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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    See I just view this as spin, Rome. Honestly. It's like attempting to defend people who's incompetence is simply indefensible.

    I don't give Ed credit just because he has been through some tough times with palm. Its most likely BECAUSE of Ed that palm went through those tough times, Rome.

    Meeting Ed has nothing to do with judging his performance with this company. Whether or not I've ever met him is completely irrelevant here.

    A great ceo is one who can assess problems within his company in a timely manner, and in doing so, changes the company's status as a lagging dog flailing in the market space to a leading competitor with its peers.

    Palm has been a loser for many years now, Rome. We're not just talking about a few errant rough patches here and there. They have been on a steady, downward trend and have been stubborn in their business approach.

    Stubbornly sticking with an obvious faulty, losing strategy without taking advice until the company is on the brink here does NOT a great ceo make. He should have been removed YEARS ago due to the demonstrated incompetence in handling a product with the potential the treo had.

    I don't care if that is harsh. That's just the way it is. You don't keep a ceo in place just because you feel bad for the guy or like him. If they can't get it job done, they're gone
    Allow me to use football as an anology. The Pittsburgh Steelers have been one of the most successful franchises in NFL, and one of the main reasons is the long tenures of its head coachs. Steelers have gone through some tough patches over the years, but they don't fire a coach just because he had one or two rough seasons.

    Ed and Palm/Handspring had made some mistakes, not doubt about it. Which company hasn't? How about Apple? The darling of tech world right now. Apple pratically invented the first Personal Computer and commercialized many of the key PC technologies (mouse and GUI are the first two things that come to mind). What's Apple's current market share of the PC market? 5 or 6%.

    It is easy to just fire a CEO and then bring in someone new when a comany runs into problems. More often than not, this type of strategy fails.

    One final point - Palm was mainly a PDA company when it bought handspring and brought back the original palm management team of Hawkins, Dubinsky, and Colligan. Today, palm is mainly a smartphone with its PDA business declining rapidly. I don't know about you, but it is not easy to transform a company from one product to another while killing its origianl product in the process.

    Palm has quite a way to go before it regains its former glory, but its pending demise has been greatly exaggerated, as in several occasions before.
  2. #42  
    I honestly think Colligan is less of a factor now in the future of Palm than Rubenstein. Until that WSJ article, I didn't know Rubenstein's exact role and influence on Palm--but "Head of research, development and engineering" is a significant a good position for his abilities--a lot more than just a board member. I understand Colligan is a name everyone knows (just about the only one) and since he's the head, he's the most likely target for vehemence, but I think this Elevation shakeup has potential.

    Quotes like this inspire some hope, especially since I consider the Centro the best Palm device in years (ignoring the "old OS" part). And for devices like the 800w, Rubenstein's influence can only have more of an impact, any of which I would consider better than the old mentality at Palm.
    In mid-July, as Palm Inc. was putting the finishing touches on its new $99 Centro smart phone, the gadget's development team received a stark message: It wasn't good enough.

    ... Mr. Rubinstein wasn't happy with the Centro's final touches, so he ordered several Palm executives to get on a plane to Asia to work more closely with the company's contract manufacturers. He asked product managers to look at details that hadn't been discussed before, such as whether the Centro's keyboard could be easily viewed in bright sunlight.

    "Given the aggressive schedule we had for the product, there was a general sentiment on the team that it'd be hard to pull everything off," says Rob Katcher, a Palm senior product manager. "But Jon wasn't going to compromise on quality or schedule."
    As for the layoffs, I find any criticism of it, without detailed information on who was laid off and their abilities, dubious.

    For years, people around here have criticized every aspect of Palm: Advertising (they just don't get how to sell it), Design (they don't understand sexy), Engineering (they can't even fix their own OS), etc.

    Now when the company actually lays off people (and don't forget, aggressively hires replacements for key positions), we somehow have to assume only the good people at Palm we canned. Fact is, we don't know but I'm willing to believe some of these people were not what Rubenstein wanted for the future direction of Palm--I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here. Or rather, I trust his judgment more so than people on this board.
    Mr. Rubinstein also cleaned house. Within a month, he had identified some key engineers at the company who were promoted, say Palm executives. Some senior executives left, including Michael Farese, a senior vice president of engineering.

    At the same time, Mr. Rubinstein began recruiting new talent. Some senior positions have been filled. An Adobe Inc. executive, Pam Deziel, joined Palm last month as vice president of software product marketing.

    Overall, Palm's hiring process has sped up, with candidates now meeting with six to eight people instead of more than a dozen, says Stephane Maes, Palm's vice president of smart-phone product marketing.
    That is exactly what Palm needed. Now the question remains will it pay off and were these the right decisions? No one knows, but it is better than before.

