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  1.    #1  
    I came across this quote by some very optimistic fellow. It is quite characteristic of the misplaced confidence I and many others have had in Plam (yes, Plam!) over the years:

    "Once Palm finishes their next-generation Linux operating system the situation will be different. At that point, Palm may leapfrog everybody out there."

    Fat chance! Plam's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is legendary. They squandered the lead Handspring gave them with the Treo line and now they're saying its going to be at least a year before the new Plam OS is ready and then months after that before they deliver new devices based on new OS!

    People, the Plam corpse has been rotting for a long time now. The end is inevitable and the conclusion foregone. When compared with what's out there, even some not-so-smart phones, Frankie (Frankengarnet) just feels and is completely clunky and outdated. I do not see how any executive in their right mind could think that they could depend upon Frankie to take them through all of 2008.

    Since I'm in the mood for prognosticating, here are some predictions to chew on:

    1. The iPhone (I know it's alot of eye candy and marketing overhyped goobledeegook) is a force to be reckoned with. When compared with the first Treo releases, this platform has had a phenomenal start. With the 3G release scheduled for next year and the promise of more 3rd party apps, it will only mature and gobble up market share.

    2. WM6 (despite you naysayers) is a very good, very fast, very versatile OS - far better than Frankie could ever be. Watch for Windows devices to proliferate the market.

    3. After the debacle with the Fooleo with the concomitant wasted development resources and the latest quarter's abyssmal numbers, I think either Plam will be taken over or Ed will be given the boot he so richly deserves. It's time for a change.

    4. Unfortunately, like those really bad "horror" movies of the 80's, Plam will not stay dead; it will stay around to haunt us for a few more sequels. This might be the one case where I would be for euthanasia and lead coffins.

    'Nuff said.

    Feel free to add your own predictions or criticize mine!
    Last edited by treo...not!; 12/29/2007 at 02:20 AM. Reason: Added invitation
  2. #2  
    The old "nail in coffin" crap is beyond old. If you want to post this kind of crap, put it in a general non-Treo forum, this is pointless drivel.
  3. #3  
    OK if you want predictions.

    I think iPhone has made smartphone mainstream, meaning the most popular smartphones will be from Samsung/Motorola/Nokia. Half of them will be running on closed platforms.

    If you don't think those phones I describe are "real" smartphones, neither is the iPhone. Its a closed platform not disimilar to iChat or the AppleTV environment. You still won't get half of the 3rd party apps you love on the new and improved 3G iPhone.

    As for the market share of the "traditional smartphoen platforms", BB/WM/POS, in my opinion will remain relatively the same. There has been very little excitement coming from these platforms in 2007 and will remain that way next year.

    In other words, POS won't die yet, sorry to disappoint you.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    The old "nail in coffin" crap is beyond old. If you want to post this kind of crap, put it in a general non-Treo forum, this is pointless drivel.
    LOL, you slay me! I guess I really hit a nerve for you to respond so vehemently but without any convincing logic. If you want to discuss the merits of my predictions, fine. Otherwise, unless you have something worthwhile to say, I suggest you just not post. Simple. I won't be disappointed, honest!

    As for the "nail in coffin" bit; that's your old tired cliche, not mine.
    Last edited by treo...not!; 12/24/2007 at 11:46 PM.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post

    In other words, POS won't die yet, sorry to disappoint you.
    See point #4: "Plam will not stay dead." That's not a disappointment to me; it's a sad reality. Plam continues to limp on like the undead from Resident Evil.
  6. #6  
    This is getting old...Merry Christmas
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

    My beer blogs:

    Rev. Rhino on Flickr

    Rev. Rhino on Twitter
  7. #7  
    palm won't stay dead because the competition simply hasn't passed them by yet. There's not a Centro killer on the market right now.

    Currently, the Centro is the best smartphone out there. There's a few features others can do, and do it well versus the Centro..but then you start compromising.

    Obviously, that won't stay true forever, but it's true right now.
  8. #8  
    HEHEHE

    These types of threads/posts are fodder for some minor entertainment.

    Someone should tell my Sprint 700p and Centro that Palm is dead, the last nail has been driven and the OS is old and stale and shouldn't be working.

    I have my 700p and Centro set up the way I want them and they work flawlessly.

    So until my Palm device light totally goes out, I'll continue to use Palm and laugh at these threads

    Merry Christmas T|C

    .
  9.    #9  
    Well I still have my 600 and 650. Both work (though it took several warranty replacements each to find ones that did) , but there is no way that I would recommend a Plam OS device. For me, friends don't let friends buy Plam OS devices. That is, of course, if you want to maintain the friendship.

    Seriously though, and I mean this sincerely, would any of you staunch Plam supporters really recommend that someone buy a Plam OS device in 2008?
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    Well I still have my 600 and 650. Both work (though it took several warranty replacements each to find ones that did) , but there is no way that I would recommend a Plam OS device. For me, friends don't let friends buy Plam OS devices. That is, of course, if you want to maintain the friendship.

