the resets and loss of subtle functionalities that existed previously. QUOTE]

    well said
    M505 -> M515 -> Kyo6035 -> Kyo 7135 -> Treo 600 ->Treo 650 -> Treo 700P -> Treo 700 WX -> Samsung Saga VZW
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    WM Professional touchscreen phones DO have cut and paste, and that is why I'm confused as to why Apple didn't put it on a touchscreen phone.
    There it is, right there... comparing WM/Pro phones like the Touch, with the iPhone... and guess what ? EVERY CONSUMER-oriented comparison between the Touch and the iPhone has clearly concluded that the Touch (or its WM bretheren) come up woefully short of the iPhone. The WM/PPC phones like the Touch were never actually designed to be TOUCH-driven phones, and boy does it show. They were designed to be STYLI-driven phones. And CUT/PASTE is straightforward with a STYLUS. But it is far from easy using a FINGER.

    Apple designed a real TOUCH phone, complete with multi-touch and accelerometers, and matching software and apps. The truth is that WM/PPC phones are nothing like the iPhone, despite the superficial commonality of having a "touch screen". And so it is clear that Apple placed a much higher priority on the full touch experience and they probably didn't figure out how to incorporate cut/paste into that (yet?).

    And it is also clear that cut/paste isn't all that essential, compared with the other priorities. The success of the WM/Smartphones demonstrates that as well. In fact Palm must agree, having released the Treo 500v.

    You want to talk about "missing basic features", How about a real, full-page rendering browser ? I personally consider that a far more important "basic feature" than IM or cut/paste. All Palm delivers is the miserable Blazer. And WM's PIE isn't much to cheer about either.

    (for the record, my primary phone now is the Touch, and I do not own an iPhone...)
  18. #38  
    How about not at a snail's pace, like on EDGE? I open up pages on 3G in a snap and while they may not be the full HTML page all the time, I don't care. I don't mind WAP on a small screen. But I also don't wait. iPhone is slow to open pages and you still have to enlarge them to see what you're doing. As for browsers, Opera or Opera Mini, really nice for most phones. PIE also isn't THAT horrible, as people want you to believe.

    Cut and paste, great for emails, texts and sometimes IM.

    And also how about some alarms that actually work, Apple?

    But gorgeous screen and design, even though my WM phones have been 100 times more useful when I had serious stuff to do. If I ever want to watch a lot of TV on my phone, I'll use the iPhone more. Probably when they get the 3G one out though.

    And yes, I do own one and that's how I know it's shortcomings. Unless your business is listening to music, watching YouTube and surfing, then it's fine.

    P.S. Maybe I was a bit unfair. If you have to do a LOT of surfing and have no computer available, then the iPhone is better on the eyes. But it's still slow rendering full pages. Also, it may work for you if you're in a business where you don't have to screen calls.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 02/19/2008 at 03:39 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    How about not at a snail's pace, like on EDGE? ...As for browsers, Opera or Opera Mini, really nice for most phones. PIE also isn't THAT horrible, as people want you to believe.
    ... If I ever want to watch a lot of TV on my phone, I'll use the iPhone more. Probably when they get the 3G one out though.
    Re: EDGE -- yes of course Apple's gotten flack for EDGE, but also know that that decision was completely understandable, given 1) choice of AT&T (VZW turning Apple down), and the immature state of AT&T's 3G network 8 mos ago, (indeed the immature and mutually incompatible state of 3G GSM around the world), and 2) the priority of long battery life (the iPhone's battery life is worlds better than any other smart/semi-smart phone).

    Re: Opera, PIE -- PIE is ok only in comparison to browsers like Blazer. I *never* use PIE on my WM devices unless I have to. Mostly I use Opera and Opera Mini. I like Picsel, but its not ready for primetime. And bring this back to Palm... Palm thinks that Blazer is acceptable (sheesh). And while its possible to get Opera Mini to work on Treo/Centro, Palm certainly doesn't make it easy... it can't even include and support a decent, stable JVM for Opera Mini to use... talk about "missing basic features"... I add a respectable JVM to that list... And *many* would add WiFI to that list of "basic features" that Palm can't bring itself to deliver... So I think I'd say that Palm/Centro/Treo is missing just about as many "basic features" as the iPhone is... obviously it all depends on your point of view and what one *personally* considers "basic features"...

    Re: TV -- obviously Slingbox all the way. You can be sure that Sling will port SPM to the iPhone once the 3rd party SDK stuff is stable and available.
  20. #40  
    Here comes the iPhone killer.

    www.skyfire.com
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