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  1.    #1  
    So I was browsing through some FCC docs this evening in an attempt to find out the internal specs of the Centro. In the FCC filings, there is an interesting .pdf called: TCB Q and A

    It's basically emails between Palm and the FCC and lots of interesting tidbits...lets see if we can find any more:
    • Gandalf/Gryphon was the Centro's code name (yes, it was both)

    This request is also applicable to our upcoming submissions of FCC ID# of O8F-728, O8F-715 and MSQ-777 (Asus is Palm’s ODM on this one)
    Here are the following FOUR current Projects of Palm
    Gnome FCC ID O8F-728
    Gryphon FCC ID O8F-747
    Otto FCC ID MSQ-777
    Zeppelin FCC ID O8F-715 (This device needs to be submitted to FCC because it has the co-locating WiFi and radio) <--
    • Otto is most likely the Treo 500w as that was it's codename found earlier (Surur?). And yes, Asus is the ODM on the project.
    • Gryphon = Gandalf = Sprint Centro 690
    • Gnome = GSM Centro 685 (see below)
    • Zeppelin = ? Treo 800w (cough, cough)

    Anyone catch that bit for "Zeppelin" up above?! "...the co-locating WiFi and radio"
    2. What is the current review status of Zeppelin? Are we ready to submit? The FCC’s review lead-time, last time I was told, could be 3 months.
    3. What is the current review status of Otto? Has the TCB review done?
    4. I need Mike to provide my all the ST and LT confidentiality letters for all 4 models.
    5. I now decide to let Sporton take all the internal pictures then forward them to CCS. I trust that has been done and the photos are now with CCS.
    The model name of IC:3905A-747 is Centro 690 .
    The model name of IC:3905A-728 is Centro 685 .
    Cool, eh? All that info right under our noses the whole time (well, at least from October...)

    Note: searching those FCC ID numbers turned up nothing, which I would imagine is confidentiality? Anyone find anything else?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Update

    Photo from Documents showing Device Names/FCC IDs

    --> http://tinyurl.com/2fa3ye

    --> http://tinyurl.com/2dgr6d
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/11/2007 at 03:55 PM.

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  2. #2  
    Execellent find!!
    I find it sad/odd that people ask to be thanked. How genuine is it when you have to ask? It's like forcing your kid to call Grandma, to thank her for the new underwear she sent for their birthday.

    "To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
    -Jack Handy, SNL-


  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    SNIP
    Geek.

    But thanks for taking out the tedious work of looking over crappy FCC docs for me.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    the co-locating WiFi and radio
    Sorry to be stupid, but what does this phrase actually mean?
  5.    #5  
    marcol,

    not stupid at all...

    I take it to mean the Wifi and Radio share the same circuit/antenna in the device.

    BUT...as my head hit the pillow late last night it occurred to me: Maybe not the 800w...but the Foleo?

    Reasons...it had Wifi and I believe that email was pre-cancellation; it also sounds like it is the exception--like "oh it needs FCC b/c it has Wifi".

    So the key here is what they mean by "radio"--cellular or BT?

    On many devices, like the Mogul, BT and Wifi share the same antenna (co-located?) and the Foleo had Wifi and BT too.

    So that is an alternative, less exciting explanation ;-)

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  6. hkklife's Avatar
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    #6  
    The Fooleo was already dead in the water by October-ish, though. I'm still thinking it was/is the 800w.

    Now, just because Palm DOES get certification for the 800w (presumably) having wi-fi, BT & cellular all onboard does that mean that it MUST be shipped with all of those radios and/or those radios enabled?

    For example, could Palm get the 800w certified with wi-fi and then disable it at the behest of Sprint but leaving the door open for some smaller, scrappier player like, say, Alltel to spec an 800w with wi-fi intact?
  7. #7  
    Very nice work. What's the submmsion dates of all 4 gadgets? From there we can guesstimate the EAT of the 800w.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Very nice work. What's the submmsion dates of all 4 gadgets? From there we can guesstimate the EAT of the 800w.
    Reading through it (and I was only looking for GSM Centro stuff), it looks like the submission date for the GSM and CDMA Centro was the same day.
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
    -Robert Maynard Hutchins


    Palm Pilot 1000 -> Philips Nino -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Alltel Kyocera 7135 -> Cingular Treo 650 -> AT&T Blackjack II -> AT&T Treo 750 & Epix
  9. hkklife's Avatar
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    #9  
    I think the "delay" on the GSM Centro release/announcement is due more to political/$ arrangements with Sprint than it is a technical or certification delay.