    Seriously though, and I mean this sincerely, would any of you staunch Plam supporters really recommend that someone buy a Plam OS device in 2008?
    I certainly would as my 755 (and Centro) do everything I need them to do. What are you asking of your phone that it cannot provide?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post

    Seriously though, and I mean this sincerely, would any of you staunch Plam supporters really recommend that someone buy a Plam OS device in 2008?
    Yep, I have several friends and family members using Palm OS phones.

    The funny thing is, I don't have to "sell" Palm phones. Most people (strangers) that see me using my 700p or Centro in a coffee shop or restaurant or where ever I am, want to know what that device is that I am using.

    Then I end up demonstrating all that these phones can do.

    Most are amazed when I pull up a net radio stream with pTunes 4.0.5 on the Centro and hear it playing on the Centro rear speaker.

    Then they want to know the exact name of the device, what carrier and how much it costs.

    Of course, having the ability to figure out what you did to your chosen device and to get it working extremely well is a must.



    Edit:

    treo....not, if you want to know what apps I use and how I have things set up on the 700p and Centro, tap the link below and scroll down to reply 18 and 19.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ht=apps+Centro

    Many apps have been updated on the Centro since I posted that list in Oct.
    Last edited by treotraveler; 12/25/2007 at 12:16 PM.
  12. #12  
    As long as there are 5-6 "Treo-killers" each year that fail to meet the mark, Palm will still rule the roost. Trolls like the OP never have an answer for that one.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    As long as there are 5-6 "Treo-killers" each year that fail to meet the mark, Palm will still rule the roost. Trolls like the OP never have an answer for that one.
    Now is the name calling really necessary? "Killer" is in the eye of the beholder, and in my eyes, POS has died a long time ago.
  14. #14  
    Then why complain now? Waiting years later to make a thread about it seems silly to me..lol
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by JSchu22 View Post
    I certainly would as my 755 (and Centro) do everything I need them to do. What are you asking of your phone that it cannot provide?
    Below are the reasons why I could not presently recommend a Palm OS device and why I think that without dramatic changes at Palm's head (specifically, the removal of Mr. Ed), the company will continue to flounder - Centro or no Centro.

    I could live with a few of these issues, but when they are taken together as a whole, I feel I cannot in good conscience give my approval for the purchase of such a device. Centro is an OK piece of equipment, but when it's compared to the competition it continues to be seriously lacking. Had it emerged 2+ years ago, it would have been impressive. Now it's a yawn.

    Now before you guys jump the gun with ad hominem attacks, please note that I was a loyal Palm customer and early adopter for years. I also worked as a tech consultant and highly recommended the Treo 650 to clients.

    But then Palm's competition overtook it. I tried to remain loyal, and like most of the great people in this forum I was hoping for the best. But I began to notice that Palm was not really interested in developing cutting edge products; they seemed satisfied just to coast and to live on past successes. Not only did they not innovate; they refused to address the well-documented issues and limitations of Frankengarnet.

    Well, here are my concerns with POS:

    1. Very poor bluetooth implementation: A2DP, need I say more?
    2. Little serious OS development that's made its way to the market in the past 2+ years
    3. Extremely limited multi-tasking (By comparison, on my current device I can listen to streaming audio on bluetooth headphones while surfing the web, downloading a file, and syncing with my exchange server. Oh, I am also IM'ing with my buddies.)
    3. Totally lame internet browser
    4. Did anybody say WiFi? (That's too much to ask. Nobody needs that! Well I'm nobody and I need it.)
    5. Clunky, outdated, unintuitive interface
    6. Poor file management system
    7. Numerous inexplicable resets!
    8. Huge build quality issues (How many Treos have you returned via warranty exchange?)
    9. A company that's bleeding market share
    10. Palm's tacit acknowledgement of its OS's weakness on account of its use of WM OS (Seriously, can you imagine Wendy's selling McDonald's fries?!)
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Then why complain now? Waiting years later to make a thread about it seems silly to me..lol
    Cardfan, you've made my point. Its been at least two years since I became disgusted with Plam and Plam has not dealt with these issues! These problems should have been addressed by now! In the tech world two years is an eternity. Just think about the digital camera you bought two years ago and compare it to those available now.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    3. Extremely limited multi-tasking (By comparison, on my current device I can listen to streaming audio on bluetooth headphones while surfing the web, downloading a file, and syncing with my exchange server. Oh, I am also IM'ing with my buddies.)
    I am doing this on my clunky Treo 650!!
    Streaming in PTunes, using SAG to listen to it on my S9, reading NYT on Blazer, while Chatter downloads my e-mail in the background. !!!

    So there.

    PS: You do have to be careful to use good category-leading software, not some ancient POS legacy stuff.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    Cardfan, you've made my point. Its been at least two years since I became disgusted with Plam and Plam has not dealt with these issues! These problems should have been addressed by now! In the tech world two years is an eternity. Just think about the digital camera you bought two years ago and compare it to those available now.
    And yet WM6 is so far behind PalmOS in so many categories. Makes you wonder just how lazy the guys at M$ really are that they still can't beat a dead OS that hasn't changed in years.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsxprime View Post
    And yet WM6 is so far behind PalmOS in so many categories. Makes you wonder just how lazy the guys at M$ really are that they still can't beat a dead OS that hasn't changed in years.
    How many players, besides Palm, are continuing to pay license fees to the OS owner, ACCESS? Sustainable growth is the name of the game.