    I guess I'm just surprised that when Palm finally starts to "clean house" and get new blood, it is also criticized. Ignoring the "too little too late" quips and the anger towards Colligan, these decisions at Palm recently are their best hope in years.

    It should be exciting to watch in the next year how it progresses. Either way, I feel a lot better about the 800w now that Rubenstein and his team are overlooking every aspect of it and if that scrutiny results in a Quarter delay, so be it. Better to have them nail that device instead of just a rehash, minor upgrade to the 700wx.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/15/2007 at 04:15 PM.

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  3.    #43  
    I will be frank. I find the cheerleading and defense of palm's situation here, without detailed information regarding how their incompetencies will be eliminated in the future, to be dubious. Palm is deserving of criticism. I do NOT need to explain myself as to why that is so. One can try criticize others for criticizing palm as much as he wants, but until palm proves they can CONSISTENTLY lead the pack, the jury is out, and any support for such a precarious company is by definition, dubious.

    Apple turned it around, but just because apple did it doesn't by definition mean palm will do so as well.

    Ill believe it when I see it. Plain and simple. End of story.
  4.    #44  
    I trust what I have seen happening at palm for myself more so than I do the posts of some of the palm cheerleaders on this board.

    I'll recognize progress when and if palm recaptures a semblance of its former luster, but until then, I view them as a company on incredibly shaky ground. Based on the business "acumen" displayed with their past decisions and strategic missteps, they lend one precious little assurance that strong stewardship will be demonstrated going forward. They have quite a bit to prove and a rather large mountain to climb, and any realistic individual will acknowledge that.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome View Post
    First, welcome to Treocentral. Second, I guess I can safely assume that you are not an Ed Colligan fan.
    I was.

    Of course, we can dispute how accurate the WSJ story is. Perhaps it is just a spin that Palm is putting on to save Colligan's face.
    That is exactly the case, although the spin is likely on Ed's end.

    Nevertheless, I showed you my research. Where is yours?
    I worked with the man for years. You can choose to disregard what I say - that's definitely your perogative. But the reality is that I've seen his performance first-hand. It's not impressive.

    - Strange Engine
  6. #46  
    Nobody is cheerleading palm here. Just because I don't share your pessimistic outlook of palm, and now I am a cheerleader?

    I have been a long-time palm user and I currently have a 755p. I have used many other mobile devices before, but I always came back to palm. Sure, the treo is not perfect, no device is, not blackberry, not iphone, not Q. I use palm because its devices meet my needs and solve my problem, and that's why I continue to support palm. If that make me a cheerleader, then so be it.
    Last edited by Rome; 12/16/2007 at 12:57 AM.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by strangeengine View Post
    I was.



    That is exactly the case, although the spin is likely on Ed's end.



    I worked with the man for years. You can choose to disregard what I say - that's definitely your perogative. But the reality is that I've seen his performance first-hand. It's not impressive.

    - Strange Engine
    Sounds like you had a falling out with Ed. How about a real-life first-hand story that illustrates Ed's incompetence?

    Do you know Jon Rubenstein too? You appear to think highly of him. He certainly has an impressive track record.
  8. #48  
    I see the Sprint Centro "multitasking" commercials and i can only shake my head.

    Exactly who are they targeting? My wife (probably a prime target..not really a smartphone user but interested), was like "huh?" Just imagine the person who designed that advertisement selling that to palm and sprint. This was real money spent on that and they actually approved that garbage.

    You really got to think of the market as 6 year olds and simplify it. Show off that texting app. Show someone taking a pic and sending it. Show someone using pockettunes, slingbox, etc. Have to get those new ones to think "wow, that's cool"

    Apple's commercials aren't genius, but they at least highlight what you can do on the iphone.
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I see the Sprint Centro "multitasking" commercials and i can only shake my head.

    Exactly who are they targeting? My wife (probably a prime target..not really a smartphone user but interested), was like "huh?" Just imagine the person who designed that advertisement selling that to palm and sprint. This was real money spent on that and they actually approved that garbage.

    You really got to think of the market as 6 year olds and simplify it. Show off that texting app. Show someone taking a pic and sending it. Show someone using pockettunes, slingbox, etc. Have to get those new ones to think "wow, that's cool"

    Apple's commercials aren't genius, but they at least highlight what you can do on the iphone.
    i have freinds that are looking forward to upgrading their phones for work
    we were watching the game tonight when the centro commercial came on and and my friends were all like it does multi tasking. so i gave them my 700p and said show me how to multitask.
  10. #50  
    Multitask on Palm OS??