    I would expect Palm to announce the GSM Centro or a US version of the 500 in January/Feb timeframe. Palm likes to make post-holiday announcements--IIRC, the i705 & 700w were both announced in January.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Very nice work. What's the submmsion dates of all 4 gadgets? From there we can guesstimate the EAT of the 800w.
    Thanks.

    Unfortunately, the answers to those questions listed in the 1st post e.g. "have we submitted...?" were not shown in the file, so I'm not sure on any exact dates.

    According to jrinehart: February is the target date for the 800w, which is the push-back time form Q4 2007. Sprint seems to be doing a lot in Q1 2008
    • Launching EvDO Rev A (also pushed back from 2007)
    • Enabling GPS on Touch, Mogul and possibly Centro
    • Soft launching (or continuing) of Wimax

    One thing is certain: Treo 690 and 685 (Centro/GSM Centro) were submitted at the same time and cleared. That means AT&T is sitting on the device either clearing their own certs and/or waiting for Sprint's "exclusive" to end--I'm betting on the latter, as GSM seems fairly easy to certify compared to CDMA.
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    The Fooleo was already dead in the water by October-ish, though. I'm still thinking it was/is the 800w.
    True, but the email cited was dated July 11th, which is what caught my eye. Foleo was killed Sept 4th.
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    Now, just because Palm DOES get certification for the 800w (presumably) having wi-fi, BT & cellular all onboard does that mean that it MUST be shipped with all of those radios and/or those radios enabled?

    For example, could Palm get the 800w certified with wi-fi and then disable it at the behest of Sprint but leaving the door open for some smaller, scrappier player like, say, Alltel to spec an 800w with wi-fi intact?
    Absolutely. In fact, in the 800w thread "Treo 800w. I just held one", poster Jrinehart who supposedly has access said this in November:
    Quote Originally Posted by jrinehart View Post
    320x320: Yes
    Wifi: ATM no (edit: ATM= at the moment)
    More RAM? Yes, 256mb
    Faster Processor? ATM, Yes 400mhz
    Thinner? Yes, half way between the Touch and 755p
    So if that is accurate, then Palm was planning on Wifi but "someone" may have nixed it. Supposedly the same with GPS--Palm wanted "full" GPS and Sprint wanted aGPS (although what exactly is meant by either, since they overlap greatly, is not at all clear to me).

    Why is this significant? According to the OP in that thread (Howicam) back in September he said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by howiecam View Post
    Everyone will probably say I am making this up.. I don't have many posts, etc.

    My friend is software engineer for pda software company. Tonight he showed me the treo 800w that will be released on Verizon b4 christmas... if it is not delayed as many verizon releases lately.

    It Does have builtin wifi...
    So obviously...
    • Something happened/changed to Wifi on the 800w
    • One or both posters are wrong

    The investigation continues...

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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    One thing is certain: Treo 690 and 685 (Centro/GSM Centro) were submitted at the same time and cleared. That means AT&T is sitting on the device either clearing their own certs and/or waiting for Sprint's "exclusive" to end--I'm betting on the latter, as GSM seems fairly easy to certify compared to CDMA.
    I'm hoping that you're right, because that would mean that Sprint's exclusive expires on Saturday, 12 January 2008. It would be nice if AT&T released it the next day, but I'd settle for Monday the 14th...
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
    -Robert Maynard Hutchins


    Palm Pilot 1000 -> Philips Nino -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Alltel Kyocera 7135 -> Cingular Treo 650 -> AT&T Blackjack II -> AT&T Treo 750 & Epix
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    I'm hoping that you're right, because that would mean that Sprint's exclusive expires on Saturday, 12 January 2008. It would be nice if AT&T released it the next day, but I'd settle for Monday the 14th...
    lol

    I swear, if AT&T can't clear that device after that many months Between all of those leaked shots of the AT&T version, including someone who had a full review of it (!) but got pulled by Palm, it has to be ready to launch...

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  13. #13  
    Does Palm really want to let Vzn launch a new phone while Vzn still have problem clearing the old phone? Give the exclusive to Sprint please!
  14.    #14  
    Small Update

    Foleo never went by "Zeppelin" as a project name and it had several, including "Hollywood" (which is just funny for those who remember that one). However, it would have eventually required FCC approval.