    The people whistling past the graveyard are such a riot.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    Well, here are my concerns with POS:
    Just to balance the scale:

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    1. Very poor bluetooth implementation: A2DP, need I say more?
    Agreed (regarding AD2P). Also something that the iPhone is lacking. I use SAG, it seems to work pretty well.

    The bluetooth implementation in the latest devices (including Treo 700p MR) is rather nice. I like the way that it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    2. Little serious OS development that's made its way to the market in the past 2+ years
    I'd probably put the blame on the fact that Palm did not have control over the OS for the last 3-4 years. Kind of hard to make major updates if you don't have control.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    3. Extremely limited multi-tasking (By comparison, on my current device I can listen to streaming audio on bluetooth headphones while surfing the web, downloading a file, and syncing with my exchange server. Oh, I am also IM'ing with my buddies.)
    That seems to be a lot of work to be putting on a device with limited processing capabilities, and limited memory.

    Since the exchange server and IM conversations probably happen sporadically, it is safe to ignore these events. Surfing the web generally tends to be an "in-between" activity, so that we'll pair with downloading a file. That leaves listening to streaming audio over bluetooth and downloading left (streaming audio over bluetooth, even off of a memory card, is a CPU hog). So far, my Treo can do all of the actions you stated as well. I would say that, at the moment (with the exception of the iPhone, but at the moment it is in its own class as well), there is no device that can multi-task well (I am all too familiar with Windows Mobile's "Out of memory" errors and "multi-tasking" sluggishness.

    Also, to echo what aprasad said.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    3. Totally lame internet browser
    I won't disagree with you on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    4. Did anybody say WiFi? (That's too much to ask. Nobody needs that! Well I'm nobody and I need it.)
    Another point that I won't disagree on.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    5. Clunky, outdated, unintuitive interface
    Sounds like a description of Windows Mobile to me. :/ The PalmOS UI is actually rather intuitive. What isn't intuitive may be software that a third party develops.

    I can say from experience, the Windows Mobile UI is the complete opposite of intuitive. I'd hate to use a WM device as my primary device.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    6. Poor file management system
    This is debatable. Actually, if you really look at it, PalmOS devices since the Palm Tungsten T5 (essentially any NVFS device) have real file systems. There is a mount called "BuiltIn." In this mount is the "/PALM_DM" directory that is where all old style files are written (using the Data Manager or File APIs). Third party apps, I believe, are welcome to write to BuiltIn.

    Also, developers do have the option to use a memory card. Most users have at least one.

    I am sure that as long as most users can cram their important files onto a memory card and use that then that is all that they care about. Also, it helps with the "operator error" issues (like the "oops! was that a file that I wasn't supposed to delete?" responses). Only show the user what he/she put there, and not the OS files.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    7. Numerous inexplicable resets!
    Insert my point for outdated OS. Also, third party developer testing. So far I have gotten rid of most of my resets, or at least, I have not seen many of them. Most were the result of just poorly written third party applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    8. Huge build quality issues (How many Treos have you returned via warranty exchange?)
    0

    I have owned many PalmOS devices, and directly bought a Tungsten T3, TX and Treo 700p. I have yet to return any of them. I am quite pleased with my Treo 700p.

    I think that most people are extremely picky (I will admit that I am, as well, but I do give slack because I understand the development process), and don't understand that as long as humans develop products then there will be flaws. Also, most people do not understand that with extremely small components in a device then you will have a high chance of failure (a small spec of dust is all that it takes to ruin a chip).

    I am sure that many people return devices from other manufacturers as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    9. A company that's bleeding market share
    Well, this seems to be a common event when Microsoft gets involved. Look at the desktop OS history.

    Quote Originally Posted by treo...not! View Post
    10. Palm's tacit acknowledgement of its OS's weakness on account of its use of WM OS (Seriously, can you imagine Wendy's selling McDonald's fries?!)
    Palm (Ed Colligan) has even stated why they brought Windows Mobile into use. Many business users wanted it for use with Exchange. If you notice, all of the Windows Mobile devices are targeted to users who work in a midsize business to enterprise and have a large IT department that uses Exchange. Palm has yet to release a consumer level device (i.e. Treo 680 or Centro) running Windows Mobile.

    Also, your analogy does not work, since up to this point (and beyond 2004ish, when it mattered), Palm did not develop their own OS, instead they were an OEM. A slightly better example would be Wendy's deciding to use potatoes that McDonald's uses as well as another brand (yet, a fry analogy does not work since fry eaters cannot be broken into two separate categories in the same way that mobile OS users can (business and regular consumers)).


    Now, I need to get back to work.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
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