    Anyway I never saw the commercial but it sounds like they missed the mark on good advertising again. BTW, I barely ever see Treo ads much, which also doesn't help.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #51  
    C'mon, if you have seen the commercial you would have realized they don't mean the OS can multi-task (which would have been an awful commercial) but rather you can do more from your phone now "on the go" like email, docs, IM, etc. I'm just saying, if you've seen that ad and you still think they're saying the OS multi-tasks, you're either too cerebral or can't view for comprehension.

    Here is the "more you" commercial, which I find quite entertaining--not great but certainly bars above any other Sprint commercial (although "connectile dysfunction" was pretty funny). There is a second commercial which is more direct about the Centro, talking about the features like touchscreen, email, etc all for $99 and they have one for Red and one for Black.

    The ads have been running heavily on CNN, Discovery and MSNBC that I've noticed, especially in the evening. I actually like the new Sprint themed commercials boasting their fast network and the graphics are much better than the old yellow with black junk.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/17/2007 at 09:26 AM.

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  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    The ads have been running heavily on CNN, Discovery and MSNBC that I've noticed, especially in the evening. I actually like the new Sprint themed commercials boasting their fast network and the graphics are much better than the old yellow with black junk.
    I also like the new Sprint ad push... at least *something* is happening... Even my teen-age son noticed the big uptick in Sprint ads. And then there is the Touch-NBC Heroes connection, which is also an attention-getter. So, yeah, Sprint finally figured out that it actually had to advertise to get customers, at least to fight back the stupid Sprint-fat-nerd image portrayed by all those Alltel ads...
  13.    #53  
    FWIW:

    Palm reports $9.6 million loss

    "Palm Inc., the maker of the Treo smartphone, reported a greater-than-expected $9.6 million loss in its second quarter. It also issued a dire forecast for the current quarter and said it would not offer guidance for future quarters. (MarketWatch) Palm shares dipped 11 percent, to $5.27, in extended trading after the earnings report. Palm's earnings were hit by delayed product launches, restructuring costs, and increased competition from Apple's iPhone and RIM's BlackBerry. "I've been very negative about Palm," said Global Crown Capital analyst Pablo Perez-Fernandez, "but today's report stunned even me."


    http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/business/58528
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    interesting on the date part[/URL] /
    I like this part in hat article:

    "Meanwhile, competitors Handspring and Sony are stepping into the limelight with new products. Handspring, for example, has developed a combination handheld and cell phone device called Treo that is slated for a January release. Some Sony handhelds include built-in MP3 players and remote controls."
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    I like this part in hat article:

    "Meanwhile, competitors Handspring and Sony are stepping into the limelight with new products. Handspring, for example, has developed a combination handheld and cell phone device called Treo that is slated for a January release. Some Sony handhelds include built-in MP3 players and remote controls."
    Goes to show, it only takes one innovative product to bring back a company. How it is managed after that, is another issue, lol.

    I thought the Palm investor call was quite revealing today.
    • Don't expect any revolutionary products till early 2009 (for new PalmOS)
    • "We’re done with adjustments. That’s not happening anymore."
    • Centro set a record for highest sell-through for Palm/a huge hit
    • Centro goes global this quarter; no 500w for US
    • Palm expects the next few quarters to not do well = transition phase

    Like I said, it'll be real interesting to see how Palm works through this--they are at least saying all the right things, lets see if they can act on it now. But it looks like even Google/Android don't do everything right either

    "Android SDK frustrating developers due to bugs, lack of documentation"

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  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Goes to show, it only takes one innovative product to bring back a company. How it is managed after that, is another issue, lol.

    I thought the Palm investor call was quite revealing today.
    • Don't expect any revolutionary products till early 2009 (for new PalmOS)
    • "We’re done with adjustments. That’s not happening anymore."
    • Centro set a record for highest sell-through for Palm/a huge hit
    • Centro goes global this quarter; no 500w for US
    • Palm expects the next few quarters to not do well = transition phase

    Like I said, it'll be real interesting to see how Palm works through this--they are at least saying all the right things, lets see if they can act on it now. But it looks like even Google/Android don't do everything right either

    "Android SDK frustrating developers due to bugs, lack of documentation"
    2009 is a long time from now. If they have enough cash, and introduce some good windows devices, they can skimp through '08. Heck, maybe even pull off one more garnet device... a different treo with wifi or some other crap...

    I'm not a big fan of google, but launching a new OS is a rather difficult undertaking... if it were easy, I think we would be using Palm OS version 7 or 8 by now.

    That is one reason why I'm so concerned with palm... one slip and they could burn...
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