    I feel more comfortable saying "Zeppelin" (FCC ID O8F-715) is not the Foleo and most likely the 800w.

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  15. hkklife's Avatar
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    #15  
    Mal;

    Not doubting you at all but I could've SWORN that "hollywood" was the Treo 750!?!

    How/where do you find confirmation of Palm project code names? I recall a website compiled them several years back ("Oslo" etc) but it pretty much was onsolete past the 2004-era PDA releases...
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by hkklife View Post
    Mal;

    Not doubting you at all but I could've SWORN that "hollywood" was the Treo 750!?!

    How/where do you find confirmation of Palm project code names? I recall a website compiled them several years back ("Oslo" etc) but it pretty much was onsolete past the 2004-era PDA releases...
    Oh I know...that's why I got a kick out of Hollywood not being the 750 but instead Foleo (or maybe to be safer since the Foleo had numerous code names, it was Hollywood at one point as well as the 750, but never at the same time)

    Who told me this? Can't say, but someone on the inside and a 100% confirmed/trusted source.

    If you look in my first post, near the bottom, you'll see the how I got the project name for the GSM Centro. For the Sprint Centro, those code-names were floating around, but they are all over those emails in reference to the Centro project.

    Otto was actually outed awhile back by I believe Surur. Updated: Yup, read here

    --> Will the new Palm Euro smartphone be called ... Otto?.

    Since the documents refer to that project as Asus being the ODM, that means
    • Treo 500v = Otto = Asus/Palm device = Confirmed/Released
    • FCC Otto = Asus/Palm Device = Treo 500w US Version (?) = mostly Confirmed

    Hope that makes sense...
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/11/2007 at 04:22 PM.

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  17. hkklife's Avatar
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    #17  
    Remember the GSM Centro hands-on report from last month that was very quickly & quietly yanked? It mentioned the GSM Centro having native voice dialing. Anyone know if this is correct and if so, is this a "standard feature" or is this some monthly service like Sprint's that dings you with a subscription?

    I also think it's funny that Palm has seemingly seen fit to include a 1.3mp camera on the EDGE-based GSM Centro, yet when the 680 launched they said that VGA was sufficient due to the slow upload speed of 1mp+ images. Hmmmm......
  18. #18  
    Major props on all this investigative work Mal . One thing that I noticed is the fcc id for the Gryphon, Gnome, Zeppelin all have a similar notation as opposed to the Otto. Maybe who ever makes the Centro could possibly be making the 800w, either that or it's just a coincidence since they were submitted to the fcc at the same time.
    Last edited by untouchablez; 12/11/2007 at 05:03 PM.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by untouchablez View Post
    Major props on all this investigative work Mal . One thing that I noticed is the fcc id for the Gryphon, Gnome, Zeppelin all have a similar notation as opposed to the Otto. Maybe who ever makes the Centro could possibly be making the 800w, either that or it's just a coincidence that they were submitted to the fcc at the same time.
    Thanks...yeah, it was fun to actually uncover all of this.

    Here's what I learned about those FCC IDs and I was going to post, since it is pretty interesting:

    The first 3 digits are the Company's ID--the remaining are the product ID.

    So in this case: O8F = Palm; MSQ = Asus

    That's why the "Otto" is MSQ--it's actually an Asus device re-branded by Palm, which is exactly what the Treo 500v was speculated to be (see the 500v thread here for info).

    Centro is actually built by Inventec with a lot of internal design done by Palm. Palm is also using Chi Mei Communication Systems (CMCS) for newer CDMA devices in 2008 instead of HTC. But when it comes to FCC filings, Palm files under their name if the device is OEMd but not if it's a straight re-brand (ODM)

    Now, who will do the 800w? Good question I'm hoping Inventec does the 800w or at the very least, all the hardware gains in terms of quality, translate over to the 800w.

    But if the "Zeppelin" is the 800w then you know it is not a re-brand, but a Palm designed device, which is what I would expect.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 12/11/2007 at 05:13 PM.

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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Can't say, but someone on the inside and a 100% confirmed/trusted source.
    Please, please, please tell me that your 100% confirmed/trusted source has said the GSM Centro will be here before the end of January. My 650 is getting LONG in the tooth and limping along, and I'm holding out as long as I can!
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
    -Robert Maynard Hutchins


    Palm Pilot 1000 -> Philips Nino -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Alltel Kyocera 7135 -> Cingular Treo 650 -> AT&T Blackjack II -> AT&T Treo 750 & Epix